Water Line Question

[Anonymous Poster]

Hello,

I need to run a water line from my well to a new barn and
2 other outdoor faucets. My question is what size pipe should
I use to get good volume and pressure? Should I go with a
2" main then branch off 1" to the faucets which will be
3/4" faucets?

Here is my setup:
Well - 525 ft deep, 3hp pump, currently have a 1" T and cutoff
value installed to branch off from the well line.
Faucets: Need 3 faucets
Distance: Faucet #1 is about 70' from well, inside a 36x48barn
Faucet #2 is about 150' from well,
Faucet #3 is about 150' from well

Diagram: Here is what I had in mind for pipe layout

F3 -|
|
|--------60'----------|F2
|
|----30'-----F1
|
|
|
Well

Thanks for any help
Larry

 

[GlueGuy]

Is there any storage at the well head? What kind of volume do you need at each of the faucets?

A 3HP pump can provide pretty good flow. However, if there is no storage or pressure tank, the pump would cycle a lot. I would put some sort of storage/pressure tank at the well head so that you could cut down on pump cycling. The size of each of the branches should be according to the requirements at the specific fawcet. The size of the main line needs to be according to the total demand. If you're only going to run one at a time, then the main doesn't need to be any bigger than any of the branches. If you plan on drawing from more than one fawcet at a time, then the main needs to increase accordingly.

The flow that you get in a pipe is proportional to the square of the radius (pi * r squared). This does not account for surface friction, but is close enough. So a 2" pipe should actually flow more than 3X what a 1" pipe can flow.

The GlueGuy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Thanks, I guess I forgot some items, like the well also services
our house. There is a 80 gal pressure tank for the well in the garage of the house currently set at about 50 psi(?). I am figure that at most 2 faucets will be used at one time. But would like to plan for 3.

Faucet 1 is inside the horse barn, Faucet 2 is at the wash rack
so would like good pressure and volume there. Faucet 3 is
at the arena and paddock and will be used to water the
arena to wet it down when it gets to dry, need good volume
and pressure here.

The pressure I am shooting for is better than what the average outside faucet gets at a house. Especially for
faucet #2 and #3.

One more question, will schedual 40 PVC work for this?

Larry
(City boy marries country girl, now lives on 10 acres with
3 horses, 3 cats, 1 dog. Learning as fast as I can.)

 

[cowboydoc]

Hayes,
I just put in my barn lines and I just ran 1" everywhere. I have more than enough water pressure for whatever I want. Some of my hydrants are 200' away and no pressure problem and my pump is only 1/5hp.

 

[GlueGuy]

Your pressure tank more likely has a hi/low setting. Low pressure is "usually" ~~40 PSI, and high pressure is "usually" ~~ 60 PSI. Your mileage may vary, depending on your needs. Setting either of the pressures higher decreases the volume of water available between pump cycles, but of course improves the pressure. Conversely, a lower setting on either of the pressures increases the volume of water available between pump cycles, and reduces the pressure.

Schedule 40 can work OK, as it can handle upwards of 200 PSI. Just be sure to protect it from sunlight. This usually means burying the majority of it, and using galvi bibs where it has to be above ground.

I don't know what you mean by "good volume and pressure". That's a pretty subjective term, and you may have to quantify it before we could determine what is "good" for you.

As Cowboydoc points out, some people would consider the pressure/volume from a 1" line "good". Others might consider it marginal. For a lot of people, either 1/2" or 3/4" lines inside a house are "good".

The GlueGuy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I am not sure what I mean by good volume and pressure either. Just that I don't want to get it all put together
and find out that I have a trickle at the other end. I have until this weekend to decide, Friday we are trenching and Sat.
installing. I do know enough not to cover the pipe until I have
verified no leaks.

The soil type in our area is clay based and gets very hard
and compact. After trenching should I put some "cush sand"
in before laying the pvc. I read or was told by someone this needs to be done, is it true?

So when I go to the local dirt supplier, do I actually ask for cush sand? ( I have already learned 1 mans select fill is not the same as another mans select fill. )

Larry

 

[Phred]

Anybody ever try PEX?
http://www.vanguardpipe.com/vanex.html

Its a felxiable pipe that uses crimped fittings rather than solvent weld or sweat.
Supposedly this stuff has some resistance to freezing unlike PVC and copper, which will crack. Its also color coded for hot and cold. The real advantage is that its felxiable and only requires a joint at the two ends.

Cost is a little pricey at $0.56 / foot for 3/4". Compared to ~$1/ft for copper and $0.15 / foot for PVC.

For a run to a barn the PVC might be cheaper but it would be close if you add the cost of the fittings, primer, glue, and labor.

