Underpowered 3130 back from dealer....

Poppa · Feb 1, 2005

( but I thought endless amonts of dead weight can only be good right...? )

Based on my wifes family...going to have to say no. Talk about black smoke belching power robbing agitators...

Mike

Bowhunter · Feb 1, 2005

( ( but I thought endless amonts of dead weight can only be good right...? )

Based on my wifes family...going to have to say no. Talk about black smoke belching power robbing agitators...

Mike )

ROTFLMBO! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll assume your wife does not regularly read the forum. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CTyler · Feb 1, 2005

I'd like to add a correction to my posts about a 20% slope. The tilt meter is measuring degrees not slope. A 20% slope is much steeper than a 20 deg slope. Sorry for any confusion.

I'm almost beggining to wonder if I got the performance model? I've got a little over 600 hours on the tractor now and bought it when the Grand L first came out. I still remember thinking the tractor was poochy at first until learning how the hydro works.

I used to do everything in low until getting some technique on the peddle. Then discovered I could do all but the heaviest work faster in medium more often than not using a gentle touch.

High range is poochy though...no getting around that one.

Its been a great tractor. My FIL is a heavy equipment operator and thinks the power is decent as well.

_RaT_ · Feb 1, 2005

"High range is poochy though...no getting around that one."

That's the really odd thing I have found on my L3830. Prior to it I had the L48. The final drive on the L3830 is spur gear, the L48 is planetary. Other then that, the HST is virtually identical. There are very different speeds in L and M but H was almost identical at 0-17mph. The L48 could barely get out of it's own shadow in high. It was a transport gear all the way. The slightest incline forced a downshift to M. The L3830 does not suffer from this nearly to that extent. I have even found myself mowing in H and not knowing it. That sounds impossible but the way I use HST, is exactly what happens. The funny thing is all my mowing is either on the sides of hills, or up and down the hills and yet with the L3830, I can be fooled when mowing as to the range I'm in between M and H. I always know when I'm in low. I have to chalk it up to the weight difference. The L48 was also ballasted but also 10 HP greater.

farmerEd · Feb 1, 2005

Rat may be onto something when he asks about the weight. I got to checking and the LA723 loader weighs about 1400lbs, the BH90 hoe is about 2000lbs with frame fastening hardware, add about 1000lbs for loaded R4 tires, about 350lbs for the cab and around another 200lbs for operator weight(Sorry Ramon I don't know your exact weight). Add it all up and you come out with about 5000lbs additional weight! That's without having a load of wet dirt in the front bucket.

An L3130 alone weighs only around 3200lbs. Can you really expect a 30HP tractor to have the equivalent of the weight of an additional L3130 plus a B7800 placed on it and then go merily up a steep grade? I wonder if the weight of these heavier duty attachments plus loaded tires is a little much for the L3130's engine and might be better suited to the 3830 and up unless your on flat ground.

I have a 2WD L3130 and I've been quite impressed with its' power, but I don't have any attachments on it. I do have loaded turf tires, but I can always remove that weight, but I think the additional 800lbs matches well with the horsepower of the tractor. Additional weight is only good up to a point. Adding too much is as bad or worse than too little. Too little and you spin tires, wasting HP. Too much and you wind up stalling the engine which appears it might be Ramon's problem.

bugstruck · Feb 1, 2005

RaT, You've got a good point on the ballast. Mine was a bit more lively with the BH off and the rear blade on. I was of the mind that it was just the thing to do when I bought mine... so I would never have to worry when using the front loader. Hadn't thought it all the way thru at purchase time. Currently, and for most of my envisioned uses (now), I have the BH on it unless I'm using the TPH.... which is quite seldom. So that even strengthens your comments. I'm nearly always going to be rear ballasted with something hanging out back there. Maybe that fluid should go. Even if after my heavy digging work is mostly done in a couple of years, I decide to run it with the FEL only, a ballast box would do the trick.... if it's even necessary.

I should have asked my salesman again on the ballasted weight. I mistook the weight at 450 lbs. overall when we discussed it. Now I know that it was per tire or 900 lbs. total. The manual reads slightly more if calcium is used but no matter, it's near a half ton either way.

You've got me thinkin about givin some soil a drinkin... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Got to see what they used for antifreeze. Know it wasn't calcium. Thought he said alcohol based. Guess the dealer can handle that if it's toxic. I might even be able to hit a happy medium (partial drain) where I get some performance gains and still have some below axle weight for the side slopes and for loader work without other rear ballast. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Could this put me at or below 7,000 lbs for my trailer size decision. Yup!

Thanks

_RaT_ · Feb 1, 2005

Chris, on side slopes where the real tractor anxiety comes, I quite frankly did not feel any more or less secure ballasted or unballasted. I don't know what my slope is, suffice it to say, with R4's, I will slip down the hill. I am always extra cautious and have my hand on the wheel ready to turn downhill if I feel the slightest uphill tires lift. I also slow down to prevent a jounce or bounce from accelerating my tilt momentum. All I can say is that with unballasted tires, I feel a whole lot more nimble. Perhaps it's my soil conditions, but when pulling my 1000lb boxscraper loaded, in low, I run out of power before I run out of traction, and that's with R4's. I'd give unballasted tires a try. You can easily reballast them yourself. Of course where I live, we don't freeze so the antifreeze is not needed but even so, I added used antifreeze in my old tractor with a adapter for the fill valve, a hose and a funnel. It also requires a floor jack or equivalent.

