Will a DISK do me what I need??

[Sully2]

Landscaping small partials of my property..one at a time. Clay soil is HARD..and I do mean HARD. I have a SUPERB rear tine tiller ( walk behind model) thats a real dirt chopping SOB....BUT..on hard packed dirt...its a NO GO...barely scratches the surface..soooo I need something to break it up first!
A friend that has all sort fo attachments brought his 6 ft roto-tiller over and we started in...but with a 35 hp gasser Ford tractor thats a LOT heavier than my B3030 Kubota...that thing SHOVES him all over the place and he has to STAND on the brakes to hold it back. But his larger tractors are too large to get in and arund my existing trees..etc . ( Sorry for the LONG post fellas!) Each time that tiller hits a hidden tree root..or a baseball rock under the dirt..its kinda like ..LOOK OUT! And guys..I dont want that!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Im thinking I should buy ..about a 5-6 foot set of disks! Chopper type serrated disks on the front..rear "smooth" disks..etc..made for the size tractor I have ( compact)...but here is the question ( finally...lol)

Will a set of "disks"..cut...chop..etc the soil .."eventually" into FINE particles...realizing of course the soil has to be DRY...etc...but with "enough" passes..back and forth..can it get it chopped up "super fine"? That way "basic" soil prep could be done..and any "small" spot I wish to make a "planting bed" fr flowers / shrubs..I can always come back with the "super dirt eating walk behind" and REALL make it into "potting soil" quality.
And ..being the "tight a**" I am..I can get by with about a 5-7 hundred dollar purchase as compared to say a $1200-1800 purchase.
Be straight with me here guys..Im in totally unknown territory here...so dont tell me I need an "ABC" just because YOU have an "ABC".

I might also add..that TIME to do the job.doesnt mean anything. I dont care if it takes 5 hours to do a "1/2 acre" in disking.

 

[beenthere]

My answer, for what it is worth, is NO

Get a sub-soiler tooth and work it up, then use a tiller.

For the tiller pushing the tractor, and throwing things, my response would be to "slow down" and operate at a shallower depth. A tooth ripping up the clay ahead of the tiller ought to work. Getting some organic matter worked into the hard clay is likely the final goal for you to get good soil in those places.

 

[Sully2]

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[RobJ]

I agreee, you need to sub soil it first to break it up. $130 or so for that. Then if you need/want a disk, you can use it to break it up. Going over it several time will make it nice and soft. I go with some faster speed to give the soil a bit more air time. I think you can get a little 4-5' disk for under $500.

 

[GATC35]

Yep 'beenthere' is correct. All a disc will do on hard pack clay is bounce around. You could add several hundred pounds of weight but it probably still won't work as desired. You could also use a box blade with the rippers down.

 

[Sully2]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I agreee, you need to sub soil it first to break it up. $130 or so for that. Then if you need/want a disk, you can use it to break it up. Going over it several time will make it nice and soft. I go with some faster speed to give the soil a bit more air time. I think you can get a little 4-5' disk for under $500. )</font>

THANK YOU for a direct answer..LOL

Tried a subsoiler for buring water/electric lines in the back yard. My buddy told it that Id never pull it. Sank it in about 10 inches..and spun all 4 tires like one of those pulling tractor...NO TRACTION. In fact..I loaned it to him on a permant basis..and he used it to subsoil a field he has grown tobacco in for almost 20 years..but hadnt been subsoled in about 5 he said..he sunk it in full deptch..and with his 80 HP International was blowing black smoke ..it was tough for HIM to pull it full depth. Subsoiler is OUT!

WEIGHT isnt any problem at all..I have a whole skid load of concrete blocks here..and if needed can get more..SHOULD the disk now bite deep enough..and Im only looking at say 3-4-5 inches depth...just enough to make th TOP loose..so I can "grade" a tiny bit..and to plant grass..etc.