Fred

 

[hayden]

1" everywhere should be fine. Use drinking water grade black plastic pipe in rolls for burried pipe. That way you'll have zero or minimal joints under ground to go bad. It's available in 100' and 300' rolls. Also, check the pressure rating of the pipe. There's something like 100 lbs, 160 lbs, and 200lbs. I would strongly recommend AGAINST the 100 lbs pipe (the only thing Home Depot sells!). It's thin walled and kinks easily. The 160 is more expensive but once you've burried it you really really don't want to have to dig it up again. I've also found that carefully heating the pipe end with a torch or blow dryer makes getting the fittings on much easier.

 

[bgott]

I've used it to replace sections of polybutylene in mobile homes. I've done some reading up on it and the jury is still out. After the polybutylene fiasco I really don't trust a lot of "new and improved" materials until they've had a few, like twenty, years to prove themselves. I also have a lot of LP siding to replace. The PEX is not UV stabilized, it's just not supposed to be chlorine sensitive like the PB was. I use screw on fittings rather than crimp fittings, I feel safer tying into old existing PB with the o-ring fittings I use. I also don't feel like buying a crimper. If I replace the whole run I go with the good old tried and true cut and glue PVC, I know and can live with it's limitations.

 

[MarkV]

Larry,

As you say, one man’s fill is not the same as another man’s fill. Here in Georgia we don’t add sand to the trench, but we make sure that we are filling with rock free fill. Of course we don’t have the deep freeze thaw cycles that happen up North. Some of the old timers will fill part way and then lay PT lumber in the trench before filling the rest of the trench. The idea being that the load of concrete trucks or other heavy objects would be distributed more evenly. May be best to check for local practice with a plumber.

Sounds like a big weekend coming up, good luck.

MarkV

 

[dthomas]

Hayes,

Class 160 pvc is rated at 160 psi and the inside diameter of class 160, 3/4 pipe is not much different than the inside diameter of one inch sch 40. Go to a hardware store and take a look. Be sure to buy <font color=red> cleaner </font color=red>and glue. I prefer purple cleaner and Rain-R-Shine (blue) glue. Be sure to clean both the male and female ends then apply glue to the male then the female. Apply only a light coat inside the female because all the excess will be deposited inside the pipe. When you stick it together...twist the pipe inside the bell 1/4 turn to even out the glue. I have used this combination to glue a valve on under pressure (with the valve open). Operators swear that they have glued up to a three inch valve on under pressure. If I knew the elevation difference and how much you would like to flow and what residual pressure you would like have, I could run the hydraulics...but, given the limiting factor of your pressure tank, I would just go with class 160 pvc, 3/4 pipe. This can even be laid with a chisel plow if you don't have rocks or roots, etc. Glue your straight runs of pipe together. Let it set 24 hours. Make two or three passes (in the same trench) with the plow then tie the pipe behind the plow point and pull it from point a to point b. Of course you have to dig out the ends to make your tie ins. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Donald

 

[Calpyro]

I hope I don't offend anybody by jumping in to the conversation, but here I go...
I finished a little plumbing project this summer. I ran 2" PVC from my 5 HP well all over my yard, a total of 1700' in all.
I am really pleased with the water flow and would suggest that you go with 2" the whole way. By doing so you leave the possibility of extending each line in the future and you maximize the flows possible to each spigot. I would simply use a 1" steel pipe riser to each spigot and top it off with the biggest 1" faucet available.
As a career fireman, I have never said that I have "too much water"
Cameron

 

[JJT]

I'm with Hayden on this one. The 500+' well only has 1" pipe - why go any larger? Around here, (milk country), you can get the 160psi pipe in 660 foot rolls.

 

[cowboydoc]

Boy I have to agree there. I just don't see how you're going to gain anything going from 1" down to 2" and back down to 1" again for your faucets or hydrants. I am not aware of any faucets or hydrants that are 2", at least for home or farm use. I mean I know they are out there but not for most of our uses. I certainly don't see any harm in doing it just don't see the advantage.

 

[Calpyro]

I suppose the main advantage of using larger pipe is that you can reduce the friction loss in the piping from the well to the furthest spigot to virtually nothing by using large pipe. In principal, if the well is capable of producing 25 gallons per minute, this flow would be available at the most distant spigot. Using smaller pipe creates more friction loss, which results in less water where you need it. While your well may have 1" pipe in the casing, you can certainly use larger pipe from that point on to reduce the friction loss and obtain maximum flows.
I will use my well as and example. My 5HP pump has 1-1/2" pipe in the casing and produces 55 gpm at the well head. 600' feet away, through 2" pipe, I still get 48 gpm. I spent a ton of money on my well and I want to be able to get all of the water flow available, even if I never need it. In comparison, PVC pipe is much cheaper than the well and the pump.
Speaking like a fireman for a minute. If you use big pipe, you can get outfit your new barn with a valve and fire department threads. You then could attach a length of small fire hose and nozzle for general cleanup and fire control in the event of a fire.
Good luck,
Cameron