Woods Stump Grinder

[daBear]

Why is it that, I don't even know this equipment exists, let alone think I need it, and then I go to TBN and start glancing through threads, and find a new piece of equipment that I just have to have, and all of a sudden I can't do the job without??? :laughing::laughing::laughing:

We are here to help. Remember a tractor is just a motor, transmission, and a hydraulic pump with some big tires on it. Attachments are what make it great.

 

[Piston]

For you guys that have used your stump grinders for a while now, would you do anything different knowing what you know now?

I'm about to clear about 5-8 acres of smaller sized trees from my land, and I'm curious if you guys would recommend cutting the trees, and grinding the stumps. Or knocking down the trees roots and all with a machine, or renting a mulched to clear? Any thoughts?

 

[foggy1111]

For you guys that have used your stump grinders for a while now, would you do anything different knowing what you know now?

I'm about to clear about 5-8 acres of smaller sized trees from my land, and I'm curious if you guys would recommend cutting the trees, and grinding the stumps. Or knocking down the trees roots and all with a machine, or renting a mulched to clear? Any thoughts?

I think allot of your questions are going to need some clarification to get a good answer.

1. Do you have rocks? Stump grinders dont like rocks
2. Hardwood or Softwood Stumps? Softwoods go three times faster "+"
3. What diameter trees?
4. How many trees are you talking about? 100's 1000's 10,000's ???
5. Are you able to deal with the wood and /or the dozed stumps? Burn?
6. Are you planning to till the ground after tree removal?
7. Is your timber marketable?

At one time I had a muching operator take a look at my land. He would have cost me way more than I wanted to pay, and I still would have had stumps below ground. In my case the trees were harvested leaving me with lots of softwood stumps (red pine 12" - 14"). I'm not sure I would want to tackle 5 acres of timber cutting. Grinding stumps gets rid of stump disposal problems for me. I see you have a grapple....that solves lots of the issues.

You dont say how big the trees are. If they are 4" diameter you may be able to get a GOOD brush hog and grind 'em up. (?)

 

[Piston]

1. Do you have rocks? Stump grinders dont like rocks

Yes, I definitely do, quite a few rocks ranging from small fieldstone to large boulders.

Hardwood or Softwood Stumps? Softwoods go three times faster "+"

Both, mostly softwood, but everything is pretty small, mostly less than 12" dbh

How many trees are you talking about? 100's 1000's 10,000's ???

Hmmm, excellent question I really don't know. Certainly not 10,000, but probably more than a couple hundred.

Are you able to deal with the wood and /or the dozed stumps? Burn?

yes, not very conveniently, but yes, I look at the stump burning/decomposition as a long term thing. I know it's hard to get rid of them.

Are you planning to till the ground after tree removal?

No, I am planning to smooth it out for grass eventually, but probably leave whatever it is that grows for a while, and just keep it mowed once every couple months for a few years.

Is your timber marketable?

I don't THINK so. I don't believe there is enough there for it to be worth anything. Also, for any sawlogs that I do have, I will probably keep for myself for my own sawmill.
I have had the county forester out there to take a look a couple years ago, and he gave me some advice. I'm going to have him come out again as it is free, and see if he thinks it's worth me getting a consulting forester in there. :thumbsup:

 

[Reg]

For you guys that have used your stump grinders for a while now, would you do anything different knowing what you know now?

I'm about to clear about 5-8 acres of smaller sized trees from my land, and I'm curious if you guys would recommend cutting the trees, and grinding the stumps. Or knocking down the trees roots and all with a machine, or renting a mulched to clear? Any thoughts?

Basically "what foggy1111 said"
Perhaps before those questions;
What is your intended future use for the area ?
Are you more time & effort limited than ca$h limited ?

The option to "bury" stumps is something I would try to avoid - at ALMOST any cost, sink holes, subsidence, etc.
Large animals or tractors falling into holes, or even tipping suddenly 10 years later does NOT appeal to me.
Shallow depressions from SLOW decomposition of remaining roots is different, probably acceptable, unless you plan to build a barn or put in a road bed.