 

[Sully2]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Yep 'beenthere' is correct. All a disc will do on hard pack clay is bounce around. You could add several hundred pounds of weight but it probably still won't work as desired. You could also use a box blade with the rippers down. )</font>

22 years ago when I had the place built...I used one of those little tiny "garden tractor" single sets of disks...with 6 concrete block on top. Pulled with a 12hp teenie tiny Kuota I had at the time..and then realized if I had BOUGHT a set of disks..Id never paid $1200 for a top of the line walk behind tiller!

 

[stevenf]

I'd have to agree with everyone else, I've got a 84" disc with 22" serrated disc on it, it is a 3pt and even with 600+ lbs on a disc weighing almost a thousand I don't think it would do by itself what you want to do. A subsoiler or heavy weighted chisel plow would work and then go back with the disc or tiller to break the clods up some more. I went with an 84" chisel with 7 shanks it does a very good job of breaking it up and then go back with my disc. With the soil hard enough and dry enough I'm sure the best reccomendation would be to wait for some rain and then sub soil or chisel it as it can be a real test even for my 90hp tractor in dry soil/clay. I'd love to have a tiller but the disc works and its cheap in comparison to a 84" tiller.
Steve

 

[Sully2]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'd have to agree with everyone else, I've got a 84" disc with 22" serrated disc on it, it is a 3pt and even with 600+ lbs on a disc weighing almost a thousand I don't think it would do by itself what you want to do. A subsoiler or heavy weighted chisel plow would work and then go back with the disc or tiller to break the clods up some more. I went with an 84" chisel with 7 shanks it does a very good job of breaking it up and then go back with my disc. With the soil hard enough and dry enough I'm sure the best reccomendation would be to wait for some rain and then sub soil or chisel it as it can be a real test even for my 90hp tractor in dry soil/clay. I'd love to have a tiller but the disc works and its cheap in comparison to a 84" tiller.
Steve )</font>

Hmmm? Now there's something to ponder..? Of course Im talking of a MUCH narrower set of disks..and with weight on top..get more PSI on the dirt surface..if you get my drift. Hmm..decisions, decisions..??

 

[stevenf]

I know it seems tempting to try it and I'll agree that I could probably pull a 12' disc without much trouble but since the disc rolls you'd have to weight it down a lot. My brother in law lives in the flat lands South of San Antonio and has a 10' pull type 11 shank chisel plow that he can't get in the ground if it hasn't rained in the last week and with my 7 shank I have to keep an eye on it that I don't bury my tool bar neither are weighted. On the disc I don't imagine that if I added another thousand pounds it would help much. I originally started with the disc and no chisel planting food plots around the ranch and if the soil was halfway damp I could after repeated passes get it in maybe 2" on some of it before I weighted it down I added two propane tanks full of water for weights and it made little or no difference in unplowed fields so I stopped, regrouped and started talking to folks on TBN and farmers around me they all suggested the chisel plow route and it has worked better then I had hoped. What used to take a month and never was plowed deep enough to really get the dirt to retain moisture now is chiseled down a foot to 18" and then disc smooth on top for the seed bed and can be done in two pretty long days ending with headlights. Here are a few pictures the one with the tractor was taken when we only had the disc the other one is taken not long ago with the difference in the fields visible I hope.
Steve

 

[stevenf]

OOPS the new picture didn't post
Steve

 

[Highbeam]

If you sink the subsoiler in all the way and you can't pull it with your tractor then why not try it shallower? I'm thinking that you should have been able to pull the ripper through a couple of inches deep no? You just bit off more than the 303 could chew. Round and round with the subsoiler a few inches deep and then go a little deeper.

Just the fact that you were able to sink that subsoiler tells me that your aren't dealing with concrete.

Sounds like you really want a disc. With enough weight and enough passes it may do the job. If you are truly cheap though then get your subsoiler back and try to rip it shallower.

 

[beenthere]

Sully2
You asked the question (see the title of this thread) and we tried to help and tried again.
But you have my permission to go ahead and buy the disk, and it won't hurt my feelings one bit. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I only wonder why you asked the question? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Have a good day.

