Welded some hooks on my FEL

[gerard]

Re: Welded or bolt?

Either way can work well. If I were going to weld I'd weld to a plate first and then weld the plate to avoid concentrating so much force at such on such a small surface area (Thats when you see the top of the bucket bent). If I have hooks I don't want to have to worry about applying too much force and bending something so I'd rather overbuild a little. I've attached a picture of what I did before I could weld. Just used some heavy anlge iron with slits cut in to act as chain dogs. Also spreads the force over the whole top of the bucket. Don't think I'll be bending any bucket top here!

 

[GSS]

Re: Welded or bolt?

My old IH 656 had those cut into the bucket in about the same place. I used them a few times and they really worked well. I'll have to see if that is an option on the Cub. Thanks for the memory jog!

 

[Thomas]

Re: Welded or bolt?

I welded my hook to 3/8" plate steel than,the the plate steel to the top of the bucket.
Also welded another piece of 3/8"steel plate under the top of the bucket for more stenght.

Width of the 3/8" steel plate..6 inches,lenght..5 inches.

Depending on the size of your hook and the area to work with..little over kill can save /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif's

 

[reedfish1954]

Your welding looks great and your paint job is fabulous, but ...without hurting your feelings your hooks will pull out becase they are not hardened and I wouldn't take a chance they would straighten. Look at mine and see if you would rather stand under mine or yours. Mine are bolted and backplated top and bottom to 1/4 plate. Those are 10,000 pound tow hooks bought at TSC for 9.99 each.

 

[em14]

I like your hooks .. I have been considering doing some like you did ... you have retained the strength of the hook and the bucket without possiblely performing some heat metallurgy on the bucket and the hook ... I would like to be able to hook a chain loop in the hook for connivance .... again that's well done
Leo

 

[Elkoboy]

Well, I certainly won't claim to be an expert, but the bendable links that he used here should logically be as strong as they are rated for as a chain link in this application, since they are essentially being used as chain link here.

Those links are made to be hammered closed but not welded. So if they are rated for a certain load, it shouldn't matter if they are hammered closed or not, since hammering them closed doesn't increase their load bearing capacity.

I suppose the heat from the welding may have reduced their weight bearing capacity somewhat, but I don't believe they're any more likely to bend open being used in this application than they would if used as a chain link.

Call me cautious, but I prefer to avoid standing under ANYTHING attached to my loader with chains, regardless of how the chains are attached to the loader.

 

[gmason]

Elkoboy, What makes you say that those <font color=blue> links are made to be hammered closed but not welded</font color=blue>. What is going to hold it together under stress then?

I've always put a tac or two on a link just to make sure it won't open back up.

A good weld shouldn't reduce the strength, a bad weld could.

gary

 

[hazmat]

<font color=blue>Well, I certainly won't claim to be an expert, but the bendable links that he used here should logically be as strong as they are rated for as a chain link in this application, since they are essentially being used as chain link here.</font color=blue>

Well, as a mechanical engineer I will claim to be somewhat of an expert here.

The links he used are designed to be used in tension only. Installed as bucket hooks, they now must also carry a bit of moment.

An exaggerated example is trying to break a yardstick by pulling it apart lengthwise vs. bending it.

Will the BX break the links? Probably not. Would I have picked different hooks to start with, yes. Would I cut them off and start over? maybe.

If it fails the vice grip test, definitely. Another test would be to see if you can compress it with a small C-clamp. Another test is to pick up that log again & see if you get any measureable movement. Ie measure the gap between the link & the bucket with & without the load.

It seems like most here are slamming your hooks, but I think it is well intentioned. If they break, you could injure yourself or someone else.

 

[MossRoad]

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/54-205402-towhook.jpg>I've seen those hooks before, on my tractor</A> /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Gfranklin]

Keep in mind that the hooks are only carring part of the load. The bucket is carrying the rest of the load where the chain changes directions at the top of the bucket.

As a mechanical engineer, I agree with Hazmat, your hook is experiencing a moment and that spooks me. Addressing the moment is why the cross section of hooks are not round, they approach the look of an I-beam which is designed for moments. I always design using factors of safety and the anticipation of the worst possible scenario (which occurs more often than should).

There is no way to predict all the situations that these hooks will see. Essentially what you have here is the systems "weak link". Some situations where this may fail is no big deal, another may have significant ramifications. Impossible to predict...



Greg

 

[Elkoboy]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

The links he used are designed to be used in tension only. Installed as bucket hooks, they now must also carry a bit of moment.

An exaggerated example is trying to break a yardstick by pulling it apart lengthwise vs. bending it.

<hr></blockquote>



I'm certainly not going to dispute what you're saying. But the operative words you use are "a bit of moment." Whether or not that amount is significant enough to lose sleep over is the real issue. (Yeh, I know you engineer types probably DO lose sleep over stuff like this /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif )

And I don't see anyone advising him to X-ray his welds for strength either, so everyone draws the line somewhere, don't they?

As long as he doesn't stand under his load and doesn't have anyone else do that either, I don't imagine it will be a problem, especially on this particular model of tractor.

