Why a new compact ??????

[Woodbucher]

I have been shopping for a tractor that can finish mow do some loader work and gerneral purpose duty (load and pull manure spreader) I already own a allis D17 IV for the hard work and would like to add to the toy collection. I have been looking at the Deere 4410,Case Dx33,New Holland TC30 HST and a "RESTORED" Massey-Ferguson 135 all have front loaders and 3pt finish mowers and a cat I hitch. The new tractors are $17,000 to $22,000 and the M-F is $8500? The "OLD" tractor is the tractor that seems to have the edge for build quality. The new are lighter. Any response is helpful.
THANX Todd /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Todd,
I would generally say that the new tractors will be much more nimble with a tighter turning radius than most of the older tractors of similar hp. I can't really speak to the MF 135 because I've never played with one, I know what they look like but nothing more. So it is possible that it turns on a dime, but I suspect the opposite is true. For loader work a new tractor with 4x4 traction, power steering, a tight turning radius and HST is a wonderful thing.

Just my opinion.

 

[JDgreen227]

How many hours a year will you be using it? If the older tractor has had a lot of mechanical restoring done, not just cosmetic, and you will not put over 100-150 hours a year of use on it, that would be my choice. Once purchased, it's unlikely to depreciate as fast as a new tractor will. You are correct about the build quality of the older models, and when they do need repairs the capable owner can often fix the problem himself, which is untrue of some of the electronic and computerized new models.

If you will be using it for more hours or doing extensive loader work, I would spend the money for a new model. Does the Massey have power steering? Is there a repair shop or dealership nearby where you can get parts and service?

One of the best features of a new compact tractor is they are fitted with ROPS, seat belts, safety switches and the other assorted items that make their use safer. They have better and brighter lighting and easier starting, plus parts and service for most makes is easier to locate.

Other factors would be does the Massey have the type of tires you prefer for your use, and is it gas or diesel....you would likely want your choice to use the same fuel as your Allis.

Hopefully this post will give you some ideas. Good Luck.

 

[jinman]

Todd, the Massey-Ferguson 135 is a 30-yr old tractor, even if it is a 1974 Model (the last year of manuf. I think). The Perkins Diesel is the only "plus" I see to this tractor. The original cost of the MF-135 new was under $6,000. Even "restored" do you want to pay that much for a MF-135? In my opinion, the base MF-135 tractor would be a good buy for $4,500 to $5,000, but not $8,500.

Secondly, the tractor is not 4wd. All the other tractors you mentioned are new, 4wd, HST, and a dream to drive and operate. True, their weight and horsepower are less than the Massey, but being 4wd will more than make up for those features in my opinion. I don't know that much about the John Deere compacts, but I think the TC30 with loader and HST would be a good fit for you because it's more of a "traditional" tractor without a lot of bells and whistles in the operator's platform.

With any new tractor you'll also get a full warranty. What kind of warranty will you get with the MF? Will you finance it, and what kind of interest rate will you get? There are so many things to consider, but I think all the positives are on the side of buying new. I just would not want to spend that much money on a 30+ yr-old tractor. Good luck in your decision. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Theowegian]

Howdy.
Welcome to TBN.
You have a good question.
I also have an Allis D14 and use it alot for everything on my 7.5 acres. The reason Im going to purchase a compact utility tractor is:
1-safety features, ROP, seat switches, lights
2-want to do front end loader work
3-want 4 wheel drive
4-want better hydraulics and 3 pt hitch systems
5-want a Hydrostatic transmission
6-I want to have my family drive the compact and mow with it
7-want power steering
8-Im tired of running down parts for my D14. Literally, I spend more time working on this tractor than I do using it.
9-want modern ergonomics
10-want a diesel engine, instead of a gas engine, (torque, power, etc)
There are more reasons for me but those are the "biggies:.
Good luck and tell us what you decide.
dwight

 

[Woodbucher]

WOW THANX FOR THE FAST RESPONSE GUYS!!!!!!!
The M-F has a Perkin diesel,power steering , Koyker 210 loader and Ag tires that are not loaded. I would not have to take out a loan on the older tractor. Recently we have access to horse manure so I am looking at pto 85 bu spreaders and loader for the D17 Allis. The local dealer in used tractors has the M-F 135 on his lot when I went in for a loader price this is the same dealer I have been dealing with all along (All the dealers are with in a 20 mile radius and great to deal with). I currently put 40hrs a year on a JD 425 mowing the lawn, if I buy a new tractor it would replace the lawn mower.

