Whats wrong with tier 4

[KevT]

I keep reading posts about how much better the tier 3 is over the new tier 4 tractors. I will admit this is very much a short coming in my knowledge base. The only thing I can see about the tier 4 is that it burns the residue from the catalytic converter when it gets clogged. kinda like a self cleaning oven. Isn't that a good thing to have cleaner air from better exhaust? Yes, my new L3901 is a tier 4 and from everything I read (haven't had to cycle it yet) it doesn't even slow you down from working while it is doing it. So what am I missing? Besides this is a California requirement so everyone has to abide.

I figure if I don't ask, I'll never know

 

[Sysop]

I think what has made most people avoid tier4 is the additional cost and additional part numbers added to a machine everyone prefers be reasonably priced and uncomplicated. The regen/cleaning cycle also worries folk who work around dry dusty stuff that could easily catch fire with a machine bellowing out 1000+ degree exhaust gases.

Beyond the added price, added complication, and high temp exhaust during regens, they're fine motors.

 

[Utopia Texas]

I was leary of the Tier 4 system until I bought my NH T4.75. Works like a dream and I would never know it was regenerating if it did not give a 3 second alert at the start and at the end of the cycle. I have no complaints at this point in time.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

NOTHING WRONG. Just ignore the sky is falling crowd.

 

[teg]

It's the unknown factor... might be better, or maybe not. FYI, It's the Final Tier 4... the interim Tier 4 has been out since 2008.

 

[eth555]

So far my Tier 4 experiences have been like others have said, it has been very unintrusive; wouldn't know it was regenerating if it didn't beep and tell me it was. People are scared of the unknown or the different, and the added the exhaust filter seems to scare people for the potential problems it may cause. People also do not like that the government mandated these emissions, but the government also mandated Tiers 1-3 emission levels.

 

[jim3616]

In my opinion the cost benefit analysis of having hobby tractors adhere to these standards is unjustified. If the EPA wants to make a true difference then eliminate the ethenol mandate. Of course, big agriculture (ADM et al) would never allow their congressional lackies do this. Done ranting - sorry ��

 

[KevT]

In my opinion the cost benefit analysis of having hobby tractors adhere to these standards is unjustified. If the EPA wants to make a true difference then eliminate the ethenol mandate. Of course, big agriculture (ADM et al) would never allow their congressional lackies do this. Done ranting - sorry ��

First, never be sorry for having an opinion, that is why we live in this country and why many of us spent time defending it. That said... what do you consider a "Hobby Tractor"? Yes mine is a small 37hp, and yes I like working the land with it (now if I only knew what I was doing) but I don't consider it a hobby. My wife cans the food we raise in the garden for us to eat all year long, My pastures feed the animals (goats, zebu) that produce off spring we sell and eat. To me this is not a hobby but a way of life I have worked hard to get.

Okay now I am done ranting...:thumbsup:

 

[skyhook]

Personally, I wouldn't buy one, and here's my thinking as to why,
this thing collects all the soot garbage (something like a wood stove pipe) but does a better job of it,
after so many hours (as opposed to 6 months for a wood stove) it clogs up generating allot of "heat".
So now, to get rid of this stuff, it has to get even "hotter". How long will these parts last before they need replacement and what will the cost be. No thanks.
But I can understand that you now have no choice in the matter when purchasing new,
because as we all know, the sky IS falling.

 

[jd4310man]

Whats wrong with tier 4 emissions? Its adding much more complexity to the engine, adding electronic controls where there used to be none. (Tell me how electronics have helped to make anything better)? Its sacrificing fuel efficiency for the sake of having no evil smoke come out the exhaust pipe. Now your tractor will throw some stupid code because a sensor is reading wrong and will most likely shut the engine down. Just wait long enough and these electronic nightmares will cause way more problems than the previous proven mechanical tractors ever did. As an end user, I could care less whats coming out the exhaust as long is runs, is fuel efficient, and is easy for me to work on so im not limited to some high dollar an hour rip off shop to keep me running. Show me where there is all this high air pollution? Go back 100 yrs and tell me about high air pollution where everything used to be coal powered and smoke so think you couldn't see. Now that was emissions. Dont think we have that problem now do we? All the emissions thing is so the government can bleed us threw MORE regulations, MORE reasons to FINE us. Cost us more money to keep our engines running, Made repair cost skyrocket! Sorry but I will keep my old dinosaur running as long as i can.

 

[buickanddeere]

The emissions differences between Tier II and Tier III or Tier IV are neglegable so nothing is gained. Tier IV costs more than Tier II. Tier IV costs more to service than Tier II. Tier IV wastes fuel by burning diesel in the filter. Tier IV will have more down time than Tier II.

 

[EddieWalker]

My hesitation with Tier 4 is that its new technology that has been forced on the manufacturers and in order to get it out by the deadline, they do what they have to in order to make it happen. While it's probably fine as it is, my experience with all things automotive is that it takes several years to get it all worked out. I would never buy the first year of a new model truck because all you hear about when the second year of that model is how they fixed everything wrong with the first year. I think that in a couple of years, they will have figured out how to do the Tier 4 requirements a lot better and more affordable.

