Warranty on work

[Bje56]

Hey everyone. My first post. I’ve been one of those selfish ones who sits back and takes but never puts anything in. Not who I am. More of a lack of knowledge to share. Hopefully one day something I’m a subject matter expert in will come up. Any way... bought a used 2005 GC 2300 with 89hrs on it approx 8 months ago. Great machine. The original place of purchase had shut down and then reopened between when it was bought and when I got it. I’m in Massachusetts. Turns out last October (2017)!the tractor went in for service as well as front axel seals, loose steering wheel (the previous owner apparently used it as a handle to pull himself up onto the platform, and fill the rear tires with fluid (not sure which fluid - I’ll double check printout). I found this out when I visited this dealership relieved I didn’t have to drive over an hour to get to a MF dealership. I spoke with gentleman there who ended up searching the previous owners phone number I still had and found the invoice of the work they did in October 2017. He printed a copy for my records. My question centers around the front axel seals. I have put 160hrs on it now. (251hrs total - wife had to do that math for me). I’ve switched everything over to Amsoil synthetics. I used gear oil (severe gear 75-90) for the front axel. (Daughter won’t mind skipping college so tractor can have the best) Over the 160hrs I noticed a small build up of oil/dirt by the front axel seals. I use the tractor, but don’t abuse it. I was hoping the build up was residual from before the tractor went into the shop. I cleaned it pretty well when I changed the fluids. I took off the platform and coated it with truck bed liner and added a usb charging port and some lights. (All ideas and knowledge from you people and this community so thank you very much). It’s been about 12 hours since and I now have more oil/dirt that again looks to be coming from the seals. I was hoping that switching from dealer permantran iii (per invoice) to the Amsoil severe gear any small leaking would slow or magically disappear. If the seals do need to be replaced am I wrong to point out to the dealer that they did the work and there’s only been a 160hrs Of use/1 year since this was fixed? Am I out of line to hope that they’ll help me out cost wise ok any further repairs? Assuming this is the same issue, which again from what knowledge I’ve gained here it seems like it is. I went above the budget to purchase this tractor hoping to avoid any major repairs for at least a few years. Any insight would be much appreciated. Thank you again for all the previous help again. Also to any fellow Veterans, happy Veterans Day.

 

[Wagtail]

G'day Mate... I'm sorry but I couldn't finish reading the 'wall of text' that was your post. Could you break it up into paragraphs? Ta.

We had a very moving Remembrance Day here in St Helens. "Lest we forget."

 

[irvingj]

I thoroughly de-greased my 2310 a while back, and now can see some dirt/oil buildup around the right front axle. Somewhat disappointing, but it's not a lot... and I'm not worried about it...yet. Mine's a 2007, now with about 800 hrs on it. Attached pic is after about 5 hours of lawn mowing & leaf removal, pretty dusty, so the slight leak shows up nicely. Left side is still clean & dry. I take it your leak is worse? (maybe a pic?)

Observations:
1) Pretty unusual to have to change axle seals at only 89 hours!
2) I doubt you'll get any warranty out of work that was performed so long ago... but it may not hurt to ask, I guess.
3) ...and to have to re-build the steering wheel, again with only 89 hours... sounds like it may have been used pretty hard.. but these things are pretty tough. Great little tractors.

 

[DLTTrekkers]

I thoroughly de-greased my 2310 a while back, and now can see some dirt/oil buildup around the right front axle. Somewhat disappointing, but it's not a lot... and I'm not worried about it...yet. Mine's a 2007, now with about 800 hrs on it. Attached pic is after about 5 hours of lawn mowing & leaf removal, pretty dusty, so the slight leak shows up nicely. Left side is still clean & dry. I take it your leak is worse? (maybe a pic?)

Observations:
1) Pretty unusual to have to change axle seals at only 89 hours!
2) I doubt you'll get any warranty out of work that was performed so long ago... but it may not hurt to ask, I guess.
3) ...and to have to re-build the steering wheel, again with only 89 hours... sounds like it may have been used pretty hard.. but these things are pretty tough. Great little tractors.

