What should I buy?

[Mike120]

My OLD Lincoln Tombstone finally gave up the ghost. I'm tired of messing with it, need to buy something new, and I'm looking for suggestions. Most of my welding is on broken farm equipment or in fabricating implements/things I'm too cheap to buy or can't buy. Typically I only use stick on heavy/thick steel. On anything 3/8" or below, I'll usually use flux core if it's plain steel and MIG for anything else. I use a spool gun for aluminum. I have read a lot about the new inverter welders that can also do TIG which I learned about 35 years ago as heliarc. It was great for exotics but I'm not sure what I would do with it now. Please educate me. My inclination was to just get a Lincoln AC/DC-225 which I would just leave on DC but I'm not sure what I would be missing. Portability is not really an issue. All my fields are reasonably close and I've got a little 120V 100 amp wire feed that I can run on a generator to tack stuff together before I drag it back to the shop. So here are my questions:

1) What is the real difference between stick welding, using DC on a tombstone or one of the new inverter machines? I don't think I have any real arc control issues, so what am I missing?

2)What could I use TIG for that I can't already do with MIG?

Thanks!

 

[Reyer Farms]

Hey mike. Wearing out an Lincoln 225 tombstone is an accomplishment ! Congrats. If you want dc I recommend miller thunderbolt or Hobart stickmate. With the right stuff you can scratch start off them. They are infinitely adjustable unlike your tombstone. I can say I was very impressed with the miller/ Hobart a few years ago. It just comes down to what you like on the other end of your whip.

 

[Reyer Farms]

Question 1: inverters allow you really customize your arc with voltage and amperage. Water or butter, soft or hard. They are also adjustable infinitely instead of tapped 75, 90,&... Inverters are more compact and some offer variable input power. When you look at the machine voltage and amp curve you get constant current or constant voltage. Inverters allow you to have best of both worlds. Tombstones are great, simple, and dang near bullet proof. It and the shield arcs really built much of America IMHO.
Question 2: tig will allow you do anything if it is ac/dc. Tig is the most versatile of all methods. Tig gives weld quality that far exceeds mig.
Good luck.
Jody

 

[boomer1025]

Check out the EverLast line of welders. Good price & great support & service. Their PA200 would be good for the farm.

 

[Shield Arc]

I have an Everlast PA-200, and I have run one of the members here Longevity Stickweld 250. I also have a Lincoln V350-Pro. All inverters, I would suggest Everlast PA-300, or Longevity's Stickweld 250 because both have adjustable hot start, and arc force like my Lincoln V350-Pro. Even though I'm a hobbyist, I' am a little old school, these inverters just amaze me with the control they have over the puddle.:cool2:

 

[Mike120]

Hey mike. Wearing out an Lincoln 225 tombstone is an accomplishment ! Congrats.

Not sure I wore it out. It still runs but only at top speed. I think the selector switch is probably corroded. It's been problematic in the lower ranges for some time It gives me an excuse to get something new and I want the DC option.

Question 1: inverters allow you really customize your arc with voltage and amperage. Water or butter, soft or hard. They are also adjustable infinitely instead of tapped 75, 90,&...
Question 2: tig will allow you do anything if it is ac/dc. Tig is the most versatile of all methods. Tig gives weld quality that far exceeds mig.

That's what I assumed. I had been looking at a Miller Thunderbolt XL 225/150 AC/DC for that reason. However, I rarely run into anything that I can't stick together. I tend to spend a lot more time cutting and prepping the metal so the assembly phase is almost anti-climactic. Farm equipment doesn't typically involve exotic metallurgy and the only time I mess with aluminum is making repairs/modifications on my horse trailers. I know TIG is versatile, I just can't figure out what I'd use it for.

I have an Everlast PA-200, and I have run one of the members here Longevity Stickweld 250. I also have a Lincoln V350-Pro. All inverters, I would suggest Everlast PA-300, or Longevity's Stickweld 250 because both have adjustable hot start, and arc force like my Lincoln V350-Pro. Even though I'm a hobbyist, I' am a little old school, these inverters just amaze me with the control they have over the puddle.:cool2:

I've looked at their machines and have been watching Markcuda's thread with great interest. My concern is equipment quality and if they are over-endowed with technology do-dads. Over the years I've found that with the proper gas mixtures and wire you can do almost anything with MIG and good welders come from experience not more dials on the machine.....I'm a lot old school. I know they have long warranty period but what's their customer service like? I know with Lincoln I can take it into a repair depot about 25 miles away. I've only had to do it once when a wire feed motor died, the machine was out of warranty but they still fixed it for free and I had it back in two days. A warranty is only as good as the organization and balance sheet behind it.