Just for the record, I used some of these links before, and I BROKE a medium sized C-clamp trying to squeeze it closed. I ended up using a sledge to close it, which by the by, is a fun endeavor with two ends of heavy chain hanging off the link.

And as I said earlier, I don't believe in standing under ANY load hanging from a tractor loader, regardless of how it's attached to the loader.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Another test is to pick up that log again & see if you get any measureable movement. Ie measure the gap between the link & the bucket with & without the load.

<hr></blockquote>



That is good advice; I would do this to sleep at night for sure.

Caution and good sense are key here. Tractors can kill, and are especially dangerous when doing something careless or idiotic.

Anytime you make a modification to your tractor you should proceed carefully when using it, until you are confident of it's strength, and make sure you watch for any signs of fatigue in the part over time.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Essentially what you have here is the systems "weak link".

<hr></blockquote>



There's ALWAYS a weak link. How DO you engineers sleep at night?! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Elkoboy, What makes you say that those links are made to be hammered closed but not welded. What is going to hold it together under stress then?

<hr></blockquote>



The instructions on the back of the packages I've bought these links in make no mention of welding.

 

[hazmat]

<font color=blue>As long as he doesn't stand under his load and doesn't have anyone else do that either, I don't imagine it will be a problem, especially on this particular model of tractor.</font color=blue>

Trying not to beat the safety horse to death, but....

Very hard to predict where the chain & shrapnel will go if it does break. Also, I use my chain hooks to pull as well as lift. Adds considerably to the probable areas the chain will fly if it lets go.

You're right the real issue is whether or not it is enough of a moment to lose sleep over. Probably not! Can't really do any analysis without all the measurements, material properties, and knowing every way it will be used. Thus we engineers take the conservative approach.

The bottom line point I am trying to get accross:

dkchandler please be careful & keep an eye on any deflections. Anybody who is going to weld or bolt hooks on their bucket, please use hooks designed for it so that we engineers can sleep at night.

 

[Von]

Hazmat, Here is a photo of the hooks on my bucket.......Sorry to be keeping you at night!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif If I brake one of these hooks I think the loader will be twisted like a pretzel first!

 

[hazmat]

Von,

Man I'm really going to have to count the sheep tonight/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.

Actually your installation doesn't worry me. The hook is very beefy with the aforementioned "I beam" style construction. Also the corner location is the strongest place to put the hook. And based on your previous life as a porshe rebuilder, I'd bet you know which end of the welder to point at it. Buy I still want it X-rayed an dye penetrant tested/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[MikePA]

hazmat, here's some more sleep inducing hooks. Here are pictures of the hooks I had installed. I got both styles from AWDirect. Overkill for my TC25D? Probably. But at $4.50 each for the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.awdirect.com/awdirect/catalog.cfm?dest=itempg&itemid=7299&secid=71&linkon=subsection&linkid=112>3/8" grab hooks</A> (which are placed on the upper lip of the bucket directly above where the FEL arms connect) and $9.50 for the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.awdirect.com/awdirect/catalog.cfm?dest=itempg&itemid=8885&secid=71&linkon=subsection&linkid=112>3/8" slip hook</A>, (attached in the center of the bucket) then I had the upper lip of the std duty bucket boxed, I figure it's cheap peace of mind. Attached is a picture.

 

[WVBill]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Very hard to predict where the chain & shrapnel will go if it does break.

<hr></blockquote>



There was a very lengthy thread here on TBN a year or so ago in which using chains was discussed. One of the topics hotly debated was whether a chain will "snap" like a rubber band when it breaks or whether a link will simply break and both ends of the chain will fall harmlessly in place. I don't recall that anyone ever came up with a personal experience story either way...

 

[MossRoad]

My guess(not the experience you asked for) is somethings gonna fly somewhere.

 

[Hoeman00]

Ive broke some chains and cables before.
D4D,D6C,JD710 all will straighten a chain.
I've broke 5/8" grade 100 chain.
The alloy chains (grade 70,80,100) have a
high work load and when it breaks the
link or end of chain will fly around.
The proof chain (low rating) usually drops
to the ground like it came unhooked.
Steel cable does ALL kind of odd reactions.

 

[tiltbed]

what you have are3/8 repair links.they are a mild grade 4.you peen them together and weld where the ends come together,generally used to repair mild chain.what you are actually useing to lift are the inner bends and the weld on the bucket.not very safe.they manufacture a grade 8 repair link...they are called "hammer locks"they are 2 "c" clips with a gr*8 rod driven through them.we weld one part of the"c" while the other part swivels.they make excelent tie down brackets....just my 2% and class for today...Sid

 

[Hydraman]

Just to add my 2c worth....having worked around machinery all my 56 yrs... remember "Murphy's Law". Strange and unexplainable things happen all the time. Always build beyond the most stressful event that can 'possibly' be done. If you expect to lift 1000 lb. --build for 2000. Just because someday, somewhere, somehow, someone WILL try something they shouldn't!! It's our nature as tractor drivers!!!!
Don