What does this do?

[Quantumkev]

First post!
I just bought an OLD Ford 4500 Backhoe/loader and the valve packs for the loader and backhoe are different to any others I have seen. They seem to have an additional isolation valve. Was wondering if this is common, and what is the purpose. Pics attached so you can see what I am talking about.

Appreciate any help/comments you can give!!!

 

[Tinhack]

Looks like a diverter but it may be used as a speed valve. That's just a guess though.

 

[azbinder]

Question #1 Is the valve at the backhoe spring centered and where do the hoses go?

Question #2 Does the selector valve on the loader control the backhoe? I used to work for a Ford dealer years ago and have operated the 4500's but it's been way too many years. I do remember the selector valve but don't remember what it does.

 

[Quantumkev]

Question #1 Is the valve at the backhoe spring centered and where do the hoses go? - It doesn't seem to have a center, it is just two positions, either "On" or "Off"

Question #2 Does the selector valve on the loader control the backhoe? I used to work for a Ford dealer years ago and have operated the 4500's but it's been way too many years. I do remember the selector valve but don't remember what it does. - No. Power comes off the hydraulic pump, and goes towards the backhoe. The line splits and goes to the loader and backhoe from the same high pressure line. It goes directly onto the loader controls, but it goes through "something" else, photo attached of what it goes through, and then it goes "through" the valve that is the subject of this message (see photo in first post), and then finally it delivers power to the backhoe.

Let me know if I can provide any more information.

 

[Quantumkev]

Sorry, forgot to add photo for the post above. See attached.

Connections on this valve are

Inlet on the left, is high pressure directly from the hydraulic pump.

Outlet on the right, delivers high pressure to the valve that is the subject of this post.

Outlet on the bottom is drain to tank

(I assume this valve is some kind of pressure regulator?)

 

[WranglerX]

Sorry, forgot to add photo for the post above. See attached.

Connections on this valve are

Inlet on the left, is high pressure directly from the hydraulic pump.

Outlet on the right, delivers high pressure to the valve that is the subject of this post.

Outlet on the bottom is drain to tank

(I assume this valve is some kind of pressure regulator?)

As a WAG (Wild A$$ Guess) I would say its a pressure relief valve....

 

[LD1]

The last pic looks like a relief of some kind that is feeding the other valve on the backhoe.

IT dont look original.

Where do the hoses off the valve go? Does the backhoe have some other attachment like a hydraulic thumb?

Have you tried running the machine and operating that valve and see what it does?

I'd replace a few of them hoses....dont like that location of that hose loop and valve when sitting on the backhoe operating. Makes me cringe

 

[oldnslo]

First post!
I just bought an OLD Ford 4500 Backhoe/loader and the valve packs for the loader and backhoe are different to any others I have seen. They seem to have an additional isolation valve. Was wondering if this is common, and what is the purpose. Pics attached so you can see what I am talking about.

Appreciate any help/comments you can give!!!

the first picture shows a lever operated directional valve that is connected directly to the pressure port via the gray hose. Where does the black hose go? This valve could be by-passing all the pump flow to some other function.

Second picture shows what appears to be a push-pull diverter valve. What do the lines going to that valve connect to?

 

[Quantumkev]

Based on the first pictures, the outlet of the pump connects to what I think is a pressure relief valve via the stainless steel tube you see coming in in the bottom left of the picture. I assume what is going on in that valve is the pressure from the pump passes straight through that valve, and then if the pressure spikes it bleeds off through this pressure relief valve through the raggedy looking hose coming out the bottom of that relief valve. (Second to bottom left in the picture).

But the main line from the pump comes out of the relief valve via the grey looking hose and into what you call the pressure port of the lever operated directional control valve. The black hose from this then connects onto the backhoe. From what I have seen these two valves have been added on and are not standard. From what I can tell the black hose connects onto the back hoe where on standard equipment the pressure line from the pump normally connects.

So this appears to be an “on/off” switch for hydraulic fluid. It either allows fluid to pass to the backhoe controls, or it “dead heads” the hydraulic pump against this valve until the pressure relief valve starts passing fluid.

I have no idea what the purpose/intent of these two valves is….

Any help/insight would be appreciated.

I will get more pictures next time I get over to the hoe, and I will work on a schematic

 

[LD1]

Based on the first pictures, the outlet of the pump connects to what I think is a pressure relief valve via the stainless steel tube you see coming in in the bottom left of the picture. I assume what is going on in that valve is the pressure from the pump passes straight through that valve, and then if the pressure spikes it bleeds off through this pressure relief valve through the raggedy looking hose coming out the bottom of that relief valve. (Second to bottom left in the picture).

But the main line from the pump comes out of the relief valve via the grey looking hose and into what you call the pressure port of the lever operated directional control valve. The black hose from this then connects onto the backhoe. From what I have seen these two valves have been added on and are not standard. From what I can tell the black hose connects onto the back hoe where on standard equipment the pressure line from the pump normally connects.

So this appears to be an “on/off” switch for hydraulic fluid. It either allows fluid to pass to the backhoe controls, or it “dead heads” the hydraulic pump against this valve until the pressure relief valve starts passing fluid.

I have no idea what the purpose/intent of these two valves is….

Any help/insight would be appreciated.

I will get more pictures next time I get over to the hoe, and I will work on a schematic

You are doing yourself zero favors with your description. Sorry to put it bluntly.