 

[Piston]

Intended future use is to eventually make it a combination of fields, lawn (about 2 acres around the homesite), and very thinned out woods transitioning to the forest behind it.
I'll probably have more time than money.

 

[Reg]

Intended future use is to eventually make it a combination of fields, lawn (about 2 acres around the homesite), and very thinned out woods transitioning to the forest behind it.
I'll probably have more time than money.

In that case hiring it out to someone with BIG equipment may not be optimal, for YOU (or me).
Yup, I'd grind 'em down, rake the chips around until they're lost, forget about it real soon.
Then in my dotage wonder why it looks all gently rolling, not at all flat the way it was 40 years earlier (-:
or if I hang onto my marbles, maybe fill the shallow depressions from time to time.

 

[foggy1111]

I was just showing a pic of a 1/2 acre area I cleared this summer. It was a nasty tangle of down timber and trees. Took out 30 trees and about 50 stumps (some from logging a few years back). Spread the top soil from my shed and now have a lawn area and a garden area. And....the dead / dying, good-for-nothing, jackpine wont fall on my shed!

Heres a pic.....still some hand-work to do.....but it was a mess in the past. Why dont you rent a grinder for a 1/2 day and see how it goes. I used a rented 25 HP grinder to take out 500 plus stumps before buying my 3 point grinder. Still....if I had rocks.....I dunno.....

 

[Reg]

Small rocks, say up to around baseball size, have just been loosened and spat out.
"Boulders" I haven't tried (yet) ... it MIGHT grind them, heck carbide teeth can do serious damage to rock, stone, concrete, etc., though it would be slow at best.
I suppose at some point if there are enough boulders that are big enough I would hire in a decent sized Ex.
Then I would be faced with the question of what to do about the stumps given that the Ex would be coming anyway.
That would depend on my disposal options, having them hauled out would co$t, burning them would take a while, it would have to be more space than I have here to do something like a root ball "fence" described in other threads.

 

[foggy1111]

Small rocks, say up to around baseball size, have just been loosened and spat out.
"Boulders" I haven't tried (yet) ... it MIGHT grind them, heck carbide teeth can do serious damage to rock, stone, concrete, etc., though it would be slow at best.
I suppose at some point if there are enough boulders that are big enough I would hire in a decent sized Ex.
Then I would be faced with the question of what to do about the stumps given that the Ex would be coming anyway.
That would depend on my disposal options, having them hauled out would co$t, burning them would take a while, it would have to be more space than I have here to do something like a root ball "fence" described in other threads.

I've got a few stump piles from the prior owners. I suppose these may be 10 to 20 years old....and still going strong. I do NOT see any advantages to digging out stumps for my land. I MUCH prefer grinding.....poof! It's GONE!

I dont think you would wear the carbide on rock so much....but chipping and breaking the teeth are likely with rock IMO. Still....I have not had tooth problems....except on rented grinders.

 

[LandGuy]

Here's the little project I'm working on currently. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a stump grinder for my Kioti CK35 HST (and, most important, learn how to attach, use, and maintain it) . . . or just rent the work out.

We have a 3-acre field with a 1-acre (or slightly less) area of trees and brush between the field and our house (the rest of our place is all deep woods). The trees are a mix of small, medium, and large trees and are mostly oaks (also a few pines and some other stuff). My project has been to remove the trees and have the field come right up to the house and a nice deck we have on that side of it. It would all be in grass, at least for a while.

I knew better than to even bother getting a quote from an excavator for this job. Also, I didn't like the idea of the wood getting impregnated with rocks, dirt, and sand---very hard to cut into firewood later. We depend heavily on firewood to heat our place.

So anyway, I've been felling the trees one by one and cutting them up into firewood. I'm getting all the terrific oak firewood I'll need for the next three years, and more to come that I'll try to sell.