No streem of oil....so no leak !

 

[ray66v]

The gear oil is about the same viscosity as the Permatran. So, unfortunately it will not fix leaks.

There should be a breather on these to allow for expansion. It's been so long since I messed with mine, I can't remember if the fill caps have a breather valve in them. I don't think they did.

If that valve is not working, or there is too much fluid, they could be the issue.

The dealer will no doubt, feel real bad, and "take care of you", on a redo, if you complain. But, I doubt they will do it over, no charge.

Front axle leakage is not unheard of, but not a big problem with these.

 

[LouNY]

If the "leak" is a minor seep I'd just check the level and keep it topped off.

 

[Bje56]

Thanks for the replies. Apologize for the in-depth, never ending post. Appreciate those who read it and replied. Appreciate those who read some of it and complained just as much! Seems like the don’t worry but watch method is the way to go. I might stop by with some pics and see how receptive the dealer is. I might be looking for a slightly larger with back hoe tractor down the line and there’s a kubota dealership next door and cub cadets across the street.

 

[flyerdan]

That type of seal is problematic at best for seepage issues, and synthetic oil in general has a habit of getting through gaskets where dino oil won't.
It wouldn't hurt to talk to the dealer about it, they might take you out to the shop and point out several examples that show it's typical.

 

[ray66v]

synthetic oil in general has a habit of getting through gaskets where dino oil won't.

That is one of the common synthetic oil myths.

From the link below:

"The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is slipperier, lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not. Again, completely untrue. "

What Makes Synthetic Oil Better? | United States

 

[JWR]

The gear oil is about the same viscosity as the Permatran. So, unfortunately it will not fix leaks.

There should be a breather on these to allow for expansion. It's been so long since I messed with mine, I can't remember if the fill caps have a breather valve in them. I don't think they did.

If that valve is not working, or there is too much fluid, they could be the issue.

Disagree. Permatran is standard MF transmission oil which is much lower viscosity than 75-90WT gear oil but I do not see that as an issue here. Your conclusion it (gear oil) will "not fix leaks" is certainly true. The main question for BJE56 is whether there is enough of a leak to matter and whether it is really a "leak" in the first place or just normal negligible seepage. Good point about a vent or potential lack thereof -- he should be able to just unscrew the filler and see if it seems to be under pressure. I suggest some photos from BJE56 if we are to be of any help to him. There may or may not be a problem.

I am a little skeptical of this whole situation -- someone replaces front axle seals at 89 hours ? Based on what? What for ? ... and the steering wheel is "loose?" A user could pull his weight up on to the tractor a few thousand times and never cause a "loose steering wheel." There is just too much fuzzy with this machine's history and symptoms. And yes, I read every word of the long text 3 times.

 

[Bje56]

Here is one of the work orders for everything but the front axel. Not sure if there is an insinuation or not of me not being truthful. Hope not. I apologized for the long text because it was long and that was sincere. As was my appreciation for those who offered perspective/advice and those who pointed out the truth about the length. I’ve never posted anything before. Anyway here is invoice. Will get pics of seals tomorrow or later tonight. Thanks again.

 

[Bje56]

Also there is no vent and I did here some pressure being relieved when I unscrewed the fill cap for the front axle. I did have it in and out of 4x4 and worked the tractor yesterday. I checked it this morning .

 

[JWR]

BJE56 said: Not sure if there is an insinuation or not of me not being truthful.

Oh my goodness no! Certainly not by me. What I tried to express was that this is an odd situation with some aspects of it that don't make sense ( like why the previous owners would have the axle seals replaced at 89 hours and what the loose steering wheel is all about.) My first guess being that you were being partially misled about the history of the machine when you bought it. It just seems there must be more to this than you know about (probably.) Overlaying all that is that the dealer has been in and out of business during the period of interest.

