Well problem need some help

[tommu56]

If its rock you don't need casing that far down my well is 450ft and the casing is about 20 ft like yours the rock is solid with cracks if the cased all the way down how does the water get in to the center of the pipe?

I second the poly pipe route
Sure align pipe is great too
I used it for 200 ft or so at the bottom of the well then poly pipe to the pit-less adapter

http://www.wellguy.com/_images/wft048461.pdf

PVC Shur-Align® Drop Pipe | Johnson Screens

tom

 

[Mousefield]

Oh okay .... my idea sucked :ashamed:

Any idea is a good one, never know where it might lead to. Sometimes it triggers other ideas. Good try. :thumbsup:

 

[Egon]

It almost sounds as though there was Tectonic activity.

 

[stumpfield]

It almost sounds as though there was Tectonic activity.

When the driller trying to clean out the well, he got mostly gravel in sizes ranging from 1/2" to 1" and some sand. He went all the way down to the bottom and blown everything out with his drilling rig. Apparently, somewhere down there the rock had shifted side way. Now we are unable to install casing or drop the pump down more than 220'. He did tested the well's flow rate with air lift and it's producing about 10gpm.

He said the water level will return to the original 135' but it might take a couple of weeks. The water source is at around 300'. If we can set the pump at 300', then we might be able to use the well. However, he didn't think it can be done. Drilling a new well would be easier and less costly.

My problem started with corroded pipe that re-circles water back into the well and a fat electric bill. Now, I end up with a completely failed well. One thing nice was that the driller said he felt bad for me so there's no charge for all his work. Including the initial service call and all the pump guys time and material used. He lost money on this job. Wow! that's a big relief. I offered to pay him at least the $1000 move-in fee for his drilling rig. He said no. He said he didn't fix my problem so there's no charge. Now I have a lot of respect for him.

Anyway, I'm wondering if a smaller pump might be able to go down deeper. What is the smallest submersible well pump currently available?

 

[tommu56]

look at the grundfus sq flex they are pretty thin but low flow

I think they are 3" od

tom

 

[arrow]

The poster who stated you do not need casing much beyond the mantle line is correct. Your original casing failed at some point above this and let in surface water which provided the debris conduit and eventually filled up your well with mud residue.The old casing needs to be pulled and at least that part of your well needs to be redrilled. What seems to have made this impossible is a mantle shift has squeezed the snot out of the casing making it impossible to pull out. That is probably the reason why the casing has failed in the first place. It may have been imbedded too far into the mantle. The guys around here do not go but 5' or less into the mantle to set the casing. My bedrock starts at 12'. My casing is only 16'. If you cannot access your water with a submersible, then the long run solution I'm afraid is a new well.

 

[dave1949]

Maybe redrilling the existing well won't work because the bit will follow the wandering bore too much to straighten it out enough to drop a pump in. That could be the reason the driller said a new well is the fix. Just like trying to drill a hole beside a hole with a hand drill - it's almost impossible to do.

He sure was nice not to charge you for a weeks work. I would sort of feel obligated to hire him for the new well in that situation.
Dave.

 

[Mousefield]

WOW, that's great there is no charge. :shocked: Some would have given you a large invoice. So if you have to drill that new well this might take a bit of the sting out of it.

 

[CurlyDave]

I think the well driller is honest. The problem is that wells are expensive.

I would check with a couple of others on re-drilling the existing well. While the drill is going to wander with the existing hole, the new hole only really has to be "straight enough" to drop a pump down.

Maybe even ask your existing driller to think about how straight a re-drilled well has to be.

 

[Egon]

. One thing nice was that the driller said he felt bad for me so there's no charge for all his work.

There is a fellow I'd stick with.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

The cheapest solution for the long haul may be a new well??

 

[captaincrab55]

In my area the new specs for wells state that a 'bib' (think that is the term) is now part of a well system.
Essentially the well diggers pour about a yard or so of concrete around the well head to seal and prevent surface water from entering the well.
This concrete is sloped away from well in all directions.
Some soils (like sand) could allow easy seepage of surface waters.

Sounds like one would be forced to get the Pitless Adapter & Electric Stubbed out before the Well Driller could pour the bib..

When I had my well drilled 12 years ago in Baltimore County, Maryland, they required the casing to be Grouted in.. I paid for 90' of Grout. To me, it was worth it to protect my water supply...

 

[rekees4300]

Apparently, somewhere down there the rock had shifted side way.

If a new well is dug, what will stop this from happening again?

 

[arrow]

I think the well driller is honest. The problem is that wells are expensive.

I would check with a couple of others on re-drilling the existing well. While the drill is going to wander with the existing hole, the new hole only really has to be "straight enough" to drop a pump down.

Maybe even ask your existing driller to think about how straight a re-drilled well has to be.

If they cannot get the old casing out, redrilling will not solve his problem. The integrity of the casing failed allowing heaps of sediment dropping down his well. Either that or his rock strata was so soft, it just kept collapsing into the well over the years. That is the only reason I can think of for the driller to recommend casing all the way down. He should get a geology report of the area to be sure however.

 

[dodge man]

I agree with what Arrow says, you can have layers of very hard solid rock, and under it can be softer layers. The guy trying to fix the well said he got a lot of gravel out of the well, this kind of leads me to believe there is a layer of gravel or soft rock at some point, and either surface water or the leaking pipe washed a lot of crap in the well. This is probably why he tried to get a casing further down the well.

Another thing to keep in mind it they can't really steer the drilling bit in an exact straight line, so that is probably why there is a few bends in the well.

For a temporary basis, I'd set up a above ground tank and you can haul water to it. Come winter time, you will either have to put a heater in this tank or come up with a better plan.

 

[Egon]

If a new well is dug, what will stop this from happening again?

Not a thing!

In fact most of the old wells drilled in North America should show signs of becoming oval shaped.

 

[roamerr]

Where I ride ATV's in WV (near Bluefield) many people do not have wells or city water and truck there water in. The do it for years and basically have large storage tanks and a pump. That is a short term solution. Some have the local volunteer fire dept bring the water in.

Sounds like you will need a new well long-term. I've learned that well water is not free -- the set-up and long-term maintenance can easily cost more than the water available in most cities.

 

[rswyan]

Part of my extended family lived up in the mountains of VA .... they did not have a well (.... or an inside toilet for that matter ) ....

They had all their downspouts plumbed to a cistern that was used to provide household water .... including drinking water.

 

[CurlyDave]

They had all their downspouts plumbed to a cistern that was used to provide household water .... including drinking water.

How did they teach all the birds that landed on the roof to "hold it" until they stopped somewhere else?

 

[rswyan]

How did they teach all the birds that landed on the roof to "hold it" until they stopped somewhere else?

Honestly, I really have no idea what they did ..... it was over 40 years ago that I was down at the farm ..... but it sure was good tasting water ( ...... cant say I was quite as enthused about the outhouse tho' .....)

And I really have no idea of how many birds landed on their roof ... and out of those that did, how many did their biz .....

It is my understanding (currently) however that rainwater catchments do often use a bypass that allows the initial rainfall after a dry spell to avoid the catchment and "flush" the roof off before being caught and captured in the cistern .....

BTW - are you on a well out there on those 40 acres ?

If so, how do you teach all the various wildlife in your area to urinate/defecate outside of the watershed that serves your well ?

 

[marimus]

How did they teach all the birds that landed on the roof to "hold it" until they stopped somewhere else?

We have a dual filtration system followed by a UV sterilisation.

We have a summer dominant rainfall, and have to have enough capacity to store enough water to last through Autumn, Winter and Spring.

No problem filling the tanks once Summer rolls around again :thumbsup: