Update on loader repair program from Kioti Jan 30

[Oleozz]

Well Hodak, will you be buying a Kioti cab tractor?
I agree about Bob's comments, I have yet to get upset by what he writes. Nothing wrong with hearing different opinions and ways to fix the problem.

 

[PaPaGus]

Question, are these loaders made in Korea or did they outsource and manufactured in the USA?

 

[HODAK]

, what good is having two loaders for one tractor? I hope you guys get some good news soon on your loader issues.

You're right. No need for two loaders. Anybody want a used KL130 with cosmetic cracks? Anyone??? Ok, that's just being a smart a**. Sorry.........

I'll try and hang in there a little longer. It is fun to shop again though.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I agree with Bob and others who have identified the critical potential safety issue: cracking that could suddenly cause the torque tube to separate under load. . .
The cracks on my loader were first noticed a year ago . . . after another 40-50 hours of fairly loader intensive brush clearing, the cracks had clearly extended and are now visible without removing the inspection plate. I don't see any reason that with continued normal use and flexing of the torque tube why these cracks would not continue to spread.

Ed, I'm not a metalugist, but I have a little experience in metal shearing and I doubt that simply driving with a loader that has a cracked torque tube will lead to a roll.

But imagine driving into a settled pile of topsoil and sod, or pile of clay. That is a fairly common task for many. Now what if the cracks tore around the tube after several trips of moving bucket loads of this settled soil pile?

First you'd have to presume you already have a cracked loader. Like yours. Second, you'd have to presume the cracks have continued to grow. Also like yours. Third, you'd have to presume that they will continue to grow and that stress caused by using the loader, and driving into the pile will increase the cracking.

Now that the situation is set up, and is realistic, presume you are driving your tractor into that pile and your torque tube breaks upon initial contact with the pile. The likely scenario is that the side of the loader that meets the most resistance will compress and twist while the other side of the loader will not and that will likely cause the tractor to twist and roll.

Another scenario is with the same damaged loader, carrying objects that are both heavy and subject to shifting in the bucket. Under that circumstance a break could cause a similar twisting and potential roll.

 

[Dodgeram]

I presume someone will respond to this. I imagine I won't.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Question, are these loaders made in Korea or did they outsource and manufactured in the USA?

To my knowledge the KL120 & KL130 are made in S. Korea & are outsourced by Daedong/Kioti to a 'original equipment manufacturer' in S. Korea.

Moss road writes:

It is faily obvious that everyone agrees on the three following items:

1. Yes, there are cracks.
2. Yes, they should be repaired.
3. Yes, it is taking the company too long to get them repaired.

There isn't much left to talk about other than updates to the status of the repair process...

I agree. Let's keep it on topic. If a poster wants to talk about all the numerous possibilties of what could or may or be remotely possible concerning unbalanced loads etc....start a new thread in the safety forum.

Don

 

[Highbeam]

Hello folks, I am patiently waiting in agony along with everyone. Failure of a strucural member by cracks in a lifting device are a safety issue. If there was a crack in the fender, not a safety issue. The example of the crane is perfect, a cracked structural segment of a crane shuts the machine down. If that torque tube wasn't an essential structural element then it wouldn't be there.

I have a question that is related to this. You have two loader rams holding the bucket up. The rams are linked hydraulicaly without check valves. So if the one ram suddenly takes all the load and is overwhelmed by say.. a broken torque tube, would the other ram actually extend as the overloaded ram is compressed? Wouldn't that act to put the tractor into a roll?

Thanks for keeping this issue alive. I hope for the best here. The tractor has been great for me after nearly 400 hours, the loader has been the only failure.

 

[Steverino]

You have two loader rams holding the bucket up. The rams are linked hydraulicaly without check valves. So if the one ram suddenly takes all the load and is overwhelmed by say.. a broken torque tube, would the other ram actually extend as the overloaded ram is compressed? Wouldn't that act to put the tractor into a roll?

This sounds plausible to me.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

My opinion: I can't see how the cross tube affects safety unless coupled with another failure. Isn't this cross member there to provide lateral rigidity . . . If you cut the cross member completely out, wouldn't the bucket still operate? It might twist . . . But, unless a cylinder fails, I don't see where a failure of the cross member by itself would cause harm

As I attempted to express earlier, the cylinders work in series but I probably did not express myself clearly because Highbeam more clearly states what I attempted to write, but he wrote it in question format.

Failure of a strucural member by cracks in a lifting device are a safety issue. . . If that torque tube wasn't an essential structural element then it wouldn't be there.
. . .You have two loader rams holding the bucket up. The rams are linked hydraulicaly without check valves. So if the one ram suddenly takes all the load and is overwhelmed by say.. a broken torque tube, would the other ram actually extend as the overloaded ram is compressed?

Wouldn't that act to put the tractor into a roll?

That is my point. Please realize this would likely only occur if the loader was at or near capacity.

Also understand, as is clear that Highbeam does, that the cylinder does not hold the load, but it is the fluid in the cylinder that holds the load. So if a cylinder is overloaded, as would occur with an uneven load or a load shift in the bucket, then the overloaded cylinder would compress, the natural action is its fluid would move to the other cylinder and cause it to extend. This is all in absence of "check valves" or more correctly in the absence of double piloted check valves, and those simply do not exist in loaders because the torque tube is there to prevent this problem. If the torque tube cracks through and the loader is at/near capacity, then there is a big potential problem at hand.

 

[williekioti]

Hey by the way---Kioti is a great tractor.

There you go again with the free flowing propaganda..... I feel more balance is due here in this forum. The Kioti is a poor tractor of marginal build quality, with meager sales and woeful public relations campaign.

 

[MossRoad]

How do the lift cyliders work in series???

 

[Bob_Skurka]

How do the lift cyliders work in series???

Oops my bad. I confuse the terms. Correct term is parallel. Fluid goes to each cylinder input and back. The lift capacity is roughly the combined capacity of the two cylinders when they are joined together.

 

[rback33]

Oops my bad.

QUICK, SOMEONE MARK THE CALENDAR!!!.....

Sorry Bob.. couldn't help it.... you've been kicked around so much in here I didn't figure you'd notice a little poke in the ribs from me...

 

[Bob_Skurka]

QUICK, SOMEONE MARK THE CALENDAR!!!.....

Sorry Bob.. couldn't help it.... you've been kicked around so much in here I didn't figure you'd notice a little poke in the ribs from me...

Heck I've been wrong before and admitted it. I don't mind. I do try to learn from my mistakes. But I do make them from time to time, and sometime I get confused and just screw up.

Take a look here, make sure I didn't screw this up too much: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/95679-fel-capacity.html
I went with published numbers but had to extrapolate others so it is subject to correction.

 

[Donnyj]

Actually the Kioti numbers are incorrect. The DK45S uses the KL451 loader, not the 1470 loader. I think you will find the KL451 loader capacities much higher than the 1470 loader.http://www.kioti.com/attachment_kl451.html

 

[MossRoad]

Oops my bad. I confuse the terms. Correct term is parallel. Fluid goes to each cylinder input and back. The lift capacity is roughly the combined capacity of the two cylinders when they are joined together.

Thanks for the clarification... I was scratching off what little hair I have left trying to figure out how that would work.

 

[rback33]

Actually the Kioti numbers are incorrect. The DK45S uses the KL451 loader, not the 1470 loader. I think you will find the KL451 loader capacities much higher than the 1470 loader.http://www.kioti.com/attachment_kl451.html

Actually.... You can use three loaders... the 1470S, the 1590S, and the 451 you mentioned. The 451 is likely to have the best specs, the 1470 the worst.....

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Actually.... You can use three loaders... the 1470S, the 1590S, and the 451 you mentioned. The 451 is likely to have the best specs, the 1470 the worst.....

This reminds me of the Kubota L3130 tractor, it has multiple loaders as well. The 723 is the most capable, but my local dealer says the 513 is the better seller on the L3130 because it costs less. So of the various loaders available for the DK45s I'd have to wonder which one has the most sales? The least expensive? The most capable?

 

[Donnyj]

This reminds me of the Kubota L3130 tractor, it has multiple loaders as well. The 723 is the most capable, but my local dealer says the 513 is the better seller on the L3130 because it costs less. So of the various loaders available for the DK45s I'd have to wonder which one has the most sales? The least expensive? The most capable?

Thats interesting. Of all the 45S owners I know, including myself, the 451 loader was the only option. The other loaders from what I have seen were mounted on the older style 45 not the 45S. My 45S came from Kioti with the 451 loader already installed. I had no choice. I'm very pleased and impressed with the 451 capabilities. Those tractor companies sure don't make anything easy when they have different loaders for the same tractor. Sure have to be careful when comparing numbers. I can see where some would get confused.

 

[Oleozz]

From what I assumed when I bought my 45S was the 451 loader was an update and improvement over the other loaders with stronger lifting capabilities because of more pump capacity (about 2 gpm) in the 45S model over the 45. I just used mine to plow the drive, it is fast and strong with good curlback.