Well / water shutoff question.

[Ken_f]

I see that we have well related questions all of the time here and I have learned a great deal from the different topics.

I am in the process of finishing my basement and I want to make sure that I don't have a pipe burst and flood all of my sheetrock / carpeting.

My well is a submersible type and I have a pressure tank in the basement. I see that they sell shutoff valves that will lose a valve if the wires that you place on the floor detect water. But, with the well pump still on, if you had a break on the black line entering the basement you would still have a flood.

My question is has anyone seen a device that just shuts off the pump ??? It would be easy to hook up and if you did have a break you would only have to worry about the pressure tank and the lines in the house.

I searched the web but I can't seem to find a electrical type.

Thanks for any info.

Ken

 

[thcri]

I am not sure if I totally understand your question, but if you can turn off a valve electrically, you sure should be able to shut the pump down electrically. Instead of your device turning off the valve have it turn off the pump. Now you may have to put a relay in the system since your device may not be able to handle a pump.

murph

 

[turnkey4099]

That is correct. Shut off the pump power, not the valve or you might burn out the pump trying to pump against a blockage. I made the mistake of trying to prime a pump with the valve shut. Pump just hammered at it, on/off repeatedly in less than a second.

Harry K

 

[Junkman]

This is like worrying about an earthquake. They seldom happen unless you live in a fault area. I have never had the black pipe rupture in over 30 years of well operation. In fact, I only know of one person that had a black pipe develop a leak. It was the drop pipe in the well, that wasn't properly centered by the well spacers. It rubbed on the well wall and developed a a leak that required the pump to be pulled and the pipe replaced. I don't believe that the black plastic pipe is very problematic in actuality. The tank leaking is a greater possibility.

 

[turnkey4099]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This is like worrying about an earthquake. They seldom happen unless you live in a fault area. I have never had the black pipe rupture in over 30 years of well operation. In fact, I only know of one person that had a black pipe develop a leak. It was the drop pipe in the well, that wasn't properly centered by the well spacers. It rubbed on the well wall and developed a a leak that required the pump to be pulled and the pipe replaced. I don't believe that the black plastic pipe is very problematic in actuality. The tank leaking is a greater possibility. )</font>

Quite true. The most likely failure is the hot water heater (yes, yes, I know, you don't heat hot water) Either from tank itself leaking or blowing up from lack of a PRV or even failure of the PRV valve not shutting off after it activates. Even those failures are not common.

Harry K

 

[ByronBob]

Ken
I'd say make sure you have water damage insurance against a rupture and be good with that. We all live with this type of situation even if we have public water. I just remember to tun off the pump in the breaker panel if were going away for longer than the day. If your home or even away for the day and you have a break your sump will take care of it.

I've never heard of a switch as you mention. My well is submersible also.

 

[bczoom]

Ken,

Have you considered the sensors that just have an audible alarm? Sensor goes on floor and has about 6' of wire to a 85db alarm. If I recall correctly, they're only about $5. I put one next to the hot water tank, another where all the water "stuff" is (pressure tank, water conditioner...).

If you turn off the power for the pump as Bob is suggesting, make sure you consider the equivalent to any water conditioner as well. Watch out for battery backups also. Don't know what would happen if the conditioner goes into its recycle mode but no water is coming through.

 

[thcri]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ken
I'd say make sure you have water damage insurance against a rupture and be good with that. We all live with this type of situation even if we have public water. I just remember to tun off the pump in the breaker panel if were going away for longer than the day. If your home or even away for the day and you have a break your sump will take care of it.

I've never heard of a switch as you mention. My well is submersible also. )</font>

We all hate insurance claims. Sometimes things can't be replaced by insurance. We use to many years ago, not so much any more, install 24volt valves on the incoming water line of houses. When people would leave during winter vacations they use to just flip a switch on the way out the door. This was on city lines. This way if the house did freeze up it would not make a major mess with the water running for a week or so. From the valve to where the line went into concrete it was insulated and that protion never seem to freeze up.

murph

 

[Bird]

Even if you're not worried about a freeze, some of us are just a bit more cautious than others. Just before we left a week ago Friday to go out of town for a week, I flipped off the breaker for the water heater, then turned off the water at the meter. It only takes a minute or so, and I'm sure was completely unnecessary, but since it was so easy, why not be sure. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[ByronBob]

That's what I meant also Bird. When you go somewhere overnight or longer just kill the power. It's routine after you do it once or twice

 

[bczoom]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I flipped off the breaker for the water heater, then turned off the water at the meter. It only takes a minute or so, and I'm sure was completely unnecessary, but since it was so easy, why not be sure. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )</font>

Not sure if I should start a new thread but want to ask.

In a case when you're leaving for an extended period, what should you do with the water conditioner(s)? If the water is off and it says it's time to regenerate, what will the water conditioner do? Can/will it get damaged?

I have a couple tanks. The carbon tank, I can just unplug and stop the timer. Reset the timer on return.

The other one I have is more computerized and has a battery backup as well. If I turn off the power, I "assume" the battery backup will run all functions. Am I correct or will it just retain the memory settings for what the hardness level, capacity, time of day... and not start any regeneration? I just checked the manual and there was nothing about shutting it down.

 

[Bird]

Good question, Brian, but since I have no experience with those conditioners, I have no idea what you do about them.

 

[Ken_f]

Thanks for the ideas.

Sure I have insurance.... But, its a pain to fix everything. Also, one of the new rooms in the basement is a office with computers which I want to sit on the floor to help free up desk space.

My house is 15 years old and the plumbing is up to date. We do go on long trips from time to time and I do shut off the water heaters. I have yet to turn off the water as I was worried about the foot valve in the pump. I guess it would not be a problem with a submersible pump vs. a top of the well jet pump.

I am just the type that prepares for everything that I can. I figured it would be one less thing to worry about. I think I will install one of the valve type right after the pressure tank. I agree that the black poly pipe is very strong and my failure world probably not come from that.

Just trying to increase my odds against Murphy's law.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[Phred]

If you really want to do this use a contactor or a solid state relay (SSR).

The basic idea is what your pressure switch does.
This pressure switch is basicaly a relay that interrupts power to the pump when your pressure tank reaches the value set on the switch.

So using the same principle, put a solid state relay in series with you pressure switch. Such as:
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Omron%20Web%20Data/G3NA.pdf
Then use a water detector switch, such as
http://www.automatedaquariums.com/gri2800.htm
to control the SSR.

Caution: You need to make sure the SSR is rated for the pump and then some. Also you would need to heatsink the SSR. When in doubt seek advise from the manufacturer.

The SSR is probably not the exact right part for you since it would depend on your pump configuration. I just pulled this one out as an example.

Also you may need normally on or normally open depending on the output of the water detector.

Fred

 

[Inspector507]

Just turn off the power to the pump before you leave /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Phred]

Ken,

Another thought and perhaps easier would be to put a disconnect in series with the pump power.
http://www.eatonelectrical.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=C-H/Common/AssetTemplateLink&c=Apubarticles&cid=982251449845&Sec=products
This way when you go away on vacation you just flip the power off to the pump. Using a breaker is a bad idea since they are not designed for a large number of on and off cycles.

Also you might want to think about using one of those water heater drip pans for your water heater and pressure tank. If you plumb them to a drain that would at least take care of any leaks at these points.

Fred