 

[Shield Arc]

I've looked at their machines and have been watching Markcuda's thread with great interest. My concern is equipment quality and if they are over-endowed with technology do-dads. Over the years I've found that with the proper gas mixtures and wire you can do almost anything with MIG and good welders come from experience not more dials on the machine.....I'm a lot old school. I know they have long warranty period but what's their customer service like? I know with Lincoln I can take it into a repair depot about 25 miles away. I've only had to do it once when a wire feed motor died, the machine was out of warranty but they still fixed it for free and I had it back in two days. A warranty is only as good as the organization and balance sheet behind it.

Well there isn't a lot to go wrong with a stick welding machine, no more sophisticated than a big battery charger.:laughing:

At least here we have Mark! Not only does he stand behind the products he sells, but he has no problem passing along his welding knowledge!:thumbsup:

 

[rankrank1]

Well my 2 cents is this:

First, I highly doubt that your Lincoln tombstone is dead. I imagine it just needs some work done on that selector switch which is really pretty easy to service. There are many rebuild threads around on servicing that switch with photos included (e.g. welding web). All parts are still available probably $10 worth of parts at most and you be good to go - and you may simply require a good cleaning and not need any parts. If you are as cheap as you claim then absoluletly nothing will last as long as an old AC welder - your grandkids will still be using it. If you shop craigslist then you might even luck out and find one of those old add-on DC rectifiers for like $30 to add DC cabability to the unit you already have.

AC/DC tombstone (or Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC or Hobart Stickmate AC/DC). I started out with a Lincoln AC225 and several years later found an older Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC at a good price. Comparing AC stick welding on each I think the Lincoln was slightly better on AC even though it was tapped setting and Miller is infinitely adjustable. I kept the Miller because it was DC though. DC allows you to run some exoctic rods (I never do), some arc starts are smidge easier (not earth shattering easier), some out of positions are supposedly a tad easier (I suck at any OOP anyway so...), if you lack mig then I do think DC biggest advantage is stableness at really low amps and the ability to switch polarity again at really low amps to avoid burn through on really thin metals (you have mig already so doubt this is huge benefit for yah). For me, I burn the exact same rods that I did when I only had AC now that I have DC and notice little difference on anything above say 60 amps. Lastly, you can add a scratch start tig torch to any DC output welder and do scratch start tig. I have done this simply because it was cheap $45 for the torch, already had an unused bottle and regulator. I have yet to really need it, but has been fun to play with. If you want to add tig torch then definitely go Miller/Hobart over the Lincoln for the infinitely adjustable amp setting over tapped. AC/DC transformer almost as durable as AC only units but Diodes will eventually fail, but easily replaced by homeowner without special tools so likely to still provide decades worth of trouble free service.

New Inverters: I have never welded with one. Lighweight would be nice if you need portability (I do not), Dual voltage operation would be nice (I do not need that either though). I imagine the arc force would be nice (Have not needed up to now though). You are not going to weld aluminum with low dollar inverters as they are DC only so no different than DC on a transformer in that regard. Inverter will use 15-20% less electricity than comparable transformer machine. If you are welding 8 hours a day 5 days a week then this electricity savings can add up. I weld only when needed so electricity savings is mute point for me. Plus I use "Twin Carbon Arc torch" for free source of intense heat for bending metal, freeing rusted nuts, brazing, etc. and you can not run "Twin carbon arc off an inverter" without frying it so that totally rules them out for me. For me, I do have no doubt that inverters can be nice and they have their place for some people, but their are lots of circuit boards that are eventually gonna fail (when who knows) but more than likely in 5-10 years you are going to need either service on it or replace it again totally because that board is no longer available. Pretty much like this computer that I am currently typing on. It works great when it works, but I have never gotten more than 6 years out of any computer before it died with failed components rendering it cheaper to replace than repair. My computer is stored in my climate controlled house. My welder is stored in my old barn that is unheated, leaks in spots, has a dirt floor, and sweats sometimes when there are drastic temperature changes. Not an environment that bodes well for electronics but will not hurt an old AC tombstone or AC/DC buzzbox one bit.

Now if I made my money or living with a welder, then I might change my mind. Having the best of the best might matter on something you are selling. Replacing high dollar equipment is not a problem if you have enough revenue to justify it - you simply pass those costs along. For me though, I am just a guy like you that repairs ole junk farm equipment and totally prefer durability and low cost over all other things. I have no one other than myself to pass high costs onto, and I simply do not use a welder enough to justify expensive equipment that is also highly likely to eventually break.

