True 3rd function or diverter valve for grapple?

[kennyd]

ORRRRRR

Exactly, thanks.
Hey, you reminded me...I have something to talk to you about soon, I'll call one day.

 

[countrybumpkin]

so with the diverter, I'm waiting a second for it to switch and then I use the curl on the stick. With 3rd function I have 2 buttons, open and close in real time, correct?

A diverter is going to switch circuits instantly when you press the single button on the stick, only hesitation would be the time it takes you to move the loader stick which ever way you needed for the grapple to open or close. If you were already curling or uncurling and hit the button the grapple would respond instantly.

3rd function has the 2 buttons , one for open, and second for closed. With it you don't have to move the joystick at all to operate the grapple. So you can lift the loader, curl, and open or close the grapple all at the same time, basically your dividing the fluid flow between all three functions so it's going to slow down a bit the less GPM your tractor pumps. One thing with a 3rd function is , it's either on or off, no way to feather it, as with the diverter, it can be feather just like when curling or dumping the bucket.

Either set up will serve you well , just have to decide which YOU would prefer. Once you get use to using either you should be happy.

One other way and a lot cheaper, is to run hoses off a rear remote, only disadvantage is that you have two levers to operate the loader and grapple.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

A diverter is going to switch circuits instantly when you press the single button on the stick, only hesitation would be the time it takes you to move the loader stick which ever way you needed for the grapple to open or close. If you were already curling or uncurling and hit the button the grapple would respond instantly.

3rd function has the 2 buttons , one for open, and second for closed. With it you don't have to move the joystick at all to operate the grapple. So you can lift the loader, curl, and open or close the grapple all at the same time, basically your dividing the fluid flow between all three functions so it's going to slow down a bit the less GPM your tractor pumps. One thing with a 3rd function is , it's either on or off, no way to feather it, as with the diverter, it can be feather just like when curling or dumping the bucket.

Either set up will serve you well , just have to decide which YOU would prefer. Once you get use to using either you should be happy.

One other way and a lot cheaper, is to run hoses off a rear remote, only disadvantage is that you have two levers to operate the loader and grapple.

VERY WELL SAID. :thumbsup:

 

[Rustyiron]

So your saying you can't have a nice switch AND use a diverter? Or am a mis-reading your comment?

No, I am suprised! Nice job. I pictured a funky switch on the dash somewhere or a manual valve up on the loader frame or something. I could see using your set up or what K0ua did or Mtn Views "new handle" set up for sure!

 

[streamin]

A diverter is going to switch circuits instantly when you press the single button on the stick, only hesitation would be the time it takes you to move the loader stick which ever way you needed for the grapple to open or close. If you were already curling or uncurling and hit the button the grapple would respond instantly.

3rd function has the 2 buttons , one for open, and second for closed. With it you don't have to move the joystick at all to operate the grapple. So you can lift the loader, curl, and open or close the grapple all at the same time, basically your dividing the fluid flow between all three functions so it's going to slow down a bit the less GPM your tractor pumps. One thing with a 3rd function is , it's either on or off, no way to feather it, as with the diverter, it can be feather just like when curling or dumping the bucket.

Either set up will serve you well , just have to decide which YOU would prefer. Once you get use to using either you should be happy.

One other way and a lot cheaper, is to run hoses off a rear remote, only disadvantage is that you have two levers to operate the loader and grapple.

That is the clearest explanation yet, thanks for that! I didn't realize you only had on/off with 3rd function, I can see the ability to use "feather" an advantage. I think that is what I will do, thanks to everyone who commented! One more question: is the button a press and hold or is it press /release and it stays with the chosen circuit?

 

[kennyd]

One more question: is the button a press and hold or is it press /release and it stays with the chosen circuit?

Diverters are generally operated with a momentary switch, so the "new" circuit is only active when the switch is held in.

 

[ovrszd]

so with the diverter, I'm waiting a second for it to switch and then I use the curl on the stick. With 3rd function I have 2 buttons, open and close in real time, correct?

Yes. Budweiser John described the hesitation of the diverter very well.