CTyler · Feb 1, 2005

Mowing in high gear on level ground would be ok. Typical mowing speed is 4.5mph with a 6' finish mower. Would mow faster if it was smoother. Its easier to keep the speed steady in medium. Trying to mow in high up the sides of my drive would probably pull it down to about 3.5mph.

Going up the drive in medium with the loader ~850 carrying a trash can and BB~700 it will run 6.8 mph. With the BH ~1300 and loader it runs 6.4. Using high it runs about 5.6 mph. So high pretty much only gets used on the road.

The only time high is really used is on the road from one end of the property to the other, 1/4 mile. There is a dip in the middle. So it runs up to 17mph on the down side fine and to drops to 12 on the up. Thats about all the high gear experiance I get.

fishman · Feb 1, 2005

FarmerEd,

What you say makes a lot of sense. I think you have the answer to his problem.

Tractors just aren't designed to go fast up steep hills, for whatever reason. They excel in low speed, high torque situations. My 2910 (which probably weighs half of the 3010 in question) does not like steep hills and high gear. Yet it is far overpowered compared to other tractors in it's size/weight range. In fact, it's rated almost identically to the 3010 at 30 gross hp.

Henro · Feb 1, 2005

I'd like to add a correction to my posts about a 20% slope. The tilt meter is measuring degrees not slope. A 20% slope is much steeper than a 20 deg slope. Sorry for any confusion. 

CTyler,

I think you got that backwards.

Percent slope is rise over run, which would make a 100% slope equal to 45 degrees.

Without doing the math (now my bedtime /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif ) I am pretty sure a slope given in degrees is always steeper than a slope with the same number, but given in percent...

In otherwords, a 20 deg slope is much steeper than a 20% slope.

Darren · Feb 2, 2005

I don't think there's anything wrong with his tractor. You don't run a tractor like an automobile. As long as Ramon tries that, he's going to be disappointed. I doubt he'd be happy with a 3830.

When the engine starts to bog, you have to back off the treadle or shift down. You don't press the treadle down farther and expect more power.

ramon49 · Feb 2, 2005

Darren, The point is this, if the tractor can turn around while brush hogging there would be no griping. This L3130 is underpowered for it's frame and the tasks as laid out in the Kubota Literature. I ask the members WHY then did Kubota come out with a 3430???? L3130 is underHP'd. They "goosed" the L3130 a bit and call it a L3430. I think were seeing what's left of the underpowered/poorly designed new L3130's. Fuel could be an issue, but use Essentalube all the time. When you look at this, poor performance is an issue and others are experiencing the same problems , something is wrong, could be the Pitchmen.. I'm thinking some of us got SNOOKERED by Kubota... Maybe, I need some help sorting this out, you guys have really been great and I appreciate your PUT..

Ramon

_RaT_ · Feb 2, 2005

I don't think your reading the posts Ramon. You seem to be the isolated case at least to the extreme you are suggesting your having. Is the L3130 underpowered, I guess it depends on your frame of reference. Did you not even get a chance to try the tractor before buying it? Did you bring it up with the dealer? How did your dealer respond? Did you know it had 24 PTO HP prior to purchase? If so did you think it would somehow be OK? The smoking is not normal, did you know that? Are your tires ballasted? Have you considered removing the ballast? Most importantly, can you not simply sell it losing a few dollars, chalking it up to experience and move on? That's what I did and what I would do now if I was you. In case you have not noticed, you really are quite the exception yet you seem bent on convincing others that they are wrong about how their L3130 is operating. Some have mentioned that the L3130 is not the strongest tractor but nothing like the issues you mention. Sell man sell! Right time, big demand, warranty fully intact, no tax to California buyers, no dents and scratches (presumably), low hours, you only have a small problem that can be easily remedied. Good luck!

SkyPup · Feb 2, 2005

I think my L-3130 is way too overpowered, whenever I get into some heavy duty work, all four tires start spinning. They should have decreased the torque curve on these Kubotas to avoid this terrible overpowered situation where all the wheels spin all the time when working under difficult conditions. You'd think they could have put some wimpy FEL on these things too, instead of the powerful LA723 FEL on ours. And the heavy duty 3PT setup on the rear too, could have really saved alot of money using some inferior substandard setup instead of this HD unit. Not to mention my 14kW PTO generator puts out 243 volts at 543 PTO rpm at 100amps without a whimper. You'd think that Kubota could have at least provided less PTO output than that on these new overpowered L-3130s, someone could get themselves hurt with all that power...... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

teddydo · Feb 2, 2005

If it will only pull a steep incline at .1 mph in low range something is wrong with your tractor. Will it pull a disk or turning plow? Do the tires ever spin?
I don't have a 3110. I have a 4330 and it is awsome in power and traction. I find it difficult to believe the 3110's are that bad unless something is wrong with them. my confused 2cents worth teddy

teddydo · Feb 2, 2005

If it won't pull I don't see how he can sell it. He should be able to tie it to a tree, put it in low range and at half trottle or about spin until it is buried. If his will not deliver enough power to the tires to spin them something is wrong.......teddy

