Why do you hate MTD?

BRIGUY · Apr 6, 2005

JINMA224XR

I have seen Briggs motors go a long time also.

But Every time I bring up a 17 year old machine I get something like this.

(
Brian:

Not for nothin', but all you've mentioned or shown is past history. Times change and so do the designs, styles and materials (of everything), not to mention the global economic factor.
You'll NEVER get the quality/longevity of your grandparents refrigerator today, period. )

( because all my neighbors have gotten at least one and some have gotten up to 3 new machines over the years and I still have to keep using my OLD,,, 17 Year OLD MTD .
)

What kind of machine do they have that is outlived by MTD 3 to 1????????

viking65 · Apr 6, 2005

Murray is a Murray...or should I say was a Murray. Murray recently declared bankruptcy. My local home depot was blowing out their Murray inventory and I asked why the Murray stuff was priced so low. The Home Depot guy said that "Murray declared bankruptcy but they are still answering their phones if you had a problem with one of their mowers"....well that's comforting to know.

GerardC · Apr 6, 2005

If I went to a manufacturer and wanted a price quote on 100,000 small engines I believe I would get a very good price. Most seperate small engines that are sold are sold at near retail price. 

You got it.

BRIGUY · Apr 6, 2005

O/K so at even 1/2 of dealer cost on the engine that still leaves about 300$ for the rest of the tractor.

Sounds about right.

GerardC · Apr 6, 2005

Can someone please enlighten me as to the constructive purpose of this thread? It seems to me that those who have had good luck with their MTD's are not going to be convinced otherwise and likewise for those who have had bad luck with their MTD's. What gives? 

MAYBE 1/10th of the posters that degrade MTD have responded to this thread /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif. It's here where they can tell us why they do.
I'd say most of the hate has to do with the B & S engine that MTD does not manufacture.
KOHLER engines are also available on MTD products which many believe is a far superior engine, and if someone has that engine in their MTD, I believe they haven't much to say about the MTD product itself.
My $.02

LBrown59 · Apr 6, 2005

( Hey Cummins,

I've been using mine for 17 years now, and the blasted thing just keeps on going.

**All my Neighbors have nice shiney new mowers now,,

but I still have to keep using my old,, 17 year old MTD mower. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Joe )

**That's cause they keep having to replace their wore out short lived MTDs.

You got the only good one -you lucky dog!

BRIGUY · Apr 6, 2005

( What kind of machine do they have that is outlived by MTD 3 to 1???????? )

LBrown59 · Apr 6, 2005

( JINMA224XR

I have seen Briggs motors go a long time also.

But Every time I bring up a 17 year old machine I get something like this.

(
Brian:

Not for nothin', but all you've mentioned or shown is past history. Times change and so do the designs, styles and materials (of everything), not to mention the global economic factor.
You'll NEVER get the quality/longevity of your grandparents refrigerator today, period. )

( because all my neighbors have gotten at least one and some have gotten up to 3 new machines over the years and I still have to keep using my OLD,,, 17 Year OLD MTD .
)

What kind of machine do they have that is outlived by MTD 3 to 1???????? )
***************
Must be the neighbors are having to buy 3 MTDs to keep up with his one.
Looks like he was the lucky one who got a good one.

JINMA224XR · Apr 6, 2005

What kind of machine do they have that is outlived by MTD 3 to 1 

Hey Brian,

I don't want to call out specific Brands, as I don't want to bash others, but I have seen this over the years.

I think what is happening is this:

Consumers that buy the lower end mowers at WalMarts, Lowes, Sears, Home Depot and other large chain/discount Stores, are the consumers that do not have a lot of money's(On Average), to spend on a Lawn Mower/Tractor. Also these same consumers do not have much maintenance/mechanical ability or/and the necessary incentive to read the owners manual for preventative maintenance that they can do themselves,, especially lubrication of the Tractor and the Engine. When something small goes wrong, then they usually overlook it or use some Duct Tape to Patch it or use some Super Glue, Wire, Odd sized bolts, or other such methods to keep their machine going a while longer. When the machine finally does lock up and will not go any further,, then they load it up and take it to the Lawn Mower Man/Repair Shop. He in turns charges full retail for the replacement repair Parts and at least that much or more for his labor. Which can result in a bill of about 2 to 300 dollars or more. Many choose not to repair the machine and then go out and buy another Nice Shiney New Mower.

Most of this can be avoided,, by not being afraid to change the oil, air filter and to grease the tractor properly with a grease gun. But this requires incentive and the willingness to get their hands dirty. Most consumers that buy the lower priced units from the Discount Stores are not willing to do this, PERIOD. Then when the unit fails to go,, then they say the very OLD PHRASE ( IT WAS JUST JUNK ).

I have had people to ask me,,, SHOULD I CHANGE THE OIL IN MY LAWNMOWER .... My reply is,"Only if you want it to LAST".

Now the other alternative is to buy a more expensive unit, and they will go much longer, WITHOUT, good preventative maintenance, but sooner or later, they will also need lubrication and maintenance also, or you will wind up with a broken down EXPENSIVE MACHINE .