But . . . when I'm done I'll have 1 acre of stumps, yuck. I'd guess 75 to 100 stumps, of all sizes. My soil is somewhat rocky (quartz---ouch).

The Woods grinder sounds appealing, but I wouldn't even know how to connect it to the tractor's hydraulics, and I can't find a word anywhere explaining the attachment/detachment process in step-by-step detail at the beginner's level. I've never dealt with the hydraulic hoses on my tractor, other than just using them to operate the loader, lol. I'm not a mechanic like you guys, but I can follow clear instructions and can use basic tools competently.

I've thought of buying a handlebar-type grinder too, but I dislike the idea of adding yet another engine to my menagerie. Also, I doubt if one of those would have the power to tackle a two-foot-diameter white oak stump. It would be nice to get more use out of my tractor, that's what it's for after all.

Maybe I should just hire somebody to grind all the stumps, a few at a time. Probably cost more than a grinder, though. Or buy or rent a small grinder for the small stumps, and hire out the grinding of the big ones.

My brother and I thought we might be able to make a bit of money removing stumps with a Woods grinder, if we had one. That could be a bonus down the line.

Thoughts? Thanks . . .

 

[foggy1111]

I'd forget about the handelbar grinders.....they are OK for one or two stumps....but they are not for what you want to do.

Given your situation.....I would look at renting a self-propelled 25 HP (minimum) stump grinder. The Vermeer or Rayco brands are pretty good grinders and are typically found at rental yards. I rented these by the day and the cost was about $150 plus gas. I could see you grinding from 25 to 75 stumps of hardwood per day - depending on how high the stumps are and the diameter. This would at least be a good way to learn what is involved with stump grinding before you buy one.....but you could get your work done in a few days with a rental grinder.

You also could get a bid from a stump grinding company to do the work for you. If you find the right guy the price may not be as bad as you think.

The other alternative is to either learn how to get the grinder mated to your tractor (it ain't rocket surgery ) or have someone do it for you - like the guy you buy the grinder from. I think we'd have to know more about what you have for hydraulic couplers to know what it will cost to get it done.....but your tractor is capable of running the grinder.

You also mentioned ROCKS! Rocks and a grinder do not mix. If you have REAL rocky ground.....I would definately rent first.

 

[LandGuy]

Thanks, Foggy, those are some great suggestions.

The only hydraulic connections currently on my tractor are the four lines to the loader. I don't see any other available couplings, although it's probably easy to add them.

I'm so ignorant about this---I wouldn't even know how to uncouple the hydraulic lines from the loader---I'm afraid hydraulic fluid would spurt all over the place! I guess there's a valve, somewhere, that you turn before you do this? (Go ahead and have a good belly laugh on me, it's OK.)

I'd want to be able to attach and detach my grinder pretty readily, since I also use a bush hog, a landscape rake, etc.

I guess I could get some quotes on hiring the work out. Wouldn't hurt, although I'm continually amazed by the sums such contractors quote, even in the midst of the worst recession since the 1930s.

Renting may be the best option, as you say. I did rent a handlebar-type grinder years ago, and it did an OK job on average stumps, oak even. There's only me and the wife here now, so maybe the rental co. could deliver and pick up. I could knock out the smaller stumps myself and maybe hire somebody to handle the 15 or so really big stumps.

We have good soil but also hard-as-nails rocks, kind of a mixed blessing. And they have a bad habit of clustering right near stumps just under the ground. You're lucky to just have sand.

 

[foggy1111]

Thanks, Foggy, those are some great suggestions.

The only hydraulic connections currently on my tractor are the four lines to the loader. I don't see any other available couplings, although it's probably easy to add them.

I'm so ignorant about this---I wouldn't even know how to uncouple the hydraulic lines from the loader---I'm afraid hydraulic fluid would spurt all over the place! I guess there's a valve, somewhere, that you turn before you do this? (Go ahead and have a good belly laugh on me, it's OK.)

