Buying Advice Which tractor? How much to pay?

[Blue14]

The HST transmission honestly frighten me. I envision lots of expense because of repair and maintenance. For my trucks I choose to only use manual transmissions. Every pickup I have had with an automatic transmission, I have had to replace and repair the transmission, transfer case etc. I would appreciate comments and suggestions, thoughts by anyone with experience with the different transmissions.

You might want to look at Yanmar YT series of tractors with the i-HMT transmissions.

 

[4570Man]

I think the lower limit on the tractor will be set by the need to safely handle 2500lb pallet loads. I'm guessing you will need near 3500lb loader lift capacity for the fork weight plus the pallets, with a safety margin.

Bruce

That depends on if you're happy just lifting them off the ground a little bit or want to set them on a semi trailer. I kinda doubt the 3600 pound loader could set a 2500 pound evenly distributed pallet on a semi.

 

[bcp]

That's why it was a guess.

Bruce

 

[4570Man]

That's why it was a guess.

Bruce

Well, I'm also guessing.

 

[YLee Kioti]

Re: Quest for Wisdom -

The best way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine how much bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

For most tractor tasks greater chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend. It takes a 50% increase in bare tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Heavier tractors have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements. Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs, yielding a smoother, less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation. Heavier tractors have wider wheel spreads making heavier tractors less laterally unstable. Rear wheel spreads may be decreased or increased after jacking up the rear.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are operated in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you take a hit in depreciation. Passing time with multiple browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. Dealer proximity is less important to others, well experienced with tractors, who perform their own maintenance. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment.

Horsepower is only a primary consideration operating PTO powered implements.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

Only addition I would add to this list is:

When you visit a dealer sit in the machine. adjust the seat. Use your arms to manipulate the FEL lever.
Can you picture 4 hours or so of FEL work in that position?
Have room for your legs. Can you turn and visually see the back 3PH in a reasonable manner etc.
A good test drive of each will help reduce that buyers remorse or maybe not but sure reduces the odds of having buyers remorse afterwards.

Good luck in your search. It was the fun part for me.

 

[jeff9366]

To unload 2,500 pound pallets from trucks safely, with the tractor and truck on a hard, smooth surface, you need a tractor with a minimum bare tractor weight of 5,000 pounds. Tractors with this weight are classed as Utility Tractors.

The minimum 5,000 pound tractor will need around 1,600 pounds of Loader counterbalance mounted on the Three Point Hitch to keep the tractor's rear wheels on the ground lifting 2,500 pound pallets. Loader + Utility Tractor + Counterbalance make a l-o-n-g combination.

Kubota Utility Tractor models begin with M6060 and M7060 models. Loader for these models is LA1154 with a nominal lift capacity of 2,500 pounds, so no reserve lift capacity. Loader lift capacity decreases rapidly with height of lift.

Building lasting roads takes a lot of experience. If you want to construct a 3,000 foot road yourself, with all the crowning, culverts and ditching necessary where there is considerable precipitation, a Utility Tractor has the grunt to do so over months of time ~~~~ with the right implements. Personally, with your difficult conditions I would contract road siting, road design and road construction to a construction contractor. You are quite likely to beat up the tractor doing road construction in rocky soil and over hills.

Your remaining tasks require less tractor weight. A 4,000 pound tractor is ample for road maintenance.

Utility tractors are NOT small enough to fit in tight spaces.

Utility tractors are NOT available with HST transmissions. You have not seen Utility Tractors if you have inspected HST equipped models.

LINK: https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/brochure-sheets/m60.pdf?sfvrsn=bbfa43b0_4


My bare weight 3,500 pound Kubota L3560 tows some fairly heavy loads from the rear/center drawbar with chains. You can drag some large boulders with from the rear/center drawbar of a much heavier Utility Tractor.

 

[MossRoad]

I think people ask about rain because rain = mud and mud = stuck tractor, for various reasons, like tire selection, size, floatation, traction, weight of machine, etc...

Mud and rain also = tire ruts, and tire ruts contribute to erosion which = washed out road.

