What DO I need??

Dartagnan · May 21, 2004

Thanks for all the response folks,

I'm going to run over to the local NH dealer tomorrow morning, then down to the Kioti guy. I'm just afraid that I'm going to be in for some serious sticker shock after the quote I got on the farm pro.

Any suggestions as to what I should take care to notice as differences (good or bad) between these two brands?

How do I recognize a "good" dealer, I mean you can't (shouldn't anyway) shoot the whole dealership just because the salesman you get happens to be "bubba the used car guy". What are the key things to look for, When I'm looking for a car, I always check the shop...is it clean, what's in the back lot...and frankly I'm not impressed with multi million dollar show rooms...somebody paid for that.

Any hints or personal experience would be appreciated.

TIA
Dart

frank_f15 · May 21, 2004

i would think something in the 30 to35 hp range would do u, you say u have another 14 acres farther south? how much farther and remember the bigger the tractor the bigger the rig to haul it.

Bob_Skurka · May 21, 2004

Dart, go talk to the parts guy and ask him how long it normally takes to get simple things like oil filters, belts, hoses. Hopefully the answer is that those are all in stock. Generally try to get a feel for their shop.

Also, I think you should do yourself a HUGE favor and ONLY consider a tractor that has a hydrostatic transmission. This is a big safety issue that you need to consider. A guy who grew up on a gear tractor will tell you a gear machine will do everything a HST machine will do, but as a city boy who moved to the country a decade ago, and who likes to restore gear tractors but who only uses modern tractors, let me just say that on hills you really really want a HST transmission. The last thing you want to do is try to use your right hand to manipulate your FEL with a log on it while trying to find low reverse while looking backwards so you don't drive off the edge of anything as your left hand turns the steering wheel. I almost layed one of my tractors on its side on smooth flat asphalt while backing and turning, trust me when I say it is easier to tip on uneven ground.

As for prices between a NH and a Jinma. You need to compare features on an apples to apples basis, not tractors with similar HP engines. HST transmissions automatically add about $1000. Does the 3pt have position control? Ag tires or R4's? (you can mow the lawn with R4's or you can tear up the lawn with Ag tires). Lots of little things to look at.

And I still think you should strongly consider a PT.

Henro · May 21, 2004

let me just say that on hills you really really want a HST transmission.

That is the way I feel too. I am really glad I have an HST when I am threading between trees on my back hill, especially with the brush hog on back, but really all the time...

What I like best is that there is no need to clutch, I can stop and reverse direction, go as slow as I like, and always have the connection between the engine and the ground...

I keep telling myself this is a safety advantage. But having never owned a gear tractor I don't know for sure. But it sure FEELS LIKE it is... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

KNotMe · May 22, 2004

The last thing you want to do is try to use your right hand to manipulate your FEL with a log on it while trying to find low reverse while looking backwards so you don't drive off the edge of anything as your left hand turns the steering wheel 

 I think you have clearly explained why a tractor with HST is BETTER than one with a geared transmission. We only have a pair of hands, and for good control of steering BOTH hands are expected to be on the steering while moving. A compromise is a machine that frees up one hand.

Bob_Skurka · May 22, 2004

I think it is reasonable to compramise on a lot of things, but safety is not one of them.

Based on the original post we have someone new to tractors with terrain that would challenge an experienced tractor user. A tractor with a hyrdrostactic transmission should be factored into the budget even if many other options need to be bypassed because of budget constraints. I think given his terrain, the second most important factor would be stability which favors a w-i-d-e machine with a l_o_w center of gravity.

Dartagnan · May 23, 2004

Again, Thanks for the response,

Regarding the PT models, I might be interested in them when I start improving the Cosby property, but right now the Proprietary<sp>? impliments seem just a little too costly for my budget. And the idea ofhaving to wait on shipping for some thing I might need today instead of just going to the nearest co-op, puts me off a little bit. Otherwise they look like an incredible machine.

Regarding HST/Shuttle/Gear.
Still researching this, I agree that the idea of one foot ops instead of two feet+ hand makes a lot of sense. What I'm worried about is repair costs after warranty Expires, Just based on engineering of the hydro units there are pieces that are going to wear out and need replacing, with a shuttle it's limited to the actual clutch (barring bad maint/abuse). I've been inside auto trannys before, they're heavy, complicated, and expensive to repair, I expect that hydro's are even worse.
I've not made the decision on this matter yet tho, but with budget being what it is, I have to take the extra HP I can purchase w/o hydro into account, especially knowing that it's going to be at least 5 years before I really start using it on the hilly stuff.

