Welding

[Danno1]

........and the fitment. I got a little sloppy.

This is what he's welding!

.

 

[jfox]

Just having fun with you!!!
I had a guy who claimed to be a certified welder work for me a few years ago, I had him make a ladder rack for a truck. His fitment was the worse I'd ever seen. I learned to weld on a farm about 12 years old and never welded until the fit was tight.!!!!!
BTW, this welder was welding 1/8 mild steel with my 220 lincoln set on 60 amps. Looked like bubble gum. He complained the welder was junk. I had a high school kid show him how to weld it. I think he was only skilled with a wire feed welder.

This high school kid started to explain to him (as a joke) that he had successfully welded aluminum to steel.

 

[bugar477]

I have welded for 45 years using all processes. I started off using a acetelyne torch and welded two pieces together with no filler. No one has given the defination of welding( the melting and running together of two metals). If you master welding with a torch every process will come much easier. Take a piece of metal and a torch and heat it untill it starts to melt and run the puddle with a circular motion. Then put a piece of metal on top of that piece and with the same technique weld the two together using a bare steel rod for filler. This is so basic but the heart of every process. Tig for me was easier to learn because I could use a torch. If you weld hot enough you will get penatration and a solid weld. Mig welding that doesn't hold is because the weld puddle only has the wire in the bead and not the base metal. Weld hot enought to melt the base metal into the pretty bead you lay down and you will have a weld that will hold. Every process has a place. I still use them all.
67 years old and counting

Mike

 

[LD1]

I have welded for 45 years using all processes. I started off using a acetelyne torch and welded two pieces together with no filler. No one has given the defination of welding( the melting and running together of two metals). If you master welding with a torch every process will come much easier. Take a piece of metal and a torch and heat it untill it starts to melt and run the puddle with a circular motion. Then put a piece of metal on top of that piece and with the same technique weld the two together using a bare steel rod for filler. This is so basic but the heart of every process. Tig for me was easier to learn because I could use a torch. If you weld hot enough you will get penatration and a solid weld. Mig welding that doesn't hold is because the weld puddle only has the wire in the bead and not the base metal. Weld hot enought to melt the base metal into the pretty bead you lay down and you will have a weld that will hold. Every process has a place. I still use them all.
67 years old and counting

Mike

I agree about learning to gas weld and the rest comes much easier.

I too learned to weld when I was about 12 and all we had was a big square craftsman stick and a set of torches. Thats all dad had until about 6 months ago when we jointly purchased a 225amp mig. I have also tig welded aluiminum, SS, and mild steel.

IMO stick and mig are the easieset of the 4 because you have 1 think going on. I think gas is a little easer than TIG cause you only have two things, the torch and the filler. TIG has 3, torch, filler, and a foot pedal.

Gas welding is very similar in many ways as tig. The only difference is how you heat the puddle, but you have the ability to heat before you add filler, unlike stick and mig, which pile up filler before you can get the base metal to a good puddle. Also know as cold starts, where for the first little bit, the weld isn't as good. Which is why they say if you have to start and stop, to go back and overlap about an inch of your previous weld.

I think of all the forms of welding, I like gas and tig the best. I think it has a lot to do with the amount of skill required. Anybody can mig of stick with minimal training, but not nearly as many can gas/tig. I only have access to a tig where I used to work, so now I use the torches, which I call "Poormans TIG"

 

[bobodu]

I wish I had learned to weld with gas at 12, but all I had was a homemade forge burning coke that fell off railroad cars. So..I started off with forge welding at that age. The only surviving example of my work back then is a hay hook that hangs above my parents fireplace.
Brings back memories every time I see it. Dad says I still have some tongs in his attic and I still have the hammer he gave me for my 14th birthday. It's probably the only thing I wasn't born with that I still have after 48 years.

 

[Baby Grand]

When I went to welding school we started with "fusion" welding (oxyacetelyne). The instructor wouldn't let us touch any of the other gear until we were able to butt weld two 2x4" mild steel 1/4" plates and then hammer-fold the plates 180 degrees in a vise without any tearing in the weld. After that he cut us loose on the stick, then MIG and finally TIG machines. Mike is dead-on about the value of learning with the gas first. You have to be able to control the puddle size, shape, velocity & the heat to have any hope of getting the weld right. These are the basic variables and they apply to all the other welding methods, too.

Years later, I took a blacksmithing class and learned how to Forge Weld:
>Heat 2 pieces of steel to "sparkling" yellow-orange in your coal or gas fired forge.
>Quickly place the first piece on the face of the anvil and apply a coat of borax to the faying surface.
>The second piece is quickly removed from the forge, held in the desired orientation and given a few sharp blows with the hammer.
To make a successful forge weld you have to have the piece perfectly prepared, get the right heat, and make a few, accurate blows in a matter of seconds. It's really difficult, but dead simple and very satisfying when it works.

