Using a tractor as a bulldozer

[YuriM]

I would probably try first with what I had to work with. To start with you may want to keep yourself positioned so that if necessary you can use your bucket to help push your way out if things get soft. Is there not a way to get material from somewhere besides in the creek to place in the stream to stop it? You might even be able to get a load of rock brought in and use the tractor to transport it to where it is needed. You could begin putting it into the area needed and work your way across to the other side. This would also help compact the new material. As others have warned, things happen quick around sand/water. I have been stuck only twice with my tractor and both times were in a stream bed trying to slope the sides. Good luck.

Do you mean I wouldn't want to use the gravel from the stream because it would increase the chances of getting stuck?

 

[20 20]

I'd go with a mini excavator or dozer, or better yet both, save your tractor.

 

[gerard]

Probably 4 hours with a full size excavator and you're done. Widen and deepen and use the spoils to raise the bank size. Should cost you less than $1000 to have it done. Sometimes it's NOT worth doing something yourself if you don't have the right tools. Excavator is best tool for this work, dozer would also make short work of widening the bed but water will complicate using the dozer.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I have to say go with the tractor, if you feel the ground will support the weight. Take a 3/4" pipe and go out where you plant to work. Put some of your weight behind it and see how far it sinks. If it goes far, you have to rethink your plan.

Getting stuck is no fun, but spending coin when you own equipment makes me more upset.

Worse case is you get stuck and then have to rent a dozer or something like that. But there are lots of ways to get unstuck...

Besides, its christmas, what do you want to do, spend all your time with your family?

 

[sellercreek]

There is no problem with using the spoils from the stream if you can put them where you want them. That is the main issue in this discussion. If your tractor can pick up material from the stream bed and move it to where you need them, problem solved. If not, another plan will need to be put in place.

 

[powerstroke444e]

When it dries up I wouldn't see why the tractor wouldn't work. Yes if I had my choice I would use a nice size excavator but you already have the money in a tractor why not use it. I have M5400 and had in creek lots of time bringing up sand for back fill and if your not carefull it will get stuck but just don't push your luck.
I have a 8000lb winch that I can tie to a tree that I use all the time when its wet out or working on slopes. Have fun and let it dry a extra couple weeks after you think its dry.

 

[Scotty370]

The way I look at it, that's a pretty serious Tractor, and I'd give it a 'go'. But that's me! Just one word about permits. Even in unprotected streams they want you to take reasonable measures! If the stream dries up, or at least reduces flow, downstream straw bales might be an idea. Fill out your profile so we know where you are! Also, up here, April=Trout season! Your stream may not be protected, but it emptys into something! Of course, April also= Spring runoff!!! Bales may not be practical. Just random thoughts! ~Scotty

 

[JoeinTX]

Yeah, Yuri, you've got a decent tractor and that creek bed doesn't look that challenging to me. I was expecting something much steeper, narrow, and more clay/mud.

I would at least give the tractor a shot........my work just fine and save you rental/hiring money. If it doesn't, well, you'll know what to do.

 

[JohninCT]

I can't really judge the width of your stream, but it looks like a mini excavator could stay on the bank and reach the middle. The local small rental place near me rents a 3.5 ton mini excavator with backfill blade for $ 490 per weekend or $1015 per week. If it were me, I'd stay out of the water and dig as much out the stream as you wanted and pile it up on the bank. Then you could use the excavator blade and/or your tractor to spread it out where you want it. Another thing is that most of these excavators can be rented with thumbs which could be useful for strategic placement of large rocks were you might need them.

 

[newbury]

<snip> By the way, I'm not doing this until at least April. The stream currently has about 4" of ice on it

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edited to add:
I will not be uprooting any trees.

Looks like you are in New England.
"until at least April" means high water, if you can wait till real dry season (in my section of Vermont that's August or September) I'd strongly recommend you try it as is and balance off any need for a backhoe at times.
You can easily do it with a mini-ex and depending on the economy you might be able to get a used mini-ex for the cost of a backhoe, But spending $500 to $1,000 on a project just to rent a piece of equipment for a weekend versus having the equipment for use ANYTIME you want it was a big tradeoff for me.
Now I've got a BH and can go pick up sticks off the lawn, like in my avatar.

 

[zkurtb]

If this were my project, I'd go with the tractor. Since you have it, why not, save the rental $ unless you need it. If it doesn't pan out go rent what you need, but if it does you saved those $$. That's why I got the tool - to do as much as I can with it, and save the $ from renting. That said, I'd obviously rent when necessary, but would do my darndest to use what I have first - safely, of course.

I don't think you'll hurt the Kubota it if you don't do anything extreme, it's a pretty strong machine, those are well built. Worst case is you'd get stuck, and as posted there are many ways to get unstuck, especially since there are trees, with comealong and winch for starters. And the bucket technique described by others is really effective - I figured this one out from desperation when plowing snow and getting stuck in the drain ditches on the side of the road. Putting chains on would also help with traction and reduce the chance of getting stuck.

My biggest concern would be the softness of the creek bed. Perhaps you can test it - drive in slowly with bucket unloaded, and if ok then loaded, to the point it either works or you get a sense it starts to sink. Then you'll know.