 

[art]

Good thoughts boys, I like the 30 horse four wheel drive with loader for a fit here. I would look for a small chassis because of the mowing detail.

 

[yellowsocks93]

The Massey is a good machine and I have driven ours(gas model) a few times but when compared to my JD 990 there is no comparason. The compact will not get stuck, has more power, tighter turning radius and I don't see any advantages to getting the Massey over the compact besides price. The new compacts will handle the loader a lot better too. If you were just mowing or pulling a hay wagon the Massey would be fine but I think you are going to be happier with a new comapct.

 

[Atch4115]

Just another thought. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gifSome peoples idea of "restored"is fresh paint and a can of STP.

 

[Soundguy]

Just compairing the wheelbase of a MF 135 to my 8n or NAA.. I'm guessing about a 10' turn radious using brakes.

That said... the unit you buy should match the work. If it is occasional work... that lets you move into the used domestic and foriegn 9 grey ) market tractors.. and even the new imports.. like chineese. Interestingly enough... you can buy a new 20hp 4wd chineese tractor, with loader.. for the price of a 50's era ford with a power up/gravity down trip loader.. say a 600 or 8xx series.. or even aminty 8n or NAA... go figure.

just depends on what you want.

I like my antiques.. and I like tinkering with them.. I also like my 'new' NH diesel too...

Soundguy

 

[snowbound]

"Power up gravity down trip loader."

(((Shudder))).

I had forgotten about that thing but you had to remind me....

I vote for the modern conveniences. Even today when my super-modern safety interlock seat switch bothered me, I did not wish I had my brother's Powermaster 801.

And a good thing too. By coincidence, his tractor wouldn't start today either but it looks like he's going to have to replace a voltage regulator. I just had to plug back in a plug that came loose.

One of the reasons we went with New Holland is that my brother knows the local New Holland/Ford dealer really well on account of his 801. But it's sort of like my brother knows that dealer _too_ well because although his 801 is not in bad shape, there's a lot of stuff on there that is about due to wear out. It sort of comes down to my brother has the time to fix his old tractor and I don't. But I had the money to buy new and he didn't.

My uncle is probably coming to stay with us for a week or so because we're close to the hospital where my aunt is having surgery. Now he's a real old timer and has been farming for well over half a century. He had really old stuff back in the old days too. I don't know if we'll get around to talking about the new TC-35D tractor, but I think he'll be skeptical about it with its annoying little pieces of "value engineered" plastic that have gotten loose.

Until he drives it.

 

[RoyJackson]

"I currently put 40hrs a year on a JD 425 mowing the lawn, if I buy a new tractor it would replace the lawn mower. "

Not sure I'd want to run Ag tires on the lawn... I'm sure all of the tractors you listed in the original post are quite a bit heavier then your JD 425.

Don't get me wrong, I mow my lawn with a 2000 lb. Deere 670 (more if the Loader is on). I'm pretty sure most of the tractors you've looked at are quite a bit heavier then one ton. You might want to take that in consideration when you're making the decision.

A new or used B7500, TC24D or smaller 4xxx series Deere will probably be on the lower end of the price range you'd mentioned. Since you've already got a big machine for the hard work, a smaller CUT may be more in line with the work you have lined up for it. Even towing the manure spreader should be possible with one of the smaller CUT's.

 

[del]

I can't imagine buying a 2wd tractor or 2wd truck for
that matter.

I've had my trailer in too many situations where I
had to use 4WD in my truck to move the trailer where I needed it to go at least to go slowly and cafefully.

I've seen guys operating big 2WD tractors with loaders
like the Case 580. I think those were designed for
cleaning dirt off a paved street at a construction site
as a 580 on even a slight incline with wet grass is a
helpless beast.

Maybe they stopped making the 2WD's but I've been watching
lately as newer models come out and I have yet to see a
newer Case 580 or Cat backhoe that isn't 4WD.

Any kind of an incline doing loader work and there is
so much different with 4WD.

