Well water filter??

[swiftboot]

I recently had a well put down in Cent florida. I havent seen any well in this general area that doesnt have iron in the water that settles in containers. I have an eighth inch of "rust" settle in a quart jar of water. At my present residence I use a cylinder from one of the well known companies that filters out the iron and other impurities. Unfortunatly this cylinder is a three quarter in and out and my water line from pump to house is a one inch. It seems i would loose some pressure at the new location, so the question is would i loose too much pressure with this system on the new well?? I have been told by some that a potassium promagnate filter (with a 1 in and 1 out) would better suit my use. Initial cost of the potassium promagnate filter installation would be high, but then one only replaces the potassium as needed, does anyone have any experience with this type of filter? Sorry for the long post, but made it as short as i could, thanks much, chuck

 

[JoeR]

I asked numerous people about potassium promagnate , and was told it was very messy. I really don't think you would notice much difference between 3/4 and 1 inch when used with showers and household appliances.

At my old house, I had a 290' well and used a chlorinator/dechlorinator system to remove the iron. I had lots of problem with the chlorine metering pump, and it required a huge 80 gallon tank which allowed the iron to collect and settle to the bottom. Then I had to have a chlorine tank too.

Currently, I have a simple water softener from Sears. I like it since the brine tank and salt tank are all in one. I have one pipe in, and one pipe out. No daisy chaining between two pieces.

I think my salt water softener does a better job than my old chlorine system, and it easier to maintain. As long as you get the right hardness setting, you are good to go. By the way, I buy the salt that has citric acid to help remove the iron.

All that said, some softener are only capable of removing a certain amount of iron. It depends on how much iron you really have, then you might be stuck with a chlorine system since it can handle the highest levels of iron.

Joe

 

[Mike_Lipke]

If you put the filter between the pump and your pressure tank, you will not have any pressure loss to your plmg. fixtures. Most are clear now, so you can see when it is getting dirty and change it before it starts to make the pump work too hard.
Be sure to put a valve on each side of the filter, as it makes changing the filter soooooooo much easier.

 

[MadReferee]

High iron content is commonplace here in New Hampshire and my well produces reddish water. I have used a potassium permanganate (PP) backwashed filter for the last 26 years with no problems.

My system first injects a soda ash water soultion to the incoming water to soften it as soft water is easier to filter. When the water is drawn down from the pressure holding tank it goes thru the filter and out thru the house. The PP is used only to backwash the filter as it chemically removes the trapped iron from the filter.

The PP is stored in a small cylinder attached to the larger water filter cylinder. We have it professionally serviced and refilled every 18-24 months. Service/refilling ususally runs around $200. When the filtered water starts to slightly change colors and you get a rust stain it is time to immediately replenish the PP. You should really never let this happen.

Water usage rate will determine backwash frequency. When all the kids were growing up we backwashed every other night. Now we backwash every 4th night.

My water service guy told me that there are better systems and cheaper systems on the market today to remove iron, even in high concentrations. PP is very nasty stuff that permanently stains anything purple. If my filter ever fails (and it will someday) I will upgrade to the latest technology.

 

[swiftboot]

Thanks to all who responded. I have done further research and the Fleck brand system with greensand filter and PM backwash seems to be what is needed. The only thing now is to determine how often it will require a backwash. Being single with occassional overnite guests, i suspect not too often. I also intend to have a raw water source for yard irrigation prior to the filter. Some folks out my way use water softners for the iron removal, but i just dont like the feel of the water, cant seem to wash off the soap /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I will post again with the results and cost of system when its installed in the event somone else is interested. Again thanks to everyone, this TBN group is really helpful. chuck

 

[mikim]

OK ... being new to wells and trying to learn .... what is a "PM backwash"? Tell me what you finally end up with ... and tell me as if I were a first grader - cause when it comes to well water - I am.

 

[MadReferee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only thing now is to determine how often it will require a backwash. Being single with occassional overnite guests, i suspect not too often. )</font>

Depending on your iron content and actual gallonage usage, you could probably get away with once a week or once every 10 days. The timer on your backwash system may limit the maximum number of days between backwash periods. Mine does.

Also, water that is more soft than hard will be easier to filter iron. You don't have to have the water feeling slimey but softer is better for iron filtering. Your installer should be able to do a ph test to determine if softening is necessary.

 

[Keoke]

Chuck, when in doubt about gpm flow through a single filter consider using two similiar filters in parallel.
As mentioned earlier, putting isolater ball valves both sides of any filter will make service a lot easier.
With two filters in parallel put valves before the splitting tee.

cheers,

 

[swiftboot]

I will attempt an explanation and i am sure it will not be sufficient but am confident that someone will jump in and correct me. The water, under pressure, enters a chamber, normally a upright cyclinder about 54" tall and 10" diameter. This cylinder contains something called "greensand" as a filtering media. The water is forced thru this media and exits to the supply line to the home. Depending on the filter media, various things happen but mainly it filters out the iron and some other impurities before the water enters the line to the home. As you can imagine, the filter would eventually be saturated with the iron and other substances that have been filtered from the 'raw' water. Now comes the potassium promanganate, contained in a separate vessel but plumbed to the upright cylinder on a timer. Depending on the amount of iron (in my case) that is filtered out, ie. more iron - quicker saturated filter media, a timer is set to backwash the filter media to clean it with the potassium Promanganate solution. This backwash is plumbed to be dumped on the ground or other suitable area. Have read where some with setup in basement put it in barrels or other suitable containers. The timers are usually set (user programable) to backflow the filter at 2:00am so as not to interfere with one's normal use. Unfortunately i used the initials PM instead of PP in my other post. When you stop laughing with my explanation, you may post any other questions you may have, after all, i am learning as well. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif chuck

 

[MadReferee]

That was a PERFECT explanation of what actually happens. The green sand filter is just a little bit bigger than the average size oxygen cylinder used for welding. The potasium permanganate is in a small thin cylinder that is connected as you described.

