Tym T474 : the secret data

[EuroYanmar]

Good morning,

I spent a good deal of time searching for the power available at the PTO of this tractor.

No information on the tym european websites or adds.
No information on the tym north america websites.

My personal opinion, in such a situation, is built on my Antonio Carraro tractors experience : they never share this specification because there is a huge loss in the trasmission between the engine and the PTO.

Is it the same situation with Tym T474 ? Could anybody on the board share this information ?

Thanks for your help,

Phil

 

[ptsg]

PTO HP is listed on the US Website at least.

t474_spec | TYM Tractors

It doesn't mention if it's for the HST or Geared tractor. I'm thinking it's related to HST tractor since the difference is so big.

Also, was checking some older TYM models on TractorData and some of them will list PTO HP.

For geared tractors, PTO HP is usually around 5 to 7 HP less than the engine HP.

Sorry for the offtopic, but does the Antonio Carraro loose that much HP to the PTO? First tractor I looked when I was buying, was a Antonio Carraro Tigre 4400, That thing really caught my eye and it was and still is the perfect size for me. It's very compact and low profile, but the dealer wasn't interested on making a deal for my tractors I had for trade in. The only con for the AC would be, that it's not really a tractor meant to have a loader, but I would figure something out.

 

[TractorTYMe]

Screenshot taken from Tony's Tractor Adventure and TYM going over the T474 on Youtube.

 

[Walter L]

Wow the Antonio Carraro is a different looking tractor, wonder why built so low to the ground.

 

[ptsg]

Wow the Antonio Carraro is a different looking tractor, wonder why built so low to the ground.

It's a vineyard and orchard tractor built with stability for hilly grounds. Very typical stuff in Italy.

It's 4x4, with front and rear diff lockers as standard. It's available in articulated or front steering. Also, some models will have reversible operators platform, so you can face the back of the tractor with all the controls handy when mowing.

Can work side to side (not up/down) safely up to a 40 degree slope. Yes 40 degree, not 40% slope. If you have the balls, it can actually go a bit more.

 

[EuroYanmar]

Screenshot taken from Tony's Tractor Adventure and TYM going over the T474 on Youtube.

View attachment 676906

Hi Tym Norsky,

Congratulations for your youtube video about oil changing on TYM T474 !

Thanks for this last info.
So let's do a little calculation : (48,3-35,9)/48,3=25,7 %
If these specifications are the right ones there is a HUGE loss of power belween the engine and the PTO.
Like I said, the same situation as in Antonio Carraro tractors.
I cannot understand how, from a technical POV such a loss can be possible.

Phil

 

[EuroYanmar]

PTO HP is listed on the US Website at least.

t474_spec | TYM Tractors

It doesn't mention if it's for the HST or Geared tractor. I'm thinking it's related to HST tractor since the difference is so big.

Also, was checking some older TYM models on TractorData and some of them will list PTO HP.

For geared tractors, PTO HP is usually around 5 to 7 HP less than the engine HP.

Sorry for the offtopic, but does the Antonio Carraro loose that much HP to the PTO? First tractor I looked when I was buying, was a Antonio Carraro Tigre 4400, That thing really caught my eye and it was and still is the perfect size for me. It's very compact and low profile, but the dealer wasn't interested on making a deal for my tractors I had for trade in. The only con for the AC would be, that it's not really a tractor meant to have a loader, but I would figure something out.

Hi PTSG,

Yes all those isodiametric tractors are perfect for slopes, like in my area. In Italy the majority of tractors you encounter are of those kinds : Goldonis, Antonio Carraros, (the green Ferraris, the yellow Pasqualis, the blue BCS all the same except the color).
I have learnt on an italian machinery forum that their main problem is the power loss at the PTO. I have tried 3 times to ask for the power available at the PTO with Antonio Carraro dealers and they never gave me the information, finding each time a different reason for their silence.
Another problem : it is very difficult to mount a FEL. The only company selling loaders for these tractors is the firm Bonnati and these FEL are not ergonomic at all.