 

[jeff9366]

If you will be loading and loading 2,500 pounds pallets regularly buy a Fork Lift, which has a rear engine for counterbalance and four equal size wheels for stability.

If you have a Fork Lift for unloading pallets and contract out road construction, a bare weight 4,000 pound tractor will meet your needs.

Tractors are inherently unstable = rollover prone. You do not realize how hazardous operating a tractor can be.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I don't think one tractor is going to meet your requirements. A tractor that will lift a 2500# pallet off a trailer will be too large to fit in small spaces (Utility class of tractor). You will need to unload about half that weight in order to get even the largest of the mid-level class of CUT tractors (like L series Kubota) to lift it.
As for digging in irrigation lines- What did you plan to use to do this? Are you thinking of a TLB tractor (tractor/loader/backhoe). This puts you in a whole different class of tractor if you need a construction grade backhoe.

 

[sd455dan]

My :2cents:
from reading this thread ,

Small but enough loader to lift 2500lb and Not to large of size with good weight/ - maybe a quasi utility/CUT sized machine thinking like a kioti DK 55 sized tractor. Not sure what the newest Kioti model would be?
Tires everything Op mentioned says R1's hopefully 6 ply rated or more.
Transmission: Synchronized Shuttle shift - The OP isn't crazy about HST , that's fine.

Not to far to far to Spokane So familiar with the weather around there.

Another thought Maybe 2 machines are in order- say maybe a full sized older backhoe for the odd heavy lift / truck unload and backhoe digging as posted above, and a mid sized newer CUT for everything else

 

[jeff9366]

I volunteer in a small, organically farmed Blueberry patch, owned by an aging Viet Nam vet.

We have found a $400 Bucket Spade to be extremely useful.

MORE: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/328798-bucket-spade-today-fel-bucket.html?highlight=

 

[TheSix]

I volunteer in a small, organically farmed Blueberry patch, owned by an aging Viet Nam vet.

We have found a $400 Bucket Spade to be extremely useful.

MORE: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/328798-bucket-spade-today-fel-bucket.html?highlight=

I love my Kubota but I was in the same position as you. I found that the best thing was get a skid steer you will be a lot happier if you have a lot of heavy loading to do with one you can lift a lot more in a smaller package , and if you decide it's over kill after your done with the road just sell it. My 2501 does great for 90 % of what I do I do have a grapple on it almost never use the bucket. But when it comes to heavy lifting I use the Bob cat. If you do get a tractor I have had both a manual and HST and if all I'm doing is bush hog or harrowing a manual is the way to go you get more pulling power out of them, but if you do a lot of loader work the HST makes life a lot easier .

 

[bdog]

Utility tractors are NOT available with HST transmissions. You have not seen Utility Tractors if you have inspected HST equipped models. [/I]

Are you sure? I am not up on all the models of all brands but I had a Kubota M59 that was 59hp, HST weighed around 8,000 lb and could lift around 4,000 if I recall correctly. Mine had a backhoe on it but I think they are available without it - not sure. I think the 59 is discontinued and replaced with the M62.

Surely someone makes large HST tractors? I have used some huge HST construction machinery.

Modern HST’s are very reliable. Likely will give you less trouble than a clutch. They are so nice to use especially for loader work.

 

[rScotty]

Tractors are real rugged. That's part of why they maintain their value so well. As for transmission type, our tractors have had all types of transmissions in the last 40 years - straight gear, syncro-shift, power/glide shift, & HST. None of them has broken or even required any maintenance. The HST is more convenient by far - especially for loader work. The key to making them last is to ease into the work and don't slam it around.ou can

More horsepower means you can do the same job faster. More gears means you can do the same job with less hp, but it will be slower. More of both is nice, but a lot can be done with less of each.

Horsepower is only useful for comparison when it is matched to a tractor's overall weight, size, and robustness. Robust construction is something you can spot by eyeball. It usually means the tractor is built with more metal in heavier gauges - and that leads back to weight again.