My backwash water is plumbed into the garage and outside perimeter drain system and eventually makes it way to a dry well out back in the woods. You don't want to dump this stuff into your septic system.

Everything is still running just fine after 26 years.

 

[mikim]

OK ... I posted earlier this a.m. in the wrong place ...but I received my report from the driller last night - iron=.5, ph=8, and hardness=11 .... is this good? bad? average? Do these numbers determine what media I should use in a filter? I see GAC is a media in some searching I've just started .... but I'm seeing a lot of filtering for use on city systems ...... guess I need to narrow my searches. ... I obviously have a lot of learning to do. It's a good thing I have lots of time to learn - the house won't be started for a few years yet. I'm going to build a small weekend suite in the barn I hope to have up by end of year though - that'll be a good testing/learning area.

 

[swiftboot]

I cant help with the values you have been given. I think iron content is given in ppm. It has been reported here and i have read where softer water will be easier to filter or at least the filter will be more efficent in filtering iron with the soft water. May i suggesnt watervalue.com with a google search. Very informative site as well as various equipment for sale. I also built a barn initially and put a travel trailer in it for living quarters for temp arrangement, that was 23 years ago. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If possible, perhaps your well and associated filters etc, could be located so it could be used in your home when it is completed unlike my planning. The five "P's" come in handy with this endeavor. thanks, chuck

 

[swiftboot]

I certainly appreciate your explanation of how your system operates. I was concerned about the reliablility, but with the years of service you have gotten from your unit convinces me that this is the system for me. thanks, chuck

 

[swiftboot]

I have used the filters you describe in earlier applications. I think you are describing the cartridge type filter that is replaced occassionally. Unfortuanately, those filters had to be changed too often due the amount of iron in the water of my current well. And i concur with your idea of a valve placed on either side of the filter, otherwise a shower is in order. I am sure for a lesser iron content well the cartridge would perform adequately. thanks, chuck

 

[swiftboot]

My neighbor has a water softner as you describe, it is a rental unit from Culligan. He merely adds salt as required and any service required is the company's responsibility. While it does filter most of the iron, his water still has some iron content. I will investigate the chlorine system as well, but on the surface, it seems an 80 gallon chlorine tank would not be desirable. Thanks, chuck

 

[WhyNot]

I have been told that green sand is made with arsnic. The trouble with iron is there are different types one system will filter one and not the other. The softener I have uses I believe SST resin in it and is claimed to last 25 year's and only uses 11 lbs of salt once a week.

 

[MadReferee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have been told that green sand is made with arsnic. )</font>

That's funny, only because you are from New Jersey. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Greensand is also known as New Jersey greensand and it does not, and never has, contained any natural arsenic.

You can read all about it HERE.

 

[GaryQWA]

The .5 ppm of iron is but a trace and any dealer proposing the use of a greensand filter is selling you way more than needed. A correctly sized Birm filter will suffice. There can not be any H2S for the use of Birm and there is an acceptable pH range.

Backwashed and/or regenerated (greensand) filters come in any size needed. The water treatment industry is trying to get away from the use of potassium permanganate, a serious poison.

The 5600 control can only be used on filters using no larger than a 10" dia tank. A 10" x 54" tank is for 1.5 cuft softeners or filters. The size of the unit depends on your peak demand flow rate and for greensand you would not be able to successfuly backwash more than 2 cuft with most well water sytem pumps. Greensand is very heavy mineral and 1.5 cuft will have a max gpm flow rate of 5 gpm. Over 5 gpm, you won't get all the iorn out of the water.

Soda ash increases pH, it doesn't soften water. Greensand can not be used if the pH is less than 6.9 pH.

The best solution for your water is a correctly sized water, and since you don't like the "I can't rinse the soap off" feeling... which women love, you can add 1-3 gpg of hardness back into the water after the softener removes the hardness and iron. With 11 gpg of hardness, you'll spend much more living with it than a softener will cost. Hard water costs clothes, fixtures, water heaters and much more fuel to heat water etc.. Softener salt is much less expensive than PP. A softener will use way less water than any iron filter, whether it is backwashed only or regenerated.

To learn more concerning correct sizing, see here

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[WhyNot]

Well I guess since it comes from Jersey Arsnic may be the least toxic chemical in it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[swiftboot]

i suspect your post was directed more specifically to Mike or myself. I dont know what iron content or ph i have as yet but will certainly make that determination prior to having a filtering system installed. As for the Birm filter, i have tried to understand the workings of it, and it seems to require a air injection into the water. Being in the business, perhaps you could explain in detail how the Birm filter/system works. Does it require a compressed air system to accomplish this? I would also appreciate any direction you can point me to for info regarding the industry moving away from the use of PP. thanks, chuck