where are the coyotes?
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TresCrows
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I like your "sum of all intelligence is constant, it's the population that is growing" hypothesis. I beat you to it, however, and infuriated my highschool teacher with that hypothesis many years ago, but feel free to advance it at every opportunity.
There have been several threads on or involving coyotes. They will eat Lapsho Apsos and ****zus and kitty kats, they will kill fawns and new born calves, sheep etc, they are also one of natures checks and balances and cuz we screwed everything up there are now to many coyotes--in some places--and to many deer just about everywhere. I suspect a lot of coyote stories are "legend" . J
There have been several threads on or involving coyotes. They will eat Lapsho Apsos and ****zus and kitty kats, they will kill fawns and new born calves, sheep etc, they are also one of natures checks and balances and cuz we screwed everything up there are now to many coyotes--in some places--and to many deer just about everywhere. I suspect a lot of coyote stories are "legend" . J
cowboydoc
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You are right Ed. There are also hundreds of confirmed kills of coyotes and calves esp. in the west. Yes they do hunt in packs at times as well, esp. with cattle. They are even worse on lambs and will decimate a herd that isn't protected.
patrickg
Veteran Member
Sorry, did I forget to mention I was reporting on MY LOCAL information and your mileage may vary????
Here is another interesting FACT(???) There is no verified incidence of a wolf killing a human in the USA (I think I recall it being North America but it has been a while since I was reading into that topic.) Lots of hand me down myths but no verified incidences. "White Fang", "Call of the Wild", etc, Jack London could sure hold a young man spellbound with his tales, just don't confuse fiction with fact.
We have so many white tailed deer they are agricultural pests. We have "EXTRA" hunting seasons to try to reduce the herds, special anterless bag limits/seasons too. If coyotes were much threat to the deer population around here we wouldn't have sooooo many deer. Don't see too many sheep in this area except when the grade school children are trying to ride them at the rodeo (mutton busting). Can't say from first hand evidence or credible neighbor's report that coyotes take lambs, not having many around.
Heard about the Llamas, great idea.
If I actually had or my neighbors had a legitimate problem with coyotes (beyond useless little fluffy dogs being eaten) I would help reduce their numbers (Scoped 22-250 good on coyotes to 300 yds or better). I like dogs but it is inconsiderate of folks to move to a rural venue and expect nature to follow the script of a Disney animation.
Patrick
Here is another interesting FACT(???) There is no verified incidence of a wolf killing a human in the USA (I think I recall it being North America but it has been a while since I was reading into that topic.) Lots of hand me down myths but no verified incidences. "White Fang", "Call of the Wild", etc, Jack London could sure hold a young man spellbound with his tales, just don't confuse fiction with fact.
We have so many white tailed deer they are agricultural pests. We have "EXTRA" hunting seasons to try to reduce the herds, special anterless bag limits/seasons too. If coyotes were much threat to the deer population around here we wouldn't have sooooo many deer. Don't see too many sheep in this area except when the grade school children are trying to ride them at the rodeo (mutton busting). Can't say from first hand evidence or credible neighbor's report that coyotes take lambs, not having many around.
Heard about the Llamas, great idea.
If I actually had or my neighbors had a legitimate problem with coyotes (beyond useless little fluffy dogs being eaten) I would help reduce their numbers (Scoped 22-250 good on coyotes to 300 yds or better). I like dogs but it is inconsiderate of folks to move to a rural venue and expect nature to follow the script of a Disney animation.
Patrick
beenthere
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<font color=blue>There is no verified incidence of a wolf killing a human in the USA (I think
I recall it being North America but it has been a while since I was reading into that topic.) Lots of hand me
down myths but no verified incidences.<font color=black>
I agree with your take on the wolf killing a human, and wish you would have used the same logic (comment) when you mentioned the "Mad Deer Disease" in another thread. Its mis-information such as this that will keep a lot of hunters from going deer hunting in Wisconsin this year.