If you did a survey, I am almost willing to bet, that hardly anybody has bothered to grease the transaxle on the LOWER PRICED UNITS, that do not have the ZERT fittings. It is not that difficult,, but it does take a special grease fitting and pressure does have to be steadily applied to force the grease into the axle housing.

All this has an absolute exception However, and there are also some machines that do roll out, that are defective from the getgo. There will be more of these defective machines on the lower priced units, than on the higher priced units, and I would say that is because of Quality Control. But that is just MY Humble Opinion.

Have a nice day,
Joe

LBrown59 · Apr 6, 2005

( What surprizes me is that no one has mentioned Murray . )
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
At least Murray doesn't put Cadillac badges on their Corvairs. [color]

LBrown59 · Apr 6, 2005

( What kind of machine do they have that is outlived by MTD 3 to 1 Hey Brian,I don't want to call out specific Brands, as I don't want to bash others, but I have seen this over the years. I think what is happening is this: Consumers that buy the lower end mowers at WalMarts, Lowes, Sears, Home Depot and other large chain/discount Stores, are the consumers that do not have a lot of money's(On Average), to spend on a Lawn Mower/Tractor. Also these same consumers do not have much maintenance/mechanical ability or/and the necessary incentive to read the owners manual for preventative maintenance that they can do themselves,, especially lubrication of the Tractor and the Engine. When something small goes wrong, then they usually overlook it or use some Duct Tape to Patch it or use some Super Glue, Wire, Odd sized bolts, or other such methods to keep their machine going a while longer. When the machine finally does lock up and will not go any further,, then they load it up and take it to the Lawn Mower Man/Repair Shop. He in turns charges full retail for the replacement repair Parts and at least that much or more for his labor. Which can result in a bill of about 2 to 300 dollars or more. Many choose not to repair the machine and then go out and buy another Nice Shiney New Mower. Most of this can be
avoided,by not being afraid to change the oil, air filter and to grease the tractor properly with a grease gun. But this requires incentive and the willingness to get their hands dirty. Most consumers that buy the lower priced units from the Discount Stores are not willing to do this, PERIOD. Then when the unit fails to go,, then they say the very OLD PHRASE ( IT WAS JUST JUNK ).I have had people to ask me, SHOULD I CHANGE THE OIL IN MY LAWNMOWER?My reply is,"Only if you want it to LAST".Now the other alternative is to buy a more expensive unit, and they will go much longer, WITHOUT, good preventative maintenance, but sooner or later, they will also need lubrication and maintenance also, or you will wind up with a broken down EXPENSIVE MACHINE .If you did a survey, I am almost willing to bet, that hardly anybody has bothered to grease the transaxle on the LOWER PRICED UNITS, that do not have the ZERT fittings. It is not that difficult,, but it does take a special grease fitting and pressure does have to be steadily applied to force the grease into the axle housing. All this has an absolute exception However, and there are also some machines that do roll out, that are defective from the getgo. There will be more of these defective machines on the lower priced units, than on the higher priced units, and I would say that is because of Quality Control. But that is just MY Humble Opinion.
Have a nice day,
Joe )
***************
and there are also some machines that do roll out, that are defective from the get go.
Joe
========================
That's my Power Craft > All the maintenance and lubrication in the world won't fix defects.
Preventative maintenance is a joke on a lemon-you can't prevent what has already happened.

BRIGUY · Apr 6, 2005

Joe,

In my opinion everything you stated is 100% correct.

If all I had was an old used MTD mower, I would maintain to the highest level. I would have to so it would last.

If a guy can not do his own service work do you think he is going to pay 150-200$ each year to have a dealer pick up his machine and service it, when the thing only costs 900$ new. No way. It's a hard sell.

I know people who have name brand lawn tractors and don't bat an eyelash at doing this. They know they are protecting there investment, preserving warranty, maintaining top performance, and keeping there piece of mind.

To further this do you think that the minimum wage guy with a pair of vice grips that assembles the Walmart machine does the same job as the factory trained Dealer does. So I would bet that many of these machines are not right from day 1.

Here again that is MTD's fault. it is yet another failure of quality control. They don't care if the machines last. If they did they would never let their products be assembled and sold the way they are.

By doing this they can sell as cheaply as possible and make $$$. They don't care If reputable dealers with good technicians go out of business and the guys that used to have good jobs with benefits loose there jobs. Then they go to work for Walmart with no benifits and my county taxes again soar to pay for medicaid.

Further the American mindset is further poisoned into thinking that dealers are ripping them off when they can buy a machine for 900 bucks. Plus rienforcing the throw away society thing. Leading to more waste disposal problems. Mever mind the amount of oil and resources wasted to churn out millions of cheap throwaway machines. Then to recycle or land fill them.

JINMA224XR · Apr 6, 2005

That's my Power Craft > All the maintenance and lubrication in the world won't fix defects.
Preventative maintenance is a joke on a lemon-you can't prevent what has already happened.


Hey LB,

In our State, we have a consumer line to the Attorney General. When all else fails, that is who we call. And then we also have the option to go to small claims court to collect our damages.

