What Tractor

[NewCountryBoy]

Hi. I just found this site and it looks great. I have been trying to get information about the tractors. My wife and I recently purchased 5+ acres in Central Oklahoma. I grew up out in the country and moved to the city when I went to school. I am back out in the country and am lost. I need to mow the lawn, it will all be finished cut, I believe. We do have one horse that we will be finally keeping at our property, with the plans to get another. I don't want to spend a lot of money on a tractor. We have a wonderful neighbor that is willing to move our round bales right now, although I don't want to rely on him for ever. Based upon this, I have a couple of questions. I would like to be able to mow now and haul a trailer, etc.
1. Should I start off with a center mounted lawn mower or a larger tractor?
2. Depending on that answer, are there any recommendations as to what to look for. I have purchased several books but I am looking for real life answers.

Brett

 

[flusher]

Hi. I just found this site and it looks great. I have been trying to get information about the tractors. My wife and I recently purchased 5+ acres in Central Oklahoma. I grew up out in the country and moved to the city when I went to school. I am back out in the country and am lost. I need to mow the lawn, it will all be finished cut, I believe. We do have one horse that we will be finally keeping at our property, with the plans to get another. I don't want to spend a lot of money on a tractor. We have a wonderful neighbor that is willing to move our round bales right now, although I don't want to rely on him for ever. Based upon this, I have a couple of questions. I would like to be able to mow now and haul a trailer, etc.
1. Should I start off with a center mounted lawn mower or a larger tractor?
2. Depending on that answer, are there any recommendations as to what to look for. I have purchased several books but I am looking for real life answers.

Brett

Since you don't want to spend a lot, think about a used tractor. You could get a Ford 8N gasser for $2-3K (lot of them around, parts are not hard to find) and mow with a $1400 finish mower

CountyLine Rear Discharge Finish Mower, 5 ft. - 2120547 | Tractor Supply Company

Center mount mowers on tractors like the Kubota B7510HST that I once owned cost at least $3K.

Two of my neighbor have 8Ns and they are handy little tractors.
For moving bales, there are 3pt hitch fork carry all attachments for that work.

New Page 1

Also 3pt bale spears are available

Washburn Company & hayspear.com Three point implements and 3 pt attachments

If you're into welding, these are easy fabrication projects.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree. Get a 8N but get a good one. This means no junk. Spend $3000 and get one that has been gone though. It will save you money in the end. A 6 foot finish mower, 6' rear grader blade, and a 3 point bale spear and you can do most anything in OK since you are fairly flat and very little if any snow.

Chris

 

[Specop_007]

I was in a similar position earlier this year. On my fathers farm we have a MF 35 delux that just didnt run. You could pull start it and it might start and idle but that was about it.

I looked at new options and to get anywhere near what that '35 had in terms of HP it was going to set me back around $15k or more.

I took that old tractor to a mechanic I knew and for a touch over a $1000 it now runs better than it ever has. Its still not perfect, the rear seal has a small leak but he did valves, carb, filters, replaced a broken manifold and water pump, points and plugs and a few other things. It RUNS now.

The point of this little story is this. You can spend 15 or 20k now and get something shiny new that does everything you would want. Or you can shop around a little, get something old and used for 2-4k, put another 500-2k in it in repair and for around 5k have a tractor that will do everything the new one would have. And really you might find a used one that doesnt need any work..... the difference between 3k and 15k buy a LOT of implements.

 

[NewCountryBoy]

Thanks for the response. Now I know what kind I should look for. As for a "good" tractor, what specifically should I be looking for. I am assuming I don't want somethign that smokes and that sounds normal. I am not a mechanic but enjoy working on cars. I think I could I could also enjoy tractors but I haven't tried yet. I know they are different. What kind of things should I be leary of when I go to look at them.

 

[Aqualize]

Thanks for the response. Now I know what kind I should look for. As for a "good" tractor, what specifically should I be looking for. I am assuming I don't want somethign that smokes and that sounds normal. I am not a mechanic but enjoy working on cars. I think I could I could also enjoy tractors but I haven't tried yet. I know they are different. What kind of things should I be leary of when I go to look at them.