Guys, please have a look on the following Excel sheet and tell us what you think about it :

I would be very pleased if a TYM official could confirm or not the veracity of these datas for their tractors.



Phil

 

[ptsg]

Those isodiametric tractors are not loader friendly at all.

I can't quite figure out why these tractors have so much power loss at the PTO. It's pretty much a straight shot from the flywheel to the rear reduction gearbox for the PTO. Not sure why there are so many losses on such a simple drivetrain, but on the other hand, we don't really have the most accurate specs from the tractor manufacturers regarding PTO horsepower.

It would be nice if those guys that do the Nebraska tractor tests could test pretty much all the tractors.

Which by the way, they did test the TYM T603. Here is the link for the results, should give you a more accurate number for your calculations. https://tractortestlab.unl.edu/documents/TYM_T603.pdf

 

[EuroYanmar]

Which by the way, they did test the TYM T603. Here is the link for the results, should give you a more accurate number for your calculations. https://tractortestlab.unl.edu/documents/TYM_T603.pdf

Hi PTSG,

Yes, for sure this is the kind of results we need for tractors. But are they available for all the brands and models ?

Phil

 

[EuroYanmar]

Which by the way, they did test the TYM T603. Here is the link for the results, should give you a more accurate number for your calculations. https://tractortestlab.unl.edu/documents/TYM_T603.pdf

Hi PTSG,

Yes, for sure this is the kind of results we need for tractors. But are they available for all the brands and models ?

Phil

 

[ptsg]

Hi PTSG,

Yes, for sure this is the kind of results we need for tractors. But are they available for all the brands and models ?

Phil

Unfortunately, they're not available for all tractors. Mostly for the bigger tractors.

Here is the available ones: Test Reports | Tractor Test Lab | Nebraska

 

[TractorTYMe]

Hi Tym Norsky,

Congratulations for your youtube video about oil changing on TYM T474 !

Thanks for this last info.
So let's do a little calculation : (48,3-35,9)/48,3=25,7 %
If these specifications are the right ones there is a HUGE loss of power belween the engine and the PTO.
Like I said, the same situation as in Antonio Carraro tractors.
I cannot understand how, from a technical POV such a loss can be possible.

Phil

Thanks EuroYanmar, just trying to help build the technical how-to's for the T474. You're right at 25% loss is immense, but for an HST it seems to be pretty darn the standard these days whether you look at LS, Kioti?

 

[EuroYanmar]

Thanks EuroYanmar, just trying to help build the technical how-to's for the T474. You're right at 25% loss is immense, but for an HST it seems to be pretty darn the standard these days whether you look at LS, Kioti?

Yes,

I did'nt check for Kioti and LS. The LS brand is down in Europe. Kioti is here but I prefer TYM tractors.
The reason why I am performing all this computing is because I am interested in buying the same tractor you are blessed to own : the T475.
I may have chosen Branson F47 but if the cab models F47 CHn and TYM T475 are virtually the same, the ROPS models I am interested in are very different and IMHO TYM475 is superior.......except for its power loss at PTO, if it is confirmed !

BTW, if you find my Yanmar AF22 in US, just tell me, it was stolen during the night a year ago :laughing:

Phil

 

[EuroYanmar]

I dig up this topic because I found other datas on Kukje and Tym global websites :
For Kukje (Branson) :
Branson
And for Tong Yang Moolsan (Tym) :
Tym
There are much more technical informations on those websites than on national ones.
Regarding to the PTO power loss here is what I found :


So :
For Tym T474 HST : (48,3-32,3)/48,3 =33,12 %
For Tym T475 HST : (45,6-32,3)/45,6 = 29,16%
For Branson F47 Hn (HST) : (45-40)/45= 11 %

With three times less power loss at the PTO, Branson is clearly the winner...

Phil

 

[Walter L]

It's a vineyard and orchard tractor built with stability for hilly grounds. Very typical stuff in Italy.

It's 4x4, with front and rear diff lockers as standard. It's available in articulated or front steering. Also, some models will have reversible operators platform, so you can face the back of the tractor with all the controls handy when mowing.