That said, I drove a friends TC45D last night. Awesome piece of equip. I found the shuttle very easy to op, the f/r shift is located just like a turn signal on your car and given a few hours of practice I think it would become second nature to shift. He has the Woods loader verses NH, is there really $1000 worth of improved visability with the curved arms?

I did stop by a NH dealer yesterday, not too impressed with the pricing he gave me, real close to list from what I've seen posted here, but he was extremly helpful, gave me plenty of time(president of the company) and the place was hopping. Where as the Kubota guy came in pretty close to the "Good" price on that web site listed here somewhere, but this place had 0 customers while I was there, does that mean ppl don't need Kubota parts or that they would rather shop elswhere?? Hmmmm....

Still attacking the curve...
Dart

Bob_Skurka · May 23, 2004

Regarding the PT models, I might be interested in them when I start improving the Cosby property, but right now the Proprietary<sp>? impliments seem just a little too costly for my budget. And the idea ofhaving to wait on shipping for some thing I might need today instead of just going to the nearest co-op, puts me off a little bit. Otherwise they look like an incredible machine.


I think if you buy a traditional tractor then you will lock yourself into that style machine and simply because you will have purchased implements that won't work with the PT in the future. That said, and since you say they look like an incredible machine. I think you should try to find out more about them before making the decision for any particular brand. Especially because if you buy a good tractor now, you won't need to replace it in 5 or 10 or even 15+ years. So when you begin to improve the "Cosby" property you'd still have a good 10+ years worth of life in the machine (and probably a lot more).

Regarding the cost of the PT implements, I would agree that they are more expensive than any of the bargain 3pt brands, but they are very price competitive to the better brands of 3pt equipment and they sure seem to be very heavily built so the price is actually very competitive for the quality you seem to get.

 Regarding HST/Shuttle/Gear.
Still researching this, I agree that the idea of one foot ops instead of two feet+ hand makes a lot of sense. What I'm worried about is repair costs after warranty Expires, Just based on engineering of the hydro units there are pieces that are going to wear out and need replacing For what it is worth, I have never had any repairs to any of my HST transmissions. I have had to repair transmissions on gear machines. And for the safety factor I'd opt for the HST every day every time. Especially with the hills.

I really think you need to look at the long term use of the machine and buy the tractor that will be the best choice for the long haul. You might not need some of the benefits of a PT today, but you might find them a life saver in the future. And if you are using a tractor in the woods, it is tough to beat an articulated unit.

As for your comment about buying the most HP your dollars will allow, I would probably disagree. Regardless of what brand you decide to buy, you should find one thing holds true. A small tractor will do everything a big tractor will do, it will just take a bit more time to do it. And since you also need to mow the lawn (and if I recall correctly from your 1st post we are not talking about a field, we are talking about a couple acres), please realize that the bigger tractor will likely make that task last longer because they are harder to turn an harder to operate in tight spaces.

A lot of people recommend bigger is better. I tend to disagree and recommend finding out what you actually do and then finding the best overall machine for those tasks.

Chechnya · May 23, 2004

I did a little research and found http://www.chiltontractor.com/ in Wartburg, Tn. They carry New Holland and Long. Check out the TC33D and TC35D

Henro · May 23, 2004

I've been inside auto trannys before, they're heavy, complicated, and expensive to repair, I expect that hydro's are even worse. 

I'm not sure...but someone here posted something that caused me to believe that the HST is actually quite simple. Sorry I forget who posted this, but the point that was made was that the HST is so simple [it's not an automoble transmission tractor style] that it should actually cost less than gear transmissions, not more. Us buyers are just willing to pay more for HST so the sellers charge more...so the poster said anyway.

There have been tons of posts regarding gear vs HST durability. In the end it comes down to experience. Gear transmissions have been around for a hundred years probably. You can find an really old gear tractor still working perfectly. HSTs have not been around more than maybe 30 years in common use. So you can't find a 100 year old HST operating perfectly. They don't exist.

My take on the reliability issue is that it is probably a wash with both being very reliable and an occasional lemon showing up now and then...