Look for the expensive stuff and hard to repair. E.g. the clutch, you have to divide the tractor in two to change it. Granted, these tractors are not so hard to divide as new ones but still.
Hydraulic pump is also important. I don't know how a Ford 8N is constructed but if it is any similar to a Ferguson TE20/MF35 the hydraulic pump is located in the transmission housing under the seat. That way you can't see if it is leaking so you have to test the hydraulics and preferable with a load on. Other manufacturers (like the Swedish one I'm used to, BM Volvo) have a separate hydraulic system (oil not shared with transmission) and the hydraulic pump is located beside the engine and powered via the fan belt, hence easy to change.

If you are into buying a old tractor and you know the specific model the forums at Yesterday's tractors can be a good read. Also there is a section here on tractorbynet for vintage tractors.

I bought myself a good book, How To Restore Classic Farm Tractors. I found that google books have it scanned so you can have a look at page 23 ("evaluating a running tractor") and 28 (continuation and "negotiating a price").

edit: Google books didn't have the whole book but a big preview that thankfully contained the pages I wanted to share.

 

[Aqualize]

[...] I would like to be able to mow now and haul a trailer, etc.
1. Should I start off with a center mounted lawn mower or a larger tractor?
[...]

So you mean to mow the 5+ acres of pasture? Or the garden? For pasture ("open fields") I recommend a mower in the 3pt hitch and a larger tractor. Center-mounted lawn mowers works good for gardens where objects has to be avoided and a "big" (think Ford 8N etc.) tractor won't fit (of course front mounted lawn mowers with steering wheels at the back is the best but overkill for small gardens).
But considering you want to haul round bales with a trailer/wagon I definitely think you should buy an older agricultural tractor of a smaller size, with good brakes, I wouldn't be afraid of buy something a bit younger than the 8N, something late 50s, early 60s. You would then get more gears to choose on.

If you don't need to load/unload the bales from a wagon the 3 point hitch bales are excellent for moving bales around the property. Much better than using a FEL for these old tractors, they are meant to be carrying things on the rear axle. Plus it's easier to maneuver around (because it works like a forklift). But get one with 2 (long) or 3 (one long and two short) spears. There are those with only one spear but you can get a problem if the bales aren't very compact they will not loose contact with the ground directly while you start raising the spear plus that you perhaps hadn't hit the exact center of gravity, so the bale rotates a bit on the spear and takes even more raising of the spear before it looses contact with the ground. All this results in a not so good ground clearance.
I have not any specific experience with these but I would guess the 2 spear solution (2 long spears placed very low) is the best as even loose (not hard compacted) bales will loose contact with the ground directly when the spears raises.

 

[NewCountryBoy]

We have about .75 acre around the house that is treed and will need mowing. After looking at it last night, it looks like with all the trees, I will need a smaller mower, probably a little push mower. I am looking at mowing the back acres which is probably 4+.
This might be a stupid question but can you add a FEL to an older tractor or do you need it to be installed on it from the factory? Are the finishing mowers relatively easy to manevure?

 

[Aqualize]

I agree, get some other machine for mowing the lawn around the house.

Yes you can add FELs later but need to consider a few things.
First problem is getting a mounting kit for your specific tractor, as you probably is looking for a used FEL there can be a problem to find the right one. These things can be constructing relatively easy if one can is good at welding, drilling holes etc. in metal. But easies is to find a FEL that has been on the specific model of tractor, or to know that it will fit (the mounting kits can perhaps fit tractors from different brands, but finding this out is the hard part).
Next things is the hydraulics. You need a tractor where external hydraulics is possible (I'm writing this as I don't know if tractors like Ford 8N has it) and then buy a hydraulic valve package (if not included with the FEL).
For a first-timer this can take time and I would look for a tractor with FEL already. But if you are planning to buy a used tractor in fairly good condition and spend a little extra in a tractor repair shop they could probably easily mount and install the FEL.