There are no "facts" supporting this as the same as Mad Cow Disease (other than the protein prions), and no facts to support any humans dying from eating venison from a deer with CWD. It is the kind of media hype that is being used to try to excite the populus. There apparently have been unsuccessful CWD experiments and research done for several years trying to infect other species (other than the cervids). So far it cannot be done. There seems to be a natural barrier of this disease moving outside the cervids (deer, elk). Scrapies in sheep has been around for years, and it is similar. There again, there is no panic when it comes to humans eating sheep meat. Sorry to expound on this, but I don't beleive the panic button should be pushed here. I think we should be much more fearful of the West Nile virus, than we need to be of CWD. I also think CWD has been around for years, and we eat venison with no apparent effects.
Now about calling coyotes - I understand hunters using a rabbit distress call have had mountain lions come up pretty close behind them too, along with the coyotes. Gives them a bit of a surprise.
I recall it being North America but it has been a while since I was reading into that topic.) Lots of hand me
down myths but no verified incidences.<font color=black>
I agree with your take on the wolf killing a human, and wish you would have used the same logic (comment) when you mentioned the "Mad Deer Disease" in another thread. Its mis-information such as this that will keep a lot of hunters from going deer hunting in Wisconsin this year.
There are no "facts" supporting this as the same as Mad Cow Disease (other than the protein prions), and no facts to support any humans dying from eating venison from a deer with CWD. It is the kind of media hype that is being used to try to excite the populus. There apparently have been unsuccessful CWD experiments and research done for several years trying to infect other species (other than the cervids). So far it cannot be done. There seems to be a natural barrier of this disease moving outside the cervids (deer, elk). Scrapies in sheep has been around for years, and it is similar. There again, there is no panic when it comes to humans eating sheep meat. Sorry to expound on this, but I don't beleive the panic button should be pushed here. I think we should be much more fearful of the West Nile virus, than we need to be of CWD. I also think CWD has been around for years, and we eat venison with no apparent effects.
Now about calling coyotes - I understand hunters using a rabbit distress call have had mountain lions come up pretty close behind them too, along with the coyotes. Gives them a bit of a surprise.
8NTX
Gold Member
I think I have seen more coyotes in town than in the country lately. Almost every time I go to DFW Airport, there is a coyote running along the edge of a small patch of woods near the south entrance. In the last 18 months, we have only seen one at our acreage in East Texas. Our place is across the road from a 1400 acre cattle ranch so we hear them almost every night. But the rancher says he hardly ever loses a calf to coyotes. They will stalk a momma cow giving birth, but mainly to get at the afterbirth. The momma cows and even the rest of the herd (black angus) tend to be protective of the calves.
The coyotes don't seem to be putting a dent in the fallow deer population in E. Texas. Last year it was white tail - saw maybe 12-15 all year long. This year, we see several fallow deer every day we are there. And they tend to run right in front of your car for some reason. I guess if the coyotes or hunters don't get 'em, the cars will.
The coyotes don't seem to be putting a dent in the fallow deer population in E. Texas. Last year it was white tail - saw maybe 12-15 all year long. This year, we see several fallow deer every day we are there. And they tend to run right in front of your car for some reason. I guess if the coyotes or hunters don't get 'em, the cars will.
I wonder if all these livestock killings were witnessed or if tracks were found by a carcass--then I have to wonder how many people can tell a coyote track from a dog track.
Dogs will pack up and attack livestock; I've personally seen it and have sent many a dog-pack member to meet his maker. In my limited experience of living my whole life in rural communities, never--not once--have I seen a pack of coyotes attack livestock. In fact, the only time they pack up at all is during mating season and that is obviously for another purpose.
Dogs will pack up and attack livestock; I've personally seen it and have sent many a dog-pack member to meet his maker. In my limited experience of living my whole life in rural communities, never--not once--have I seen a pack of coyotes attack livestock. In fact, the only time they pack up at all is during mating season and that is obviously for another purpose.
EdKing
Platinum Member
<font color=blue>I wonder if all these livestock killings were witnessed </font color=blue>
Yes, they were witnessed. In fact my nerighbor has shot several coyotes attacking his sheep. He keeps his land posted, no hunting, but has told me and my other neighbors we are welcome to hunt coyotes on his land any time we want. That number of lambs wasn't a total figure, but a yearly figure. Even with the llama and the donkey, he is still loosing lambs to coyotes each year. As far as cows go, I haven't heard of any losses, but there may have been some of them.