Freds · Feb 2, 2005

Not to agree with everything ramon has said (I just haven't experienced all those things), but my own dealer called the L3130 underpowered for its weight.
I had mentioned in another topic how mine won't go up the road in front of my house in high range and with the HST pedal fully depressed. It is what I consider a slight grade - not really noticeable on a bicycle. That's the reason I was given after he checked things out at my 50 hour service. Knowing this I go up the road in M range and down the road in high. No problem, but if you ask me... I think high range may be a bit too high, at least for the hp at hand.
Mine also seemed to be one of the few on this list that won't pick the front end up with the loader arms. It will curling the bucket down, but It barely comes off the ground 1" when using the arms.

I just don't think you find all these little things out driving it around the dealer's lot, but once you do and stay within your particular tractor's limitations you will be much happier.

btolle · Feb 2, 2005

( ------------<SNIPPED>---------------
I had mentioned in another topic how mine won't go up the road in front of my house in high range and with the HST pedal fully depressed. It is what I consider a slight grade - not really noticeable on a bicycle. That's the reason I was given after he checked things out at my 50 hour service. Knowing this I go up the road in M range and down the road in high. No problem, but if you ask me... I think high range may be a bit too high, at least for the hp at hand.
Mine also seemed to be one of the few on this list that won't pick the front end up with the loader arms. It will curling the bucket down, but It barely comes off the ground 1" when using the arms.
)

I hae a B7510 but I doubt it operate much diferently than a 3130.

There are a couple of issues here. First is not being able to go up a grade with "in high range and with the HST pedal fully depressed".

High range is for traveling on fairly flat terrain at the fastest possible speed. It took me a while and a lot of reading on this forum to discover I was using the HST pedal improperly.

Being used to cars and trucks it was instinctive for me to push harder on the HST pedal like I do in a car if it slows down on a hill. That is the wrong thing to do with HST. I learned to put less pressure on the HST pedal if I was having trouble pulling a hill. Less pedal=more power to the ground.

I suggest you try backing off the HST pedal and see it that makes a difference going up the driveway.

Smoke from the engine indicates I am overloading (lugging) the engine and I need to back off the pedal until the RPM's come back up.

I was moving dirt the other day. I would fill the loader bucket then drop the box blade down and scrape until it was overflowing. All the while I was going uphill. As I reached the crest of the hill the engine would slow down and start to smoke if I held the HST pedal all the way down. Once I let off of the HST pedal the RPM's went back up, smoking stopped, and tractor pulled the hill just fine. Not as fast as it would have unloaded but remember, I had a full bucket of dirt and a boxblade full of dirt I was still dragging behind me.

Second issue is the loader not lifting the front end off the ground more than 1" with the bucket flat on the ground. The loader is designed to go a limited distance below the front wheels. At that point the hydraulic cylinders are at the end of their travel and they stop.

The front of the bucket can go farther down than the flat bottom of the bucket so the tires will be farther off the ground than it would be with the bucket flat.

The loader WILL pick the front end up off the ground but you have to be aware of the limitations of the loader arm cylinders. That is not poor quality, it is simply the way it is designed.

According to the Kubota specs "Digging Depth (when bucket is level) 4.9"/ I believe that would indicate that the bottom of the bucket should be able to go 4.9" below the level of the front wheels. You could check this out by driving the tractor up to a ditch where the loader can go as far as possible downward and measure the distance the loader is below the bottom of the tires. I think it should be 4.9".

Bill Tolle

Freds · Feb 2, 2005

( High range is for traveling on fairly flat terrain at the fastest possible speed. )
Exactly. That's my point! This seems unable to be achieved unless travelling downhill. That is why I suggest that Kubota may have high range a bit too high on the 3130 and my dealer feels the same way.
I look at the HST pedal as a sort of gear selector. All the way depressed is high gear. It seems sort of useless to have a range and gear that cannot be used simultaneously unless travelling down hill or on PERFECTLY flat terrain. Obviously you have one of two choices, back off the pedal or drop range.

My talking about the FEL was not saying it was poor quality. I was only pointing out that it's something I noticed as soon as I got my tractor. I asked about it here and it seemed exclusive to me.
Again, my dealer said not to expect the L3130 to act like my B7500 did. It's a much larger and heavier tractor. This could be where ramon was coming from. Some people equate larger with more power automatically, but this is why you can get larger engines with more hp in the same frame tractor, for how you will be using it.

( I just don't think you find all these little things out driving it around the dealer's lot, but once you do and stay within your particular tractor's limitations you will be much happier. )
I'll repeat what I said.

CTyler · Feb 2, 2005

Not sure if this is the case for you or not but....

In my case even though it slows from 17 to 12mph its still much faster than medium. Medium tops out around 9mph.