Edit: I'm writing this with small agricultural tractors in mind. I don't know (but would expect) the same holds for more modern CUTs.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Biggest issue on old tractors and FEL's is no power steering. Very tough to steer with a load in the bucket. If you are looking for a cheap good tough simple tractor look at a Jinma 284. Same size and HP as a 8N but 4x4, just as simple but diesel with good hydros. I have one and have been very pleased. Bought it new with a FEL for under 10K.

Here is a pic of mine with my plow on in place of the the bucket on the FEL.

Chris

 

[deepNdirt]

Hello Brett and welcome,
true this is a great site and a lot of very informative Folks here more than willing to help,
You mention that you "Grew up in the Country" but moved to the city, during this time in the country did you ever operate or drive a tractor?
if the answer is yes then the 8 or 9-n ford tractors would be a good size for you and theland you have,........ how ever! if never operated a tractor? the 8-9-n's can be rather intimating by they're size and power, I would consider finding a bit smaller power house tractor with a ROPE system and learn from a smaller tractor a little at a time, you will find that quite a lot of the compact kubota's yanmar's,etc, have lots of power and not quite as bulky to maneuver as the larger fords,
and compacts that are equip with 4wd can take you anywhere on your property you need to go,............. I dont know about your neck of the woods? but around here in nth Ga. do to our economy there seems to be lots of folks selling their tractors and at very reasonable prices, nice 8-n's are selling for under 2500
small compact jap tractor are selling from 2-k to 5-k with implements and some with loaders,
if your up for a trip to the south I'm sure you could find a great deal here just as i did.
keep a check on the CL and Ga. farmers Market Bulletin, both on line....
just to give you an example-----> classifieds - craigslist

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/search/grd?query=ford+8-n&catAbbreviation=grd&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

good luck on your quest to finding the right tractor...

 

[Aqualize]

One problem with "chinese brands" compared to "western brands" that I've seen is the rear 3 point hitch. The chineses lack good lifting power. Taking that yanmar as an example, what I've found is that it has 875 lbs (I think that's the 24" behind measurement) TractorData.com - Jinma JM-284 tractor data.
Comparing it to western brands' CUTs which weights around 3000 lbs they have at least twice as much lifting power.
A bale spear that weights 200+ lbs and a round bale... I wouldn't be comfortable with that on the Jinma 284.
I have tried to find some information on the 8N but can't. Anyone has information on 3-pt lift capacity?

deepNdirt, good point about experience and ROPS. I forgot that probably no 8N has ROPS. In Sweden it was legislated to be mandatory in 1959, so all close to all tractors that are for sale (and not just for vintage tractor shows) have ROPS (actually mostly FOPS). One grows accustomed to not think of it.

Also it's true that for FEL work one should really consider 4WD with hydrostatic steering. I forgot about that also, I had no choice when I grew up but using a 4400 lbs tractor 2wd vintage tractor with FEL and without power assisted steering (the tractor was already old when I grew up, I'm not so old but know I at least have another tractor with power assisted steering).

 

[deepNdirt]

One problem with "chinese brands" compared to "western brands" that I've seen is the rear 3 point hitch. The chineses lack good lifting power. Taking that yanmar as an example, what I've found is that it has 875 lbs .

Also a good point made, the weight of a tractor would be very important if using it to carry large heavy bales of hay and i suppose if he has already plans on moving large round bales of hay then he has in fact operated a large tractor before,......;
Oh! just for the books... a Yanmar is a Japanese made tractor, it took me a while to tell the apart myself, not the tractors the people,

 

[Diamondpilot]

Also a good point made, the weight of a tractor would be very important if using it to carry large heavy bales of hay and i suppose if he is planing on moving large round bales of hay then he has in fact opperated a tractor before,......;
Oh! just for the books... a Yanmar is a Japanese made tractor,

I know the 875# is what is listed but I can tell you I have lifted a Dodge 3/4 ton van with motor and all in it with both my FEL and 3 point. I also lift a 1200# back hoe. I have never done it buy my co worker has a 254 Jinma and moves 1000# round bales weekly with his. My good friend has a Case DX 29 and a neighbor has a 33HP JD and it will do everything and more than both these machines.