Yes, they were witnessed. In fact my nerighbor has shot several coyotes attacking his sheep. He keeps his land posted, no hunting, but has told me and my other neighbors we are welcome to hunt coyotes on his land any time we want. That number of lambs wasn't a total figure, but a yearly figure. Even with the llama and the donkey, he is still loosing lambs to coyotes each year. As far as cows go, I haven't heard of any losses, but there may have been some of them.
patrickg
Veteran Member
beenthere, Sorry if I was too sloppy, I sure didn't mean to imply that Mad Cow had crossed over into deer and elk. I intended to say there was something out there in deer and elk which may be similar, I believe that is the way the info was presented by the unimpeachable paragon of reporting virtue, CNN. Seems that (here is where I may have recalled wrong) there were six (but it could have been three) hunters who died and had been eating their game for years. Don't recall the details, if many/any were given, on how they were legitimately grouped together and related to game eating. Don't want to let "post hoc, propter ergo hoc" make a fool of anyone.
Had it been on "Sightings" or something I saw in the supermarket checkout line on the front page of the "National Enquirer" (should be called "Wild [censored] Speculator") in between the Elvis sightings and the lead article about space aliens raping our chickens, I wouldn't have ever have mentioned it.
Patrick
Had it been on "Sightings" or something I saw in the supermarket checkout line on the front page of the "National Enquirer" (should be called "Wild [censored] Speculator") in between the Elvis sightings and the lead article about space aliens raping our chickens, I wouldn't have ever have mentioned it.
Patrick
cstocks
Platinum Member
Except for the hog farm next door we had very few neighbors within two or three miles so I don't know what other damage the wild dogs did as far as pets and livestock were concerned.
My dad had a theory about this pack of dogs. Since they roamed the woods for several years he figured that, aside from the inclusion of the occasional new outside member, this pack had for the most part bred among itself and created its own unique breed and identity. Indeed, the majority of the dogs in the pack were of medium build, short haired and yellow. We assumed the pack was orginally made up of strays. But that is not to say a few "owned" dogs might not have joined up, as was noted by my last post.
One of the side "benefits" of living in the country was being on the receiving end of every dumped dog that the folks from town decided they no longer wanted. I guess they figured that us country folks could always use an extra dog and that they did us a favor by dumping out their unwanted pets on the country roads. In actuality most of those dogs ended up dead, either through disease or starvation or from being shot. We always figured that the pack of wild dogs was made up mostly of strays that had survived being dumped and adapted to the feral lifestyle.
Because of the strength and longevity of this pack I wonder to this day how they died off in the end.
My dad had a theory about this pack of dogs. Since they roamed the woods for several years he figured that, aside from the inclusion of the occasional new outside member, this pack had for the most part bred among itself and created its own unique breed and identity. Indeed, the majority of the dogs in the pack were of medium build, short haired and yellow. We assumed the pack was orginally made up of strays. But that is not to say a few "owned" dogs might not have joined up, as was noted by my last post.
One of the side "benefits" of living in the country was being on the receiving end of every dumped dog that the folks from town decided they no longer wanted. I guess they figured that us country folks could always use an extra dog and that they did us a favor by dumping out their unwanted pets on the country roads. In actuality most of those dogs ended up dead, either through disease or starvation or from being shot. We always figured that the pack of wild dogs was made up mostly of strays that had survived being dumped and adapted to the feral lifestyle.
Because of the strength and longevity of this pack I wonder to this day how they died off in the end.
RonL
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A couple of years ago my wife and I were driving on the road outside the city that skirts the city reservoir. We saw a group of people stopped on the side of the road. We stopped and observed a pack of coyotes surrounding a deer on the ice in the middle of the reservoir. Even at a distance we could see that the rear haunches of the deer were covered in blood. The deer was trying to get to its feet but could not. Several people in the crowd were saying: " Why doesn't somebody do something". The coyotes were becoming increasingly wary of the gathering crowd, stopping as they circled the downed deer and steered at the gathering crowd. Eventually the coyotes became spooked and ran off into the woods. It was twilight and with the ice unsafe, it was obvious that the coyotes were going to return after dark and finish off the deer. Such is the natural order of things. All species, humans included, will do what is necessary to survive.
RonL
RonL