I'd want to be able to attach and detach my grinder pretty readily, since I also use a bush hog, a landscape rake, etc.

I guess I could get some quotes on hiring the work out. Wouldn't hurt, although I'm continually amazed by the sums such contractors quote, even in the midst of the worst recession since the 1930s.

Renting may be the best option, as you say. I did rent a handlebar-type grinder years ago, and it did an OK job on average stumps, oak even. There's only me and the wife here now, so maybe the rental co. could deliver and pick up. I could knock out the smaller stumps myself and maybe hire somebody to handle the 15 or so really big stumps.

We have good soil but also hard-as-nails rocks, kind of a mixed blessing. And they have a bad habit of clustering right near stumps just under the ground. You're lucky to just have sand.

If you go waaaay back to the start of this thread.....you will see how I coupled my hydraulic lines to my loader's joystick valve. I did this to operate both cylinders on the stump grinder.

You could do the same thing without spending a penny on hydraulic improvements to your tractor.....just hose and couplings. But you would need to remove your loader.....or prop up the lift cylinders when you operate the stump grinder.

Not really too difficult.....just takes a bit of reading and perhaps getting your dealer to help you out a bit. :thumbsup:

I can give you more info....but I gotta run right now.

 

[LandGuy]

Yes, I had read your description of that, Foggy. But it isn't detailed enough for a newbie, or at least this newbie.

Does the grinder's manual detail the process clearly enough for someone with no prior experience? I can work miracles with a decent manual.

 

[foggy1111]

Yes, I had read your description of that, Foggy. But it isn't detailed enough for a newbie, or at least this newbie.

Does the grinder's manual detail the process clearly enough for someone with no prior experience? I can work miracles with a decent manual.

Probably not. If you are as green as you say, I would get the dealer you buy the grinder from or a tractor savvy friend to help you out.

I'm not 100% sure if you have QD couplers for your joystick and I would have more questions. Ordering the right hydraulic stuff with the grinder is important....and you may need some additional hose and fittings to plumb things up. Someone with a little background in setting up this tractor stuff would have little difficulty.

Maybe another with your tractor model will chime in? But the dealer can easily install it for you the first time....and you should not have to spend too much for his services.

 

[Reg]

Here's the little project I'm working on currently. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a stump grinder for my Kioti CK35 HST (and, most important, learn how to attach, use, and maintain it) . . . or just rent the work out.

We have a 3-acre field with a 1-acre (or slightly less) area of trees and brush between the field and our house (the rest of our place is all deep woods). The trees are a mix of small, medium, and large trees and are mostly oaks (also a few pines and some other stuff). My project has been to remove the trees and have the field come right up to the house and a nice deck we have on that side of it. It would all be in grass, at least for a while.

I knew better than to even bother getting a quote from an excavator for this job. Also, I didn't like the idea of the wood getting impregnated with rocks, dirt, and sand---very hard to cut into firewood later. We depend heavily on firewood to heat our place.

So anyway, I've been felling the trees one by one and cutting them up into firewood. I'm getting all the terrific oak firewood I'll need for the next three years, and more to come that I'll try to sell.

But . . . when I'm done I'll have 1 acre of stumps, yuck. I'd guess 75 to 100 stumps, of all sizes. My soil is somewhat rocky (quartz---ouch).

The Woods grinder sounds appealing, but I wouldn't even know how to connect it to the tractor's hydraulics, and I can't find a word anywhere explaining the attachment/detachment process in step-by-step detail at the beginner's level. I've never dealt with the hydraulic hoses on my tractor, other than just using them to operate the loader, lol. I'm not a mechanic like you guys, but I can follow clear instructions and can use basic tools competently.

I've thought of buying a handlebar-type grinder too, but I dislike the idea of adding yet another engine to my menagerie. Also, I doubt if one of those would have the power to tackle a two-foot-diameter white oak stump. It would be nice to get more use out of my tractor, that's what it's for after all.