The plot thickens quite a bit reading that work order. You don't suppose this tractor was under water for a while ? In an accident while being transported or ?? At very best the previous owner must have treated the machine pretty strangely.

These things are often like a good mystery story. Look forward to your photos.

 

[ray66v]

Disagree. Permatran is standard MF transmission oil which is much lower viscosity than 75-90WT gear oil

No, it's not.

You are making the common mistake of thinking the gear oil is heavier, because it's 75-90W.

But, gear oil is NOT measured on the same scale as motor oil, which is where the transmission oil is measured.

Both 75-90W, gear oil, and most hydraulic transmission oil, (which runs around 30W), are basically the same viscosity.

Viscosity varies widely by brand. A 30W from one company can be thicker or thinner than another, but give or take a small margin, both are about the same.

You will see this for yourself, if you do a simple side by side pour test.

Kubota SUDT is an exception, which if I remember correctly is closer to 20W.

 

[ray66v]

Also there is no vent and I did here some pressure being relieved when I unscrewed the fill cap for the front axle. I did have it in and out of 4x4 and worked the tractor yesterday. I checked it this morning .

That could be the problem.

Perhaps someone will know. But, I would think there is supposed to be a way for the pressure to vent.

 

[JWR]

No, it's not.

You are making the common mistake of thinking the gear oil is heavier, because it's 75-90W.

But, gear oil is NOT measured on the same scale as motor oil, which is where the transmission oil is measured.

Both 75-90W, gear oil, and most hydraulic transmission oil, (which runs around 30W), are basically the same viscosity.

Viscosity varies widely by brand. A 30W from one company can be thicker or thinner than another, but give or take a small margin, both are about the same.

You will see this for yourself, if you do a simple side by side pour test.

Kubota SUDT is an exception, which if I remember correctly is closer to 20W.

View attachment 578623

Good info. I have never seen that chart before. The problem with the chart (or with my memory, one of the two) is that I was basing my comment more on the side-by-side pour test (really in my memory, not actually side by side) and I remember the transmission oil being much thinner than the bottles of "gear oil." Now I gotta go try that.

 

[ray66v]

Good info. I have never seen that chart before. The problem with the chart (or with my memory, one of the two) is that I was basing my comment more on the side-by-side pour test (really in my memory, not actually side by side) and I remember the transmission oil being much thinner than the bottles of "gear oil." Now I gotta go try that.

They are basically the same product, with different additives. And, are interchangeable in many applications.

80w gear oil, and hydraulic transmission oil, are both light weight gear oil.

The transmission oil has more additives. (i.e. wet brakes, and anti-foam).

People have trouble accepting the fact that the 80-90W gear oil is not thick. Because, the 80-90W classification convinces them it is.

You should be able to see it by eye, when you pour them. But, even better, you can do a timed Zahn cup type test, (cup with a hole in it), or a side by side cup, or bottles, with a hole in it, test.

Again, viscosity often varies widely in products of the same weight. But, you will not see a difference that is significant between most of them.

 

[Kent C]

On automobile axle seals that would not be considered a leak or covered by warranty unless a drip is occurring. A "wet" or lubricated seal does have some gear/oil/trans fluid pass through the contact area to keep the seal from wearing. Also on automotive axle seals if the differential isn't venting properly or at all the amount of fluid through the seal will increase substantially. Usually the seal itself isn't the cause of a leak, it an effect of another cause. Excessive bearing play, incorrect fluid, and lack of venting are the most common causes of seal leaks.

 

[ray66v]

Bje56:

Since yours is an early model GC, make sure they installed a shield on the transmission, to protect the filter. The early GC's came without it.

If the front of your transmission doesn't look like the one in the picture below, I strongly suggest you order the shield, and install it. MF part #79026385.

The filter is susceptible to being broken off without it.

 

[Bje56]

Hey Ray66v,
I came across a post a few months ago about this. The local dealer is quoting me $129.95. That sound right? Appreciate the heads up though as it currently does not.