Eddie

 

[Ed of all trades]

I have a $900 sensor on my car that locked the emergency brake in the middle of a driving lane in the wallmart parking lot. A few years ago there were NO sensors on cars and now they are doing it to tractors. If the economy gets bad and you need to plow the garden or whatever a sensor can put you out of business. With a bad economy $900 might as well be $9000.
I am now done with my rant, carry on with your normal activities.

 

[Coyote machine]

It's somewhere in between sky falling and no need to panic. Ever since there has been fuel injection on cars sensors have told it what to do.

Anything that is new technology, and this applies to Tier 4 as it did to Tier 2, 3 etc. gets the bugs worked out in the field. That means the end user pays for the bug fixes, or retrofits, until whatever it is works as intended.

Sometimes things get done during the manufacturers warranty, and sometimes during the EPA's separate emissions warranty timeframe. Either way, we as consumers pay more for the mandated technology at retail purchase, and possible down time when sensors and other items are bolted to our tractors, cars, trucks. Our time is valuable but not accounted for, and we are the guinea pigs for the government's debugging of our equipment, ultimately at our own expense in time/profits lost, loss of peace of mind, and higher prices of additional filters, and more fuel burned to do less actual work.

It's otherwise great because the government told us we need it because.... Embrace it, but not too tightly, you might get burned.:confused3:

 

[mx1alex]

Some brands are saying their newer tier 4 motors won't need regen cycles and will instead get a cleaner exhaust by going with a common rail design fuel injection system. I don't know enough about them but that sounds better than going through a regen cycle every 5 hours like I hear about with some tractors. But I can also with all the high pressure and precision involved with a common rail not holding up to the abuses I put a tractor through.

I was dead set on buying a brand new tractor but the more and more I read about tier 4 I decided to buy used. Tier 4 might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, idk, but I don't won't the be the guinea pig and be the first to try out the technology.

 

[Coyote machine]

Time will tell on all the systems, common rail, or Tier 4, 4.5, 5, etc. Until then it's just another *Frankenstein experiment, now where's the brain labeled 'abnormal~ do not use'? :shocked:

* Apologies to Dr.'s Frankenstein, no offense meant, comparing your excellent work to the government.

 

[Utopia Texas]

In my opinion the cost benefit analysis of having hobby tractors adhere to these standards is unjustified. If the EPA wants to make a true difference then eliminate the ethenol mandate. Of course, big agriculture (ADM et al) would never allow their congressional lackies do this. Done ranting - sorry ��

If you think the anti pollution mandates for tractor motors is bad you should see all the changes in small outboard boat motors and now chainsaws.

 

[Topesrule]

Whats wrong with tier 4 emissions? Its adding much more complexity to the engine, adding electronic controls where there used to be none. (Tell me how electronics have helped to make anything better)? Its sacrificing fuel efficiency for the sake of having no evil smoke come out the exhaust pipe. Now your tractor will throw some stupid code because a sensor is reading wrong and will most likely shut the engine down. Just wait long enough and these electronic nightmares will cause way more problems than the previous proven mechanical tractors ever did. As an end user, I could care less whats coming out the exhaust as long is runs, is fuel efficient, and is easy for me to work on so im not limited to some high dollar an hour rip off shop to keep me running. Show me where there is all this high air pollution? Go back 100 yrs and tell me about high air pollution where everything used to be coal powered and smoke so think you couldn't see. Now that was emissions. Dont think we have that problem now do we? All the emissions thing is so the government can bleed us threw MORE regulations, MORE reasons to FINE us. Cost us more money to keep our engines running, Made repair cost skyrocket! Sorry but I will keep my old dinosaur running as long as i can.

you typed this on pretty sophisticated electronics, and now people all over the world are able to read it. I'd say that's better than sending a letter in the mail and waiting 3 months for a reply. You make some fair points, but some are contradictory as well. Do you know why the air isn't so polluted that we can't see like it was in the 19th and early 20th century? Regulations. Also I would argue that the new tractors produced today are far more efficient and reliable than early mechanical tractors.

 

[Utopia Texas]

Some brands are saying their newer tier 4 motors won't need regen cycles and will instead get a cleaner exhaust by going with a common rail design fuel injection system. I don't know enough about them but that sounds better than going through a regen cycle every 5 hours like I hear about with some tractors. But I can also with all the high pressure and precision involved with a common rail not holding up to the abuses I put a tractor through.
I was dead set on buying a brand new tractor but the more and more I read about tier 4 I decided to buy used. Tier 4 might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, idk, but I don't won't the be the guinea pig and be the first to try out the technology.

My NH T4.75 has both common rail injection and The Tier 4B regeneration system. After 75 hours of use I can take a clean rag and wipe the inside tip of the exhaust stack and the rag comes out clean. This technology does work at least as far as visible carbon deposits are concerned.

 

[AchingBack]

If you think the anti pollution mandates for tractor motors is bad you should see all the changes in small outboard boat motors and now chainsaws.

Some day, loggers will be using axes, and two-man buck saws, farm implements will be pulled by horses and oxen only, (they must be the kind that do not emit methane gas), and all boats will be rowed.