We can see the relationship between what we assume us a PRV and the valve on the BH. Those are pictured.

But when you say the steel line is coming from the pump........

Is it coming directly from the pump? Are you sure its a pump? Or are you just assuming since its a hardline and doesnt go to the hoe anywhere that its the inlet and comes from pump somehow?

And then the black hose exiting the control valve....you say:

From what I can tell the black hose connects onto the back hoe where on standard equipment the pressure line from the pump normally connects

That is 100% ZERO HELP.

WHERE does it go? To the backhoe valve? What port? Labeled P, Or IN? Somewhere else? MAybe a picture showing where it goes?

 

[Quantumkev]

Steel line coming from the pump - I physically traced the line back and it connects to the outlet of the pump on the pressure side.

Black hose - the backhoe is a removable attachement. As such on “standard” equipment the back hoe would have a pressure connection, and a tank connection, so if you were to remove the backhoe after it is physically dismounted from the tractor you would disconnect the pressure and tank lines, then you would be able to drive the tractor away, leaving the backhoe where it sits. The black hose connects to the backhoe pressure line. From there it goes to the valve pack.

The fact that the 2 valves I am trying to figure out are physically mounted to the backhoe is purely coincidental (but probably convenient). They are not part of the original equipment, they have been added on.

Hopefully this helps, or let me know if I can provide more clarity.

 

[LD1]

Steel line coming from the pump - I physically traced the line back and it connects to the outlet of the pump on the pressure side.

Black hose - the backhoe is a removable attachement. As such on “standard” equipment the back hoe would have a pressure connection, and a tank connection, so if you were to remove the backhoe after it is physically dismounted from the tractor you would disconnect the pressure and tank lines, then you would be able to drive the tractor away, leaving the backhoe where it sits. The black hose connects to the backhoe pressure line. From there it goes to the valve pack.

The fact that the 2 valves I am trying to figure out are physically mounted to the backhoe is purely coincidental (but probably convenient). They are not part of the original equipment, they have been added on.

Hopefully this helps, or let me know if I can provide more clarity.

Well the one on the side, that has the black hose coming off the bottom does indeed look like a type of relief valve. Where does the hose off the bottom go? Just back to tank?

The valve that is mounted on the control tower to the backhoe goes nowhere. It does nothing. Its just an open center valve that is serving NO purpose at this moment beyond what a simple coupler would do.

Now in the past it may have ran an attachment or hydraulic thumb. But since there are no other hoses, and the work ports are blocked off.....it has no function, and nothing to figure out

 

[rScotty]

OK. Guys, for me it is getting to that point where I need to sit down and draw out a sketch of the system as it is - and at the same time I also try to find a good flow diagram of the original as it was made.

It takes longer than you would think to do it properly - but it is time and money saved eventually as the drawing accumulates details like cylinder specs, attachment types, hoses, even type of hydraulic fitting used. BTW, there are a bewildering variety of hydraulic fitting types...way too many.

A lot of times you get some help particularly with cast iron valves and control devices which tend to have model info cast into the body of the casting. And along with that, most ports also have a brief port designation cast nearby. Common examples on loader valves are: IN, OUT, PB, R, & T.

I feel like you are getting closer. It helps us TBN regulars to work with someone mechanical.

rScotty

 

[WranglerX]

Could this actually be a control valve with the A&B ports plugged... And exactly what is gray hose connected to (on left side), another valve body( a "TEE" fitting)?...

 

[LD1]

Could this actually be a control valve with the A&B ports plugged... And exactly what is gray hose connected to (on left side), another valve body( a "TEE" fitting)?...

Yes, its just a control valve with teh work ports plugged. Like maybe the thing had a thumb at one time that was removed?

The thing on the side is just a pressure regulator

 

[Quantumkev]

Ok, I won’t get out there till later this week, but I will start getting a hydraulic schematic together.

I have been trying to find one for the original equipment, but it is somewhat problematic. The 4500 was an industrial tractor on its own, and it seems the 753 hoe and 450 loader were options that may, or may not have shipped with it originally, or added later…. As such there does not seem to be a good overall schematic…. Unless anyone knows a good direction to point me in???

Thanks for all y’all help so far!

 

[LD1]

Ok, I won’t get out there till later this week, but I will start getting a hydraulic schematic together.

I have been trying to find one for the original equipment, but it is somewhat problematic. The 4500 was an industrial tractor on its own, and it seems the 753 hoe and 450 loader were options that may, or may not have shipped with it originally, or added later…. As such there does not seem to be a good overall schematic…. Unless anyone knows a good direction to point me in???

Thanks for all y’all help so far!

TAke a bucket of hydraulic oil with you.

Also take some more pics of the machine as a whole. Even the model number/code on the little flat area by the starter just to confirm.

The 753 was not as common on the 4500....the 755 was the more common backhoe attachment for them. And dont know where you get 450 loader at. Never heard of that as a loader designation. But the 4500 should have came equipped with the 740 loader attachment

 

[Quantumkev]

I called the loader a 450 because this is the tag on it.

Is that not the correct designation for the loader?

 

[LD1]

No that's a Ford component ID number

That's gonna be worthless if you need to order parts.

Step back and take a picture of the loader as a whole. They are supposed to be the 740 loader. But lots of parts and machines got frankensteined over the years so who knows what's actually on it