There's all kinds of welders and all kind of weldors.

-Jim

 

[Rob-D]

I like the easiest best weld I can get in the shortest time. Most times that's MIG for me, someone else might find something better FOR THEM.

I weld for a finished project not to have fun or for bragging rights, not that I mind welding. It's ok but I wouldn't want to ever do it for a living. There are better ways to make a living for me and now that I'm retired I'm glad I chose electronic engineering.

I had a great time designed lots of great circuits, machining patent prototypes and staying out of the rain with a torch in my hand.

Welding, it's ok but it's not rocket science. Do it everyday and have good training and most people can do it just fine.

Welding under water? Are you kidding? About the only thing I want to do under water is take a shower!

What's all the noise about?

 

[BrentD]

Well, spent some more time welding with the HF mig over the weekend. Finally found the setting chart in printed the back of the manual rather than on a sticker. I'm getting a better feel for the machine and my welds look a little better, but controlling that 2-switch 1-dial machine is more of an art than a science. A black art that require special techniques, the right Words, and quite possibly a sacrifice of your own blood.

This weekends project was an alternator tensioning bracket for the Delco 12SI Alternator I retro-fit to my 1993 Geo Tracker.

Noticed something a bit odd on one of the welds. I had a piece of 1/4" plate that I was welding onto a piece of 1/8" plate so that the 1/8" piece made an upside down T with the 1/4" being the "stem". With the Machine on Max - 1, (18.5 Volts) I didn't get very good penetration, but with the machine on Max -2 (19V) the 1/4" piece ended up with a sort of furrow in the metal between the weld bead and the rest of the peice. What might cause that? Is it because the 1/4" piece was vertical and the metal was flowing down as it melted? Would turning up the wire speed help?

 

[Redneck in training]

Must have. Ark welders are the best for gopher wood.

Where do you buy oak electrodes? I can't fine any anywhere.

 

[sizzami]

I love this debate I have some people think a mig weld looks good when it doesnt thats one thing and learning to mig weld is easy learning to mig weld well is not , and there are a few things stick is better for , but it is the myth of stick allways being stronger is just that its the same alloy with a cleaner process, PROPERLY laid mig is as strong as stick on mild steel it just is. joint prep is still the # 1 reason for weld failure

 

[Rob-D]

I love this debate I have some people think a mig weld looks good when it doesnt thats one thing and learning to mig weld is easy learning to mig weld well is not , and there are a few things stick is better for , but it is the myth of stick allways being stronger is just that its the same alloy with a cleaner process, PROPERLY laid mig is as strong as stick on mild steel it just is. joint prep is still the # 1 reason for weld failure

Look at it this way. Who here wants to call Case, Caterpillar and John Deere to tell them, "Hey, just to let you know, I was having this little chat on the net with guys that know lots more then you do and I wanted to be the first to tell you that all your CNC MIG welded industrial equipment has inferior welds."
Just about every major assembly line in the country from cars to tractors and everything in between use MIG.

 

[sizzami]

agreed
also I defy anyone who has dragged 150 feet of stick lead through a vermont mud season day , laid on their back under a skidder getting zapped all the live long day , I defy that person to say " I LOVE STICK" the process is over 100 years old and they still cant develop a decent way to hold a little rod in a clamp.

 

[sizzami]

p.s Ill go one better if you were developing a process would you say "listen I like the fact that the electrode is only twelve inches long so I have to carry a thousand of them everywhere. I like pulling rod butts out of tires, Ilike that it throws unbeilivable sparks so you need a suit of armor to do it, I like that I have to treat the rods like they were that egg I had to watch in sixth grade or they might get "Damp"or "chilly" and oops there goes my money , now if you could add periodic electric shock to that Ill take it ,I think no.

 

[Inkomodius]

Look at it this way. Who here wants to call Case, Caterpillar and John Deere to tell them, "Hey, just to let you know, I was having this little chat on the net with guys that know lots more then you do and I wanted to be the first to tell you that all your CNC MIG welded industrial equipment has inferior welds."
Just about every major assembly line in the country from cars to tractors and everything in between use MIG.

Just to let you know a lot of the CNC machines welding high strength steel isnt welded using the mig process, most ( I hope) use Submersion arc welding. All the trailers that i have built out of T1 or higher strenth steel require sub arc. For joining welds we use dual shielded flux core. Hardwire shielded MIG start cold and can cause weld fault, lead in and lead out tabs can remedy that for some critical welds. For anything critical MIG is always my last choice. However all the 30 ft flare stack trailers we use mig for everything, minus the pressure gas lines which are Sticked to b-pressure specs.