Sidehill stability is paramount in sloping ground. That means weight (again) and especially weight down low. Wide stance and having fat tires with industrial rather than Ag tread helps too.

For small tractors, 4wd is a necessity. Larger Ag and utility tractors can get often get by with 2wd because they have HUGE tires that leave ruts and they aren't all that maneuverable or handy.

Lifting 2500 to 3000 lbs with a loader and then expecting to be able to drive anywhere with that load is unreasonable in a machine that is also small enough to be useful for most homeowner and small farm chores. Half that capacity is about max for a compact tractor and even then it will be tippy. It may be capable of lifting more, but moving that much weight around is a whole different story. Utility tractors and small construction machines can handle that much weight - but they are heavier machines and more expensive.

Any tractor - even the smallest 4wd ones - with a loader and a back blade will move more snow than a gang of people with snow shovels. Deep snow on uneven terrain is a problem for most any tractor that is also useful in the summer - but the tractor still beats shoveling and will eventually get the snow moved.

working in the mountains or foothills with granite soil & lots of rocks requires a whole different approach & machine than doing flat land work in loam, mud, & clay.

A front loader (FEL) and bucket with or without a grapple is the main tool on most homeowner tractors. The FEL bucket can even do a lot of the type of smoothing and grading work. Being able to quickly switch between dirt buckets and rock or grapple buckets (requires SSQA) doubles the usefulness of the tractor in rocky ground. Being able to swap specialized FEL buckets is HUGE.
A backhoe is as useful as a crane for moving things around as it is for digging holes. With a thumb on the hoe, it is doubly useful. But it's an expensive attachment.

FEL capacity is measured in cubic yards. To make it easy, most tractor FEL buckets are spec壇 in percentage of a cubic yard.
The average yellow backhoes you see on most construction sites all have a bucket that holds one cubic yard when filled to the top (not heaped). A cubic yard of dry dirt weighs a minimum of 2000 pounds. For sand or gravel about 2500 pounds. Wet any of those materials and the yard of material will be closer to 3000 lbs.

FEL lift capacity is typically measured by the manufacturer at the rear bucket pins. Buckets are fairly heavy, and the load in a bucket is already a foot or two beyond the pins, so real usable lift capacity is less than what is spec壇.

Maintaining a dirt road requires a lot of experience. For building a dirt road from scratch you'll be happier if you job it out. Even us old timers with lots of years and all the equipment have learned the value of paying a pro to put new roads.

Tractors were originally designed for PULLING, and that is still what they are best at doing. IMHO - and it's just my own opinon - most small acreage and homeowner chores are more of the landscaping type than the tractor type. If that sounds familiar, you will get more use from a TLB (tractor/loader/backhoe) than from a tractor. Take a look at the Kubota B26 or used L39. It will probably meet your needs.

Don't be afraid of low hour used machines - especially homeowner machines. With average maintenance, most any tractor on the market today is built to last far longer than the owner will.

Even if you end up with the completely wrong machine you can be assured that it will still do more work for you than you ever believed possible.
And probably be worth close to what you paid for it at trade-in time, too.

enjoy the search
rScotty

 

[kneedeep]

Buy Bigger!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Here is a pallet mover I picked up from a retired seed dealer. It is pictured on a 60 HP 265 MF with wheel and front end weights which I think is going to be stable for my usage since it only goes up about 6 foot high. A double spool control valve is needed to both tilt and lift but a solid top link would be doable on flat level surfaces I expect. I had to drive 350 miles to pick this one up but over time one should be found in your region in the $500-$1500 range. Finding a motivated seller is important but the number of buyer in the market are LOW. I picked up the hydraulic link pictured in the PDF as well. Allowing myself $0.50 a mile round trip expense I am in for $850 for the full package. The seller had the mask cylinder rebuilt locally and it seems to be working well. I am glad I let the seller talk me into to hydraulic top link. There are many makers of these and some good shop built ones using the masks off of real fork trucks.

As you can read in the PDF it is rated up to 3500 pounds depending on tractor.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/392393-westendorf-3ph-fork-lift-craigslist.html