If all that fails, then on the Income Tax, there is a tax write off for Theft, and that might be an option as well or someother tax exemption that does not come to my memory. Your mower could also accidentally catch on fire, and would be covered by your HomeOwners Insurance. But of course that would have to be an accident. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif And it could come up missing, by accident also. Do you have any deep rivers or deep sand pitts? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You know the old saying,"Where There's a Will There's a Way". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

BRIGUY · Apr 6, 2005

My wife works for an insurance agent.

You know where this is going /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

So now because big business decides to make huge$$$$$$ selling throwaway products

people are going to be forced to recoup there losses on lemon equipment, by submitting fraudulent insurance claims.

Maybe I can start working more over time to pay higher premiums and my wife can take a cut in pay.

Doesn't really matter already have to work more to pay Medicaid tax increases due to the nations largest employers lack of benefits.

Funny thing I didn't hate MTD when this thread started.

JINMA224XR · Apr 6, 2005

To further this do you think that the minimum wage guy with a pair of vice grips that assembles the Walmart machine does the same job as the factory trained Dealer does. So I would bet that many of these machines are not right from day 1. 

Hey BriGuy,

WE are in agreement, and that is why I always prefer to assemble what I buy, myself, but when that is not possible,, when I get it home, I go behind them on everything, just to make sure of what they did or didn't do.

I now have a bigger tractor, that will be taking over for my 17 year old MTD, but making my little 12hp MTD last, has helped pay for the bigger machine that will do so much more.

I wish that I had the money to give people to get them out of jams, when they get into trouble, but the fact is, I'm just a poor country boy and It is all that I can do to keep my things going for as long as I can. My Motto has been to not be afraid to buy tools and do maintenance, maintenance, maintenance. I do make my own maintenance mistakes, but in the long run, I have came out. Don't be afraid to buy tools at Harbor Freight either, you can save a ton of money on tools,, they are not as good as Craftsmen, but they get the job done, for a whole lot less.

Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

GerardC · Apr 6, 2005

Brian:

It sounds to me like your more upset with the fact that MTD is a huge company that holds a tremendous amount of the market and you don't like the way they do business? They must be doing something right because they've purchased/bailed out several starving or bankrupt companies.

Companies are in business for one reason and one reason only, and that is to make money, period.

YUGO cars were junk, that is why you don't see them anymore. MTD seems to just get bigger. Hmmmmmm.

GerardC · Apr 6, 2005

They don't care If reputable dealers with good technicians go out of business and the guys that used to have good jobs with benefits loose there jobs. 

It's a cut-throat world out there today. Eat or be eaten!

LBrown59 · Apr 6, 2005

( Joe,

In my opinion everything you stated is 100% correct.

If all I had was an old used MTD mower, I would maintain to the highest level. I would have to so it would last.

If a guy can not do his own service work do you think he is going to pay 150-200$ each year to have a dealer pick up his machine and service it, when the thing only costs 900$ new. No way. It's a hard sell.

I know people who have name brand lawn tractors and don't bat an eyelash at doing this. They know they are protecting there investment, preserving warranty, maintaining top performance, and keeping there piece of mind.

To further this do you think that the minimum wage guy with a pair of vice grips that assembles the Walmart machine does the same job as the factory trained Dealer does.

 So I would bet that many of these machines are not right from day 1. 

Here again that is MTD's fault. it is yet another failure of quality control. They don't care if the machines last. If they did they would never let their products be assembled and sold the way they are.

By doing this they can sell as cheaply as possible and make $$$. They don't care If reputable dealers with good technicians go out of business and the guys that used to have good jobs with benefits loose there jobs. Then they go to work for Walmart with no benifits and my county taxes again soar to pay for medicaid.

Further the American mindset is further poisoned into thinking that dealers are ripping them off when they can buy a machine for 900 bucks. Plus rienforcing the throw away society thing. Leading to more waste disposal problems. Mever mind the amount of oil and resources wasted to churn out millions of cheap throwaway machines. Then to recycle or land fill them. )
`````````````````````
Case in point my Wards power craft.

Spiffy · Apr 6, 2005

The problems with cheap machines (and especially poorly maintained cheap machines that are subjected to way more than their intended use or abuse) are obvious, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't stop the cycle by blaming MTD.

As long as the consumers demand it, the void will be filled; maybe MTD is filling a slighty larger piece of the pie right now (and I do believe they've got a pretty good piece of the pie in decent machines too), but here's the real irony:

Let's assume that the people posting here [and also asume we're all intellegent informed types] convince the "average" consumer that all MTD products and affilliates [rightly or wrongly] are junk. Now, one of their competitors, just takes a larger piece of the junk pie and not only continues the cycle but then buys MTD and cheapens all of our favorite names even further.

Wouldn't our efforts be better spent educating the consumer to stop buying for looks or price; in turn forcing "corporate America" to bring back the quality we all miss....save the resources... save the landfills.....save the world from global destruction [ok I was serious, but had to get just a bit carried away! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ]. Once again, I've tried, ussually to no avail. Rather than pull my hair in angony, I then just relish how I'm surrounded by idiots supporting my favorite brand names through the purchase of junk.

Chad