 

[bobodu]

I'd love to see someone drag 150 feet of MIG lead anywhere!!!
NO...you gotta drag the whole freaking machine!! And a tank....and a whole spool of wire even if it's only a short weld. Gets real interesting if the job is more than a few feet off the ground too.
I hate hot glue guns....

 

[Rob-D]

I'd love to see someone drag 150 feet of MIG lead anywhere!!!
NO...you gotta drag the whole freaking machine!! And a tank....and a whole spool of wire even if it's only a short weld. Gets real interesting if the job is more than a few feet off the ground too.
I hate hot glue guns....

Every friend I have who welds professionall uses MIG. People who think you get better penetration with stick don't know how to weld.

99% of my welding is right in my shop and the first thing I reach for is the 220V Miller MIG with dual guns, it's the cats meow. Can I run the welder complete with tanks to a remote location? Of course. Are you telling me you're welding 150 feet away from your shop on a daily basis?

I've welded off the ground and upside down. Like any process you have to learn your medium.

 

[Rob-D]

Just to let you know a lot of the CNC machines welding high strength steel isnt welded using the mig process, most ( I hope) use Submersion arc welding. All the trailers that i have built out of T1 or higher strenth steel require sub arc. For joining welds we use dual shielded flux core. Hardwire shielded MIG start cold and can cause weld fault, lead in and lead out tabs can remedy that for some critical welds. For anything critical MIG is always my last choice. However all the 30 ft flare stack trailers we use mig for everything, minus the pressure gas lines which are Sticked to b-pressure specs.

Think trailer hitches need to be high strength and bullet proof?

"As the manufacturer and distributor of 400 different trailer hitches and accompanying towing accessory components, Valley Industries, LLC of Lodi, California, was looking for a way to increase welding productivity and improve product quality. To do this, the company made the switch from a semi-automatic GMAW (MIG) welding process to robotic GMAW-P (Pulsed MIG) welding systems from The Lincoln Electric Company. The move to automation has resulted in a 60 percent increase in productivity, improved process control, and higher quality parts - adding up to a competitive advantage for Valley Industries among its OEM and aftermarket customers."

Robotic Welding Systems Boost Efficiency at Valley Industries | Lincoln Electric

Let's let the ghost of poor MIG penetration die the death it deserves. Sub arc welding doesn't give you any more strength. It's a different process for a different application. You can weld high strenght , low strenght, low carbon 1018 all just fine with MIG and I have. Go visit a modern robotics welding facility. They use MIG.

 

[bobodu]

I suppose if I did all my welding in a pretty little shop with air conditioning and CFL lighting, I might like an expensive toy like a decent MIG.
But I don't. And I don't have time to clear kinked up wire,clean plugged up tips,fiddle with knobs or make sure that the wind has died down and that the weld is perfectly clean and super well fit. I also don't wanna have to drag a machine around to the other side of the tractor 20 times before the job is done. While the MIG guys are burning up wire to get enough heat for penetration...I'm rolling up my leads to go home.

 

[Rob-D]

I suppose if I did all my welding in a pretty little shop with air conditioning and CFL lighting, I might like an expensive toy like a decent MIG.
But I don't.

To the fox who can't reach the highest grapes they are always the most sour.

And I don't have time to clear kinked up wire,clean plugged up tips,fiddle with knobs or make sure that the wind has died down and that the weld is perfectly clean and super well fit. I also don't wanna have to drag a machine around to the other side of the tractor 20 times before the job is done. While the MIG guys are burning up wire to get enough heat for penetration...I'm rolling up my leads to go home.

I'm not dragging my MIG any further then the guys with stick welders, I haven't cleared one kinked up wire, there is no wind in my well lit shop and I use fluxed wire when I'm out in it. I can fill gaps 'stitching' with a MIG better then any stick welder

... and when I roll up my leads I am home!

 

[bobodu]

To the fox who can't reach the highest grapes they are always the most sour.

Oh...I'm not jealous if that's what you are trying to imply. I have a shop. 6 inch concrete floors,16' ceilings in the work bay. 740 sq ft back in the cold storage area, wood heat,ceiling fans, 6 hp compressor,jacks ,cranes,750 watt stereo and broadband. Plus a seperate storage area for my GoldWing.
It's a lot messier now that it's been broken in...

But real work involves more than making landscape rakes for Cute Urban Tractors. I sure as **** couldn't drag a MIG out to fix a feeder house on a combine or a Cat 3 hitch on a IH 3588.