Can work side to side (not up/down) safely up to a 40 degree slope. Yes 40 degree, not 40% slope. If you have the balls, it can actually go a bit more.

Thank you for the explanation pstg , that is a amazing tractor !

 

[TYM 474 Owner]

I have asked this ? of PTO HP drop to a few people. I asked Mr. Tony from Tony's Tractor Adventure who is featuring some TYM tractors on his channel. He stated "The HST 474 has 41 PTO HP. They have updated the brochure." Now if TYM has this new brochure available I do not know. But it would be great if they could update the website if the 41 PTO HP is indeed correct. Given other brands etc. a PTO HP drop of 9-10 from gross is reasonable and in line with what I would expect. 48.3 HP ---> 32.3 HP is a drop of 16 HP and that I would say is very unreasonable.

 

[ptsg]

I have asked this ? of PTO HP drop to a few people. I asked Mr. Tony from Tony's Tractor Adventure who is featuring some TYM tractors on his channel. He stated "The HST 474 has 41 PTO HP. They have updated the brochure." Now if TYM has this new brochure available I do not know. But it would be great if they could update the website if the 41 PTO HP is indeed correct. Given other brands etc. a PTO HP drop of 9-10 from gross is reasonable and in line with what I would expect. 48.3 HP ---> 32.3 HP is a drop of 16 HP and that I would say is very unreasonable.

I totally agree with you. 16 HP seems way too much.

I would expect probably 10 to 12 HP for the HST tractors and maybe 6 to 8HP for Gear tractors.

Then again, hardly anyone specifies PTO HP anymore. The few that list don't do really a good job on explaining those PTO HP numbers, if it's HST or Geared.

 

[LouNY]

I totally agree with you. 16 HP seems way too much.

I would expect probably 10 to 12 HP for the HST tractors and maybe 6 to 8HP for Gear tractors.

Then again, hardly anyone specifies PTO HP anymore. The few that list don't do really a good job on explaining those PTO HP numbers, if it's HST or Geared.

I'm curious why would you expect the hydrostatic tractors to have a larger HP loss then a gear drive tractor on the PTO.
Seeing as how the pto doesn't get driven by the hydro's.
I wouldn't expect much difference on the pto between gear and hydro, the hydro is running the hydro pump but i wouldn't expect that much drag.
PTO hp is the easiest one to measure once a tractor is built.
Now if they were advertising drawbar hp then I would expect to see a considerable difference.

Heck my 8050 is supposed to be 78 engine horse but only 65 pto horse and it's not a hydro.

 

[ptsg]

I agree with you if the tractor is going to be standstill like on a PTO dyno, PTO generator, running a water pump, etc and I probably should've mentioned when the tractor is moving as well as running the PTO.

Now if you're tilling the ground with a rototiller, the HST pump will be eat a decent amount of HP even though it's just barely moving. Or mowing, using a spading machine, etc. You get the point.

I was checking Kubota just for the kicks as they usually have listed the PTO HP on Tractordata and they do claim a 2 to 3HP difference between hydro and gear models.

Would be interesting to see the PTO HP values on a dyno if they could do it while moving the tractor.

 

[EuroYanmar]

I agree with you if the tractor is going to be standstill like on a PTO dyno, PTO generator, running a water pump, etc and I probably should've mentioned when the tractor is moving as well as running the PTO.

Now if you're tilling the ground with a rototiller, the HST pump will be eat a decent amount of HP even though it's just barely moving. Or mowing, using a spading machine, etc. You get the point.

I was checking Kubota just for the kicks as they usually have listed the PTO HP on Tractordata and they do claim a 2 to 3HP difference between hydro and gear models.

Would be interesting to see the PTO HP values on a dyno if they could do it while moving the tractor.

Gentlemen,

Korean engineers are aware of this question :

You can have a look on the data (curves) here for a Kioti tractor LX470C (gear model, I guess).
Have a look on the text too if you are fluent in Korean !
ResearchGate

PTO power depends directly of the engine RPM.

Phil