Ooh boy- sorry for the long post - LOL

 

[Mike120]

At least here we have Mark! Not only does he stand behind the products he sells, but he has no problem passing along his welding knowledge!

No doubt in my mind that he's an asset and honorable person. I'm also sure it's a good product. So were Farmtrac and Montana tractors. I just worry about getting parts for things down the road. I also suspect your welding knowledge is probably superior.

First, I highly doubt that your Lincoln tombstone is dead. I imagine it just needs some work done on that selector switch which is really pretty easy to service.

I agree....a new switch is about $45. As I said, I'd like DC and this gives me a good excuse to get a new one. This one is over 30+ years old. I'm not going to throw it away.

If you are as cheap as you claim then absoluletly nothing will last as long as an old AC welder -

My cheapness only comes out when I can build something for a fraction of what I would pay for it. I built a little 300 gal. field sprayer with a 30' boom, controls in the cab, etc for under $1K. When it comes to tools however, I have no problem parting with money. I'd rather not pay for capabilities I don't need but I also don't want to miss an opportunity because I didn't know about it.

Ooh boy- sorry for the long post - LOL

Au contraire...You pretty much answered my questions. The kicker was your point about the carbon arc torch (they are great for rusted nuts and faster than a smoke wrench) and reference to the computer boards that I hadn't considered. I'll order an AC/DC Thunderbolt in the morning. Thanks!

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I'll address the FarmTrac and Montanna jab first. One was owned by out of country people (farmtrac) AFTER it bought out a company in business for more than 30 years (LONG). Montana had people that were former Wal-Mart Execs running them and they could not think of any other way to run a farm tractor company except like wal mart. But I can counter with a example of Mahindra, which started with fits and spurts in the mid 80's. My father was one of the first dealers outside of the state of Texas. Now look at them. They eventually got it right after about 10 years, but they were committed and determined to stay in the market.

With that said, we've been here since 2004. We're owned within the states, and we are multi-national now and have been since 2009. As far as parts, go try to find a part for a welder one of the major companies that was made more than 10 years ago. It's likely the part has been superceded, or just considered obsolete and limited to existing stock. It's happened to me, so I know about this part of it. Or for that matter try to get a part for one now, that you just bought. It isn't as easy as it sounds, because they don't break down their major components into serviceable sub components. If you need a resistor on a board, or an IGBT, you have to get the whole thing, which can cost more to replace than the cost of one of our new welders. As far as our part availability, most of our parts are off the shelf components...no specially made components with the names or part numbers hidden. We use Texas instruments, IXYS, Siemens, and many other "national" brands.

As far as welding knowledge, I make no claims of superiority to anyone, but I do hold my own.

Tombstones do give problems...as do any welder. I know of several that had fan issues, switch issues, or selector issues....or worse. And most were "just" out of their warranty period.

 

[KML]

I'll address the FarmTrac and Montanna jab first. One was owned by out of country people (farmtrac) AFTER it bought out a company in business for more than 30 years (LONG). Montana had people that were former Wal-Mart Execs running them and they could not think of any other way to run a farm tractor company except like wal mart. But I can counter with a example of Mahindra, which started with fits and spurts in the mid 80's. My father was one of the first dealers outside of the state of Texas. Now look at them. They eventually got it right after about 10 years, but they were committed and determined to stay in the market.

With that said, we've been here since 2004. We're owned within the states, and we are multi-national now and have been since 2009. As far as parts, go try to find a part for a welder one of the major companies that was made more than 10 years ago. It's likely the part has been superceded, or just considered obsolete and limited to existing stock. It's happened to me, so I know about this part of it. Or for that matter try to get a part for one now, that you just bought. It isn't as easy as it sounds, because they don't break down their major components into serviceable sub components. If you need a resistor on a board, or an IGBT, you have to get the whole thing, which can cost more to replace than the cost of one of our new welders. As far as our part availability, most of our parts are off the shelf components...no specially made components with the names or part numbers hidden. We use Texas instruments, IXYS, Siemens, and many other "national" brands.

As far as welding knowledge, I make no claims of superiority to anyone, but I do hold my own.

Tombstones do give problems...as do any welder. I know of several that had fan issues, switch issues, or selector issues....or worse. And most were "just" out of their warranty period.

Mark, You have spent a lot of time on TBN along with some of the welding forums I frequent and I appreciate your investment of time to the online welding community! I am in the market for a larger multi-process machine right now and have been considering a few of your machines along with the Thermal Arc Fabricator 252i or a used Miller XMT 304. While similar in capability these machines cover a wide price range!