Here's his statement concerning loading the Grapple using a Diverter: What I learned very quickly is some hand coordination is required and when hitting the diverter switch it's necessary to pause a second or two for the hydraulic pressure to build in the grapple cylinder thus clamping the load securely. In the case of compressible material such as brush it's sometime necessary to depress the diverter switch more than once after the initial load is picked up to insure a tight grasp.

With true 3rd function you can lift the boom, curl the Grapple and clamp the jaws all at the same time. No confusion, hesititation or additional coordination required. I can approach a pile of brush with the Grapple open and rolled forward. Set it down on the brush pile. Push the "close" button with my thumb and hold it causing the Grapple to apply closure pressure. Then curl the Grapple back while also raising the boom. The Grapple will automatically close tighter on the brush as things move. In one swoop I can pick up that brush pile leaving only the very small stuff behind.

For users that say having all 3 functions at once isn't important I'd suspect they've never had that feature.

I'll try to shoot some video when it warms up.

As for cost. That's a personal issue for every buyer and I'm certainly not going to tell you what's affordable or cost effective. That's for you to figure out. I've moved thousands of loads with my Grapple. The initial investment gets cheaper per use every time I crank the tractor.

 

[paulwestski]

Here's my thread on my true third function on a Kubota L4240
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...83-l4240-3rd-function-install.html?highlight=

Depends on which method you prefer diverter or true third function and how much you're willing to invest.

 

[ovrszd]

Here's my thread on my true third function on a Kubota L4240
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...83-l4240-3rd-function-install.html?highlight=

Depends on which method you prefer diverter or true third function and how much you're willing to invest.

Very nice work. And a great price. I bought a Kubota kit and installed it myself. On my tractor, not sure how you could get a cleaner install building it yourself. But I've probably got more physical space than you do. Don't quote me, but I think I paid somewhere around $1100 for mine. Would have to dig to find out for sure.

 

[jcummins]

Yes. Budweiser John described the hesitation of the diverter very well.

Here's his statement concerning loading the Grapple using a Diverter: What I learned very quickly is some hand coordination is required and when hitting the diverter switch it's necessary to pause a second or two for the hydraulic pressure to build in the grapple cylinder thus clamping the load securely. In the case of compressible material such as brush it's sometime necessary to depress the diverter switch more than once after the initial load is picked up to insure a tight grasp.

With true 3rd function you can lift the boom, curl the Grapple and clamp the jaws all at the same time. No confusion, hesititation or additional coordination required. I can approach a pile of brush with the Grapple open and rolled forward. Set it down on the brush pile. Push the "close" button with my thumb and hold it causing the Grapple to apply closure pressure. Then curl the Grapple back while also raising the boom. The Grapple will automatically close tighter on the brush as things move. In one swoop I can pick up that brush pile leaving only the very small stuff behind.

For users that say having all 3 functions at once isn't important I'd suspect they've never had that feature.

I'll try to shoot some video when it warms up.

As for cost. That's a personal issue for every buyer and I'm certainly not going to tell you what's affordable or cost effective. That's for you to figure out. I've moved thousands of loads with my Grapple. The initial investment gets cheaper per use every time I crank the tractor.

Had diverter, now 3rd function....and ovrszd explains it real well. 3rd function is better, and for me was similar in cost.

I used a ATV winch toggle switch tied to the loader handle, it actually works quite well and waterproof. Think it was $15.

 

[streamin]

ovrszd and jcummins: so do you feel there is no need to feather anything, just full on or off? Maybe trying pick up something small and needing more accuracy?

 

[lostcreekranch]

Some of the above 3rd function operation comments /descriptions could lead to confusion regarding "feathering" of the grapple lid. When you press open or close you can stop the lid / lids at any point in their rotation. It isn't full open or full closed. Yeah, you cannot vary the speed of open or close but, that's not an issue.

My 3rd function controls, on both tractors, is a toggle switch and not two discreet buttons. My 3rd function hydraulic connectors, on front of FEL, are one male and one female. This assures that whichever tractor grapple, tree puller, etc. is installed on, pushing top side of toggle switch opens and bottom side closes.

 

[ovrszd]

ovrszd and jcummins: so do you feel there is no need to feather anything, just full on or off? Maybe