 

[Sully2]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sully2
You asked the question (see the title of this thread) and we tried to help and tried again.
But you have my permission to go ahead and buy the disk, and it won't hurt my feelings one bit. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I only wonder why you asked the question? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Have a good day. )</font>

The REASON was at attempt to compare "performance" of a set of disks as compared to a rear roto tiller on bare hard ( semi hard..whatever) ground.

BTW..the poster that stated he was going too fast...he told me that when he looked at the speedomotor on his Ford..it said "1/6th" MPH...ahh..that aint "too fast"??

I have a wonderful..dirt gobbeling walk behind tiller ( that aint worth jack squat..STARTING OFF on the bare hard ground)..so I can do all my "final prep work" with that thing ( Hence the reason why small areas..one at a time. If I attempted to do the whole place at once..they'd find me dead of a heart attack back in the woods somewhere..lol) BUT..I need a impliment to chop roots ( grass; BIG weeds at times; small tree roots..and these dammed morning glorys...geeze!) and chop the upper ..about..4 inches of soil..before I ran the "dirt eating rear tine tiller" around and around.

And lets dont factor out COST either. I can buy what I think ( and am told is) a good set of disks for "around $600"..where as ( Im told again) a POS rear tiller will be $1200 AND UP

 

[wushaw]

I'm sure you have looked and priced both frame styles of disk harrows, the box and angle with the angle being the lowest priced and the easiest to deform and non-adjustable in most cases.
I would look at the adjustable box frame models just for more versitility and thaey also weigh more.

I will say I don't have any personal experience with either but as soon as I get all my parts I will with a homebuilt/copied with a twist adjustable box frame style.
I will be using serrated disk on both ft. and back to start out with to see if I like the results.

In conclusion you will never know if it will work for ya if you don't give it a whirl.

 

[Sully2]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm sure you have looked and priced both frame styles of disk harrows, the box and angle with the angle being the lowest priced and the easiest to deform and non-adjustable in most cases.
I would look at the adjustable box frame models just for more versitility and thaey also weigh more.

I will say I don't have any personal experience with either but as soon as I get all my parts I will with a homebuilt/copied with a twist adjustable box frame style.
I will be using serrated disk on both ft. and back to start out with to see if I like the results.

In conclusion you will never know if it will work for ya if you don't give it a whirl. )</font>

The only one Ive really looked over so far..is a "angle iron" model instead of box member. Front disk serrated and non-adjustable....rear set is smooth and IS adjustable. Mainly "glanced" at this model because of $$$. These arent tools I'll be usng every day or anything...Im not about to go into business doing this stuff... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I also look at if they didnt have a usage..a purpose..no one would be making the darned things. I see disks' post hole augers..etc..etc made for BX series ( sub compact) tractors...if they do what they are designed to do for those models...Im sure I can get "it" to work on mine??

Might wind up selling my walk behind and just getting a tiller for my B3030..?...maybe a 41/2 to 5 ft model...and then just get someone to break ground for me when I need it done???

 

[DannyD]

Why not plow it first, then disk, then till?

 

[Keith_B]

Sully, try a boxblade with the scarifiers all the way down.

 

[N80]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sully, try a boxblade with the scarifiers all the way down. )</font>

I agree. I'm currently doing that myself in very hard clay soil. I considered a disk too, but eventually figured that it would not penetrate sufficiently even with weight and a 45hp tractor.

I've been very successful with the box blade. I'm guessing but I'd say I'm getting a good 4-5" of penetration and it turns the soil fairly well too. The nice thing about the box blade is that it has so many other uses as well. So, more bang for the buck.

Several observations:

1) It sounds like your tractor may be too small for the job you have set for it.

2) The moisture in the soil makes a big difference, at least where I am. When really dry it is very much like concrete. When too wet it is sticky and goo-y. When just right, the BB turns it over quite easily.

3) If you are really interested in a disc, get one. If it doesn't work, sell it. You can probably get most of your money back.

Finally, it is my understanding that a disc is primarily for breaking up soil that has been plowed or turned over and not for breaking up 'virigin' dirt. Is that correct?

 

[kingoflawns]

We would use a cat 277 track machine with hydraulic front rototiller to bust that up, once over would set you up nice.