My take on the situation is that I would be much more interested in seeing you respond to threads like this:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/266862-i-got-1-000-spend-18.html

than in reading posts like this one where you respond to perceived "jabs". I am not opposed to "offshore" macines in the slightest, more than a few of the current Thermal Arc machines are completely manufactured in China. There are almost NO electronic components manufactured in North America any longer so all manufacturers will have "globally" sourced parts in them. The big difference is that Miller, Linciln, Thermal Arc, HyperTherm, etc. don't have to have a big forum presence to convince people they will stand behind their products, no mater where they are made, because they have decades of industry exposure proving it.

I hope this doesn't come off as a bash as that is FAR from the intent! I feel that companies like your's are WHY we have the Thermal Arcs of the world entering the lower price point welder market. Competition is good for the consumer and you have put pressure on the big boys, and they're starting to respond! This is a win for us consumers and I thank you for that!

In short, you would move farther up my consideration list if you spent more time in Mark Cuda's thread SHOWING me that you take care of your customers and less time in ones like this TELLING me you're just as good as the big dogs.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have an old Miller 350 amp transformer style AC/DC (I only use DC) with CC/CV (which I dont use but it would run a wire feeder). I think these are the most bullet proof machines around, by that I mean the style not the brand although there is nothing wrong with Miller and I have used them and Lincoln all my life in heavy construction plus a few Hobart. I think the point about storing in open or unheaded shop with moisture etc might be a good point to consider when buying. Maybe the electronics are sealed against the elements and I would hope they are, but all the fancy controls also require fancy components to work them and the possibility of instant death should one diode or transistor go out is a very real possibility. The last job I worked before retirement, the contractor bought all new 200 amp inverter machines to use with 100% TIG welding and in the 1 1/2 years of use, they replaced/repaired over half of them. These were all top brand machines (no name bashing here well ok they were ESAB) but they just didnt stand up to the constant use, if you want to call it constant as most welders only made about 20 diameter inches of weld per day which equates to welding about 60 linear inches of 1/4" thick or less material in a 10 hour day @ 60-80 amps (this was in Nigeria so labor was cheap and Unions were strong so not much work got done). This has been my only experience with the new inverter welders but it wasnt a good one. THEY do work well when working though, very smooth arc, very low power consumption also.
I love the old school stuff for my shop, pretty much going to be working when my Grandchildren are old and gray.
Oh yes, I paid $350 for my machine 4 years ago from a shop in Dallas that had it for years and never used it, they used all wire feed so he was getting rid of the machine. I have seen them on Craiglist lately for more than double that price though so I guess I got a good deal.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Mark, You have spent a lot of time on TBN along with some of the welding forums I frequent and I appreciate your investment of time to the online welding community! I am in the market for a larger multi-process machine right now and have been considering a few of your machines along with the Thermal Arc Fabricator 252i or a used Miller XMT 304. While similar in capability these machines cover a wide price range!

My take on the situation is that I would be much more interested in seeing you respond to threads like this:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/266862-i-got-1-000-spend-18.html

than in reading posts like this one where you respond to perceived "jabs". I am not opposed to "offshore" macines in the slightest, more than a few of the current Thermal Arc machines are completely manufactured in China. There are almost NO electronic components manufactured in North America any longer so all manufacturers will have "globally" sourced parts in them. The big difference is that Miller, Linciln, Thermal Arc, HyperTherm, etc. don't have to have a big forum presence to convince people they will stand behind their products, no mater where they are made, because they have decades of industry exposure proving it.

I hope this doesn't come off as a bash as that is FAR from the intent! I feel that companies like your's are WHY we have the Thermal Arcs of the world entering the lower price point welder market. Competition is good for the consumer and you have put pressure on the big boys, and they're starting to respond! This is a win for us consumers and I thank you for that!

In short, you would move farther up my consideration list if you spent more time in Mark Cuda's thread SHOWING me that you take care of your customers and less time in ones like this TELLING me you're just as good as the big dogs.

I think Mark will answer how I take care of customers himself...but instead of conversing on the forum on a weekend, I called him immediately...which was his request.

 

[Mike120]

Sorry Mark, but I don't engage in food fights. I merely asked two questions, because I was interested in what the hobbyist viewpoint was:

1) What is the real difference between stick welding, using DC on a tombstone or one of the new inverter machines? I don't think I have any real arc control issues, so what am I missing?

2)What could I use TIG for that I can't already do with MIG?

I didn't ask for brands but some were offered. I wasn't interested and stated why: "A warranty is only as good as the organization and balance sheet behind it." The unsaid reason is that I'm not interested in Chinese crap. I was just trying to be nice about it.