The info on these tractors is way off. For example mine is supposed to be 24 HP on the pto but on the dyno at the dealer it turned 31HP.

Chris

 

[Aqualize]

I know the 875# is what is listed but I can tell you I have lifted a Dodge 3/4 ton van with motor and all in it with both my FEL and 3 point. I also lift a 1200# back hoe. I have never done it buy my co worker has a 254 Jinma and moves 1000# round bales weekly with his. My good friend has a Case DX 29 and a neighbor has a 33HP JD and it will do everything and more than both these machines.

The info on these tractors is way off. For example mine is supposed to be 24 HP on the pto but on the dyno at the dealer it turned 31HP.

Chris

Ok good to know that the specifications can't be trusted. Strange though that the underspec their tractors.

 

[shine]

For 5 acres and 1 or 2 horses.
Another option would be 3x3x8 bales and a large compact tractor with loader.

 

[Steve C]

Ok good to know that the specifications can't be trusted. Strange though that the underspec their tractors.

I have a Farmpro 2425. I have lifted and carried over 1000lbs in my 30 inch king cutter dirt scoop bucket and it didn't even hesitate to pick it up. (the steering got a little light) It is only rated for 875# I have not yet found anything that it won't lift.

 

[joe48]

We have about .75 acre around the house that is treed and will need mowing. After looking at it last night, it looks like with all the trees, I will need a smaller mower, probably a little push mower. I am looking at mowing the back acres which is probably 4+.
This might be a stupid question but can you add a FEL to an older tractor or do you need it to be installed on it from the factory? Are the finishing mowers relatively easy to manevure?

think about these options,assuming you are working with a 15k budget; put a zero turn in mix for mowing, you'll do 5acre in<2 hrs ,opposed to 4+hrs with any tractor and 3pt mower
1. buy used in the < $5000 range as a starter, add a good new zero turn for all that lawn,+-$5K, buy attachments with the rest or put the $ into a garage /shop/ barn, for the toys(you'll be glad you did)
2. buy good used/new zero turn +-$5k, look for a decent JD,NH,IH,Kioti,Kubota, with hydro,loader, and attachments, size loader based on handling 2000# round bales, $10k,
(bigger units in this range used have been $15k +, but are now coming down to 10-15k ranges if you look) the bigger farm dealers will have better prices on this size as they are chore tractors for farmers not a prime tractor for hobbyists. For a 2000# loader you're looking at 35 to55 hp size tractors. Look on line, several other posters mentioned a few sources and there are more.
Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[greggh]

For 5 acres and 1 or 2 horses.
Another option would be 3x3x8 bales and a large compact tractor with loader.

With just one horse, why deal with such large bales. Why not the small bales 60 to 75 lbs? they can be handled by hand and carried aywhere with a pickup.

I probably should rethink my question. Maybe you don't have storage for the smaller bales. That would answer my question. The big rounds can be left in the field.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I had horses for about 20 years and we managed fine with the smaller bales of hay that weighed about 75 lbs each. You don't need a tractor for them, in fact with just a 3-4 horses you just throw them out by hand. But you can throw a few in the back of a pickup truck and distribute them in the paddock or pasture that way as well. I think sometimes we get carried away with thinking we need to do everything with a front end loader or 3 point hitch.

You can get loaders for the older 9N's and 8N's as well. You can install a hydraulic pump running off the front crank shaft pto and get plenty of hydraulic power. For a short time I had a Freeman loader on an 8n but mostly used a 2N (like a 9N) with no loader.

There are many options available. It all depends on your budget. But a 40's to 50's vintage Ford with 3 point hitch and pto is a pretty good low entry fee tractor. But if you can afford more, a used 80's or 90's cut would be great too.