 

[texasjohn]

If it were me, I'd understand how deep things are first.
Then, I'd have no problem using tractor.
I'd get a toothbar for FEL... aids with digging material and strengthens the lip.
Be sure and use rear weight for balance, suggest a box blade... also useful for moving material.

The gravel looks to me like it is very stable.

All above assumes 4WD tractor... else, gotta be extremely careful, still, might be doable.

Yep, try practicing using the FEL to back your self out of a tight spot... on dry land before you get into a real one in the creek bed. Extremely effective method, have used it often.

I am heartened by the general flatness of the terrain, nevertheless, go slow, carry your load low, be prepared to drop it if your tires find a hole to drop into and things get really tippy.

 

[MarkV]

I assume the water gets very low at some point in the year. If that is true I would use my tractor. Do keep in mind that the front axle has a vent on the top and if you are in water above the axle housing it would be a good idea to change fluids after.

MarkV

 

[Glen Watkins]

Wait for low water and dry time of the year push the water out of the field back into the creek and build up the low spot with with clay if you have any around there or use subsoil and rock take your time and use your tractor!

 

[taborekle]

I'm with the crew that says give it a try. Put a blade on it and loosen the materials up with the blade, and then scoop and transport with the FEL. I wouldn't put the tractor into the water mind you, but on a firm creek bank, I see no problems.

 

[mike69440]

Thanks all for the tips! So I'm split between the people telling me to rent a dozer/backhoe, and people telling me try using the tractor. I'm attaching pictures that show where I'm having the problem, though these were taken at high water. Normal flow is nowhere near this. Hopefully that makes it easier to see the scale of the project.

Getting the tractor stuck is what worries me most of all -- I've done that before and it was no fun. The creek bed is almost fully gravel. There's just a little sand, and of course where it's overflowing is silt as gravel hasn't been able to build up yet. I don't really know how deep the gravel is.

I did do my homework about required permits. This is an unprotected stream as far as the state is concerned. The only way I would need a permit is if I was working on more than 200 feet of it. At most, I'm going to be working on 120-150 feet. The county's water and environmental is also pretty much my next door neighbor (lives a mile down the road) and I've hashed it out with him. So yes, it is a valid concern, but I have taken care of it already.

So the question remains: Use the tractor until it gets stuck and then bring in the dozer to pull it out? Or do away with the stress and aggravation of that in the first place and rent the dozer?

Nice stream and country form the pics.

No way would I try anyting with a tractor in that stream, for that matter a dozer is not a good idea.

If you have a litte work in the bank, you can give it a try, but I have an L39 and would not try swiming with a TLB, and a TLB can pick itself up and move sideways.

This IS excavator work, pure and simple.

 

[CCWKen]

Price a set of tires for your tractor vs. equipment rental. You'll probably cut tires in that rock.

 

[Knight]

Nice stream and country form the pics.

No way would I try anyting with a tractor in that stream, for that matter a dozer is not a good idea.

If you have a litte work in the bank, you can give it a try, but I have an L39 and would not try swiming with a TLB, and a TLB can pick itself up and move sideways.

This IS excavator work, pure and simple.

This answer nails it. Is your time worth any money. I could rent an excavator for a day here for $300 and most likely do the job in four hours.
vs using my tractor and spend three hours trying to get it out of the mud.
In spring time around the bank the ground will be very soft and once you sink the loader in for a load, now what? You think you can just back out with all that wet dirt in the bucket. A full wet load of dirt will push your front tires into the mud, now you have to dump it and back out empty. Your at the same spot, just got the tractor dirty.
Try one scoop with your tractor, then run, do not walk to the rental store and get the excavator.

 

[scoutcub]

I had to think about this one long and hard. I'm all for trying to save money, and using what you got...but...I wouldn't do it. And, I own a compact, a dozer, and an excavator...and have a stream.....
You mentioned sand, silt, gravel, and at least a foot of water. In my mind, if you have any weight in the bucket you are trying to move, you are going to spin tires.....and eventually get stuck. Probably stuck pretty good with that combination.
Then you have to go rent the equipment, and have someone else help you get unstuck. could easily be more than 3 hours wasted.
If you get a dozer in there and start running gravel thru the tracks, that could be a big problem. Or worse, getting the dozer stuck.

My vote would be the excavator. And I would get the biggest one I could, a mini could get in trouble as well. Might cost more per hour, but it will take less time with the bigger machine, and you run less risk of getting into trouble. Good luck, and let us know what you decided with some pics!

 

[David Devuono]

I use my mini kubota as a dozer all the time, abet a very small one. When you start to scoop up some dirt, tilt your bucket back a few degrees and it will transfer a load to your front tires. As you feel the tractor start to bog tilt the bucket more until your no longer digging or the bucket is full. Avoid spinning your tires. I would be digging from the gravel bar and only cross the stream with an already full bucket. I am assuming you have to cross the stream as the low side appears as the outside corner. If the water is still high then you may have to find another source of dirt to make a dike, staying out of the water. When crossing the stream have two routes where you are crossing back and forth with the current at the shallowed part. I would not do any digging-dredging in the water. If you do decide to dredge the creek, rent an excavator, but they might ask what you plan to use it for. If you tell the truth, its likey they will not rent it to you.