Maybe I should just hire somebody to grind all the stumps, a few at a time. Probably cost more than a grinder, though. Or buy or rent a small grinder for the small stumps, and hire out the grinding of the big ones.

My brother and I thought we might be able to make a bit of money removing stumps with a Woods grinder, if we had one. That could be a bonus down the line.

Thoughts? Thanks . . .

I'll give it a try (-:
It is just another PTO 3 pt implement, so whatever knowledge/experience you have/lack with regard to hooking those up will apply - EXCEPT;
This is minor, but on your relatively small and narrow tractor it would probably HELP to assemble it with the lower pins facing INWARDS. You would have to slacken off your check chains and swing the lower arms IN to hook up and then OUT to adjust side to side slack. This adds a little bit more hassle to hook-up/unhook, but at a guess you would have to do it anyway for tire clearance.

It would be NICE to have at least 3 pairs of hydraulic outlets at the back of the tractor.
These are a good investment for all sorts of other reasons anyway, so maybe their cost shouldn't all be allocated to the stump grinder project.
Why 3 ?
One for swing, one for depth, one for hydraulic top link.
STRICTLY - you don't "NEED" the hydraulic top link, but PRACTICALLY it can make a HUGE difference to the practicality of stump grinding, especially when you are grinding up/down slopes.
I wouldn't even consider using the loader lines for this, I like to make minor fwd/back tractor position adjustments while grinding by rolling/dumping the bucket - having put the weight of the tractor's front on the bucket edge before starting.

I might as well stress this right now;
When you get into stumps there will be voids, embedded rocks, stone, gravel, etc. The grinder will vibrate, bump & rock the tractor, it may even stall it.
This is no time to be on a side slope, so my SOP is Up or Down slope, not across.
A few degrees may be OK, but anywhere close to the stability limit is not.

For the actual GRINDING ; I was advised by a guy that sells replacement teeth that the wheels on these grinders can wear very quickly if you take deep bites.
This is because they have only rim teeth, there are no face teeth.
So his advice was to limit the depth of cut, i.e. take a lot of small bites instead of a few large bites.
I have experimented a little bit with this. More small bites seems to take more time when things are going "clean", but does lead to fewer stalls when I run into voids/rocks, etc.
On balance, I think I am better off following the lots of small bites advice.
$700 or 800 for a new wheel is something I would like to defer as long as practical.

As far as "making back a few bux by hiring yourself out to others";
There are SO MANY threads on this theme, liability travel time, whatever all else.
IMO just about ANY task that involves trailering the tractor somewhere takes at least 1/2 day, so 1/2 day's fair pay plus costs needs to be your minimum charge.
This is NOT the suburban lawn/yard "mowing and blowing" model, i.e. you will not be working at one place for 1/2 hour, then 3 houses down the road for another hour and doing a "route".
Search other threads for this, ONE impact is that in many/most places as soon as you deliberately load up your trailer to go do a job for money your truck insurance needs to become a commercial policy. Plate/tag fees may change too, just read ALL the threads on this before launching into it - AND do your own research for your locale, how all this applies to YOU, etc.
Some of it may be moot if you already have commercial registrations and liability insurance for other reasons.

BTW, at a guess a used Woods TSC-50 in good condition could be about $2,000.
Installing a block of 3 or 4 Prince hydraulic valves and outlets, somewhere around $500 - again, not all of this needs to be allocated to the grinder project, though "top and tilt" might suddenly look very attractive once you have the hydraulics (-:

 

[LandGuy]

That's a fine post, Reg. I appreciate the effort you put into it. It helps persuade me that maybe a grinder isn't for me. And of course, you're totally right about the many pitfalls of doing that sort of work for hire.

Even very appealing, well-made mechanical devices can turn out to be more trouble than they're worth. For example, it's hardly worth it to me to damage my tractor, or myself, just so I can grind some stumps.