The little tractors I'm surprised they even make them in
2WD. I would think even the stress on the tractor would be
less with 4WD in some circumstances.

These compacts look kind of like toys until you start
using them and see what exactly they can do.

You can't of course use the used one for a day but you
might spend some time with a borrowed unit from a dealer
or a half day rental to decide if you want to go to a new
HST or std gear w/shuttle tractor.

Right now I have all three, a 22PTO hp HST, a 23.5 hp PTO gear
w/shuttle, and a 26PTO hp. GST which has a straight line auto shifter and you literally never need to put your foot on the clutch if you don't want to. (I still do out of habit sometimes)

The GST (Kubota) and HST (Deere) are so backwards from each
other it will be somewhat of a challenge to use each loader
without looking like a complete goofball, but all three of
these transmission types have advantages over the other to
me. I have to give up the gear tractor for cost reasons
and garage space issues but it's nice to know ONE of my
tractors can be parked on a hill and be there 5 years later.

The HST's have no positive locking mechanism, a SEVERE drawback.

The parking brake on the Kubota has been worthless from day 1. This
can't even hold itself with the foot brake backing off the car trailer
with low slope ramps.

Of course if everything was right with all these tractors
I'd have to find something else to complain about!

Maybe I could drag the Ford behind me with the Kubota and
use it as an anchor?

Try to get a couple of hours under your belt on each one if
you decide to spend the big bucks. You'll be surprised how
pleased or not pleased you will be with the various models.

I found I couldn't adapt to the go pedal on the HST Kubota
and didn't like the inability to use the brakes. The NH
starts with a Shibaura driveline which I have had for 20
wonderful years. None of these tractors are short of quality.

I know I might get blasted for this statement, but I cannot
imagine using the loader on my Deere 4210 for anything like
I have used the Ford 1710 or the Kubota L35 for, it is just
held on the sides with 4 bolts. Just a flat plate with 4 bolts. I would have think at least they would have made a big peg in the center that went into a reinforced section
of case.

I'm not hearing stories of the loaders even on the 4610 getting torn up though. If you look at the way the loader
is on the Kubota you will see quite a difference. Kubota
just began mounting their lift cylinders externally on the
3 point for easy repair.

As you can see, I'm color blind on these tractors, I
wish I could build one using ideas from all 3.

Good luck

del

 

[sweettractors]

If you are thru Ky? We are 1 hour south of Louisville, Ky and Have a nice 135 one owner with ROPS and PS and Diesel--Drive it and Some of the other used tractors and maybe one of the new Kioti® units and kinda get the feel for comparison from behind the wheel--We are at exit 65 off of I-65--Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment Co *2 locations to serve our customers*

 

[zuiko]

You might want to consider the JD 790, it is not that much more than the 30+ year old machine, certainly a lot cheaper than the other ones you looked at. I think they still got 0% financing going, which I would go for even if I had the cash to pay for it... why not.

Good luck.

 

[KubotaSteve]

I would go for one of the new compacts. I just bought a Kubota B-7800 with FEL, 60" MMM, box blade and my old man has a gas Massey Fergusson 135 (paid $3,800). The 135 will destroy a lawn with those ag tires (the skinny front tires don't help either. I was using it with a lanscape rake in my yard and I think I made more of a mess with the tractor than I did good with the rake. I have the R-4's on my 7800 and even if the ground is soft it doesn't rip through the sod like the 135. Hydrostat and mowing would more than make up for it to me. After using my 7800, the old man admitted that it could do pretty much everything the 135 could and is putting the 135 up for sale. Also he bought it from someone who said they restored it which meant they got it running decent and covered up some problem areas!!!!
Good luck.

 

[Woodbucher]

Thanx for all the great input guys you have made some good coments that I had not considered. I am leaning toward the 4X4 HYD R4 TC30 with with MMM and 7308 loader and the 85 bu Pequea spreader for $20,000 delivered to my door.

 

[jinman]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( $20,000 delivered to my door. )</font>

Nice choice! ...but tell them to stop in the driveway. Your wife might get upset if they put it right in front of the door. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Joe1]

Todd:

You might be able to find a good clean low hours used newer CUT that will work for you and be less expensive and still not eat you alive on maintenance/repairs which would give you the convenience and features you want and still save some thousands to use on other implements.

Joe