I did do a certain amount of research on your brand and others before I decided to ask on this forum. There is little information about your organization and even less about your balance sheet. For all I know you could just be a marketing shell peddling re-badged imported welders. I don't know, and I don't care....I never planned on buying one.
For me a welding machine is just another tool. But I rely on my tools and don't buy from Harbor Freight either.

I bought a Miller Thunderbolt and I'm happy with it as it will serve my needs. When I have time, I will take my 30+ year old tombstone apart and see what's wrong with it. I KNOW I can get parts for it. If it's worth fixing is a different subject, but I certainly got my money's worth out of it and expect the Miller will serve me well also.

 

[Mike120]

(this was in Nigeria so labor was cheap and Unions were strong so not much work got done).

Warri or Port Harcourt??? I was in both of them years ago....

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Mike, I don't know where you looked but there is plenty of information about our company. I can assure you, this year was another record year. If you had looked up our company, you would have found our forum, where we share "inside" views of our product, facility and policies. Heading to over 20k units in the field. We are about to expand our sales into Africa now, with sales hq's in 5 continents. While that may not be a lot to a company in business 50 years, it is substantial, if you figure out the growth curve. Yes, there is chinese crap. Ours is not. We are not HF either. Again, there's plenty of info out there about us and our product...and our factories that we use to produce our product. IF you are interested in balance sheets, you might want to take a close look at ITW and try to figure out why they've had continuing layoffs...and research the history of MIller and see where they were financially 20 years ago even before things went offshore.

 

[Mike120]

Yes Mark, there is plenty of information about your company. Unfortunately there is little information out there that wasn't produced by your company. I guess if you guys say it, it must be true. The Bay Area BBB gives you guys a "F" but I'm sure that's just a misunderstanding. I'm really not sure if Oleg has done a very good job of building up the company or just a very good job of providing misinformation. I really don't care because I'm not buying any of it.

You are awfully defensive for being the king of the site. It's very difficult to determine who are your elves and how many zombies you've managed to produce. You've done a reasonably good job on this one. Try not to totally screw it up like some of the other welding forums Everlast and Longitivity have ruined. If nothing else, you can write a book on forum marketing.

As I said previously "I don't engage in food fights". I dropped in to ask a couple of questions, I got my answers (sort of) and acted on it. I certainly did not stop by to converse with marketing trolls or their elves and zombies. To the legitimate posters thank you all for your answers.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

For someone not interested in food fights, your plate is awfully full of junk food. If you have read or monitored my activities here, you know we are not in troll marketing. You also don't know how the BBB works. Anyone that has run a business will tell you about it. It's the next best thing to organized thugs who come around selling you "insurance" so your place won't get broken into.
It's been taken to task lately because of it's pay up or else... tactics.

After being here for going on our 3rd year, (again if you'd take notice) you'd see the only problems we have are people that like to screw the forum up by coming by with their plates full of junk food.:confused3: Whenever you have a company that markets aggressively, your going to have someone that thinks it is a crime.

There's no king, prince or pauper on this forum. We help sponsor this forum...that's it.
NONE, I repeat NONE, of these guys comments about our product have been solicited, or paid for. I imagine the troll and elves, and zombies comment was directed toward them?
But if you are happy, I'm glad you got the answers you wanted.

 

[FredH]

Don't Own any Everlast Equipment , nor paid by Everlast , But seeing how Mark has Always been there for people , ( Customer Service ) Who do own the Equipment , I Don't See a Problem . In Fact Mark has even Helped People here Who have Other brands of Welding Equipment / Plasma Cutters on addressing their issue's / problems and trying to solve them . Don't Really see that type of Customer Service from Lincoln or Miller do You .

Also Really Agree With Mark on the B.B.B. , Use to be a Good evaluation of Companies , But any more , it is basically nothing more than a " Buy Your Rating " situation . I Know several companies around here that have Great ratings by the BBB , But the State Government Agencies show a whole different picture as do previous customers reviews , similar to Contractor Boards .

Fred H

 

[Gary Fowler]

Warri or Port Harcourt??? I was in both of them years ago....

I was in Warri for this job for 2 1/2 years. I have been thru Port Harcourt travelling to the Bonny Island facility. I spent a week there auditing the QA/QC of a project KBR had there about 7 years ago. NOT a fun place to be, not that Warri was fun either. Armed guard movement from camp to worksite and back and any travel to contractors offices had to be planned ahead by security and minimum of 2 vehicles full of AK 47 armed police escorts where ever we went. The money was excellent though and I bought 2 new tractors, a shop and a boat shed extension plus build my retirement house all free and clear from working there.