I think I'll rent a "handlebar"-type grinder and take out the smaller stumps myself (I did this one before, long ago), and hire a contractor to grind the 15 or so big stumps I can't polish off myself.

 

[scottrh]

I'll give it a try (-:
It is just another PTO 3 pt implement, so whatever knowledge/experience you have/lack with regard to hooking those up will apply - EXCEPT;
This is minor, but on your relatively small and narrow tractor it would probably HELP to assemble it with the lower pins facing INWARDS. You would have to slacken off your check chains and swing the lower arms IN to hook up and then OUT to adjust side to side slack. This adds a little bit more hassle to hook-up/unhook, but at a guess you would have to do it anyway for tire clearance.

It would be NICE to have at least 3 pairs of hydraulic outlets at the back of the tractor.
These are a good investment for all sorts of other reasons anyway, so maybe their cost shouldn't all be allocated to the stump grinder project.
Why 3 ?
One for swing, one for depth, one for hydraulic top link.
STRICTLY - you don't "NEED" the hydraulic top link, but PRACTICALLY it can make a HUGE difference to the practicality of stump grinding, especially when you are grinding up/down slopes.
I wouldn't even consider using the loader lines for this, I like to make minor fwd/back tractor position adjustments while grinding by rolling/dumping the bucket - having put the weight of the tractor's front on the bucket edge before starting.

I might as well stress this right now;
When you get into stumps there will be voids, embedded rocks, stone, gravel, etc. The grinder will vibrate, bump & rock the tractor, it may even stall it.
This is no time to be on a side slope, so my SOP is Up or Down slope, not across.
A few degrees may be OK, but anywhere close to the stability limit is not.

For the actual GRINDING ; I was advised by a guy that sells replacement teeth that the wheels on these grinders can wear very quickly if you take deep bites.
This is because they have only rim teeth, there are no face teeth.
So his advice was to limit the depth of cut, i.e. take a lot of small bites instead of a few large bites.
I have experimented a little bit with this. More small bites seems to take more time when things are going "clean", but does lead to fewer stalls when I run into voids/rocks, etc.
On balance, I think I am better off following the lots of small bites advice.
$700 or 800 for a new wheel is something I would like to defer as long as practical.

As far as "making back a few bux by hiring yourself out to others";
There are SO MANY threads on this theme, liability travel time, whatever all else.
IMO just about ANY task that involves trailering the tractor somewhere takes at least 1/2 day, so 1/2 day's fair pay plus costs needs to be your minimum charge.
This is NOT the suburban lawn/yard "mowing and blowing" model, i.e. you will not be working at one place for 1/2 hour, then 3 houses down the road for another hour and doing a "route".
Search other threads for this, ONE impact is that in many/most places as soon as you deliberately load up your trailer to go do a job for money your truck insurance needs to become a commercial policy. Plate/tag fees may change too, just read ALL the threads on this before launching into it - AND do your own research for your locale, how all this applies to YOU, etc.
Some of it may be moot if you already have commercial registrations and liability insurance for other reasons.

BTW, at a guess a used Woods TSC-50 in good condition could be about $2,000.
Installing a block of 3 or 4 Prince hydraulic valves and outlets, somewhere around $500 - again, not all of this needs to be allocated to the grinder project, though "top and tilt" might suddenly look very attractive once you have the hydraulics (-:

Outstanding advice. Scott.

 

[Reg]

Oh, Ohh.....
I forgot my standard disclaimer.
None of the above may be construed as "advice" to either do or to not do what I have outlined... mumble, mumble, mouth full of marbles, accidental or deliberately ambiguous statements shall be taken to favor the author, mumble, mumble.
All risks and liabilities to be assumed by ...NOT ME... and whatever all makes sense.
Don't imbibe alcohol, don't use prescription, over the counter or illicit drugs while operating.

IOW - Others are responsible for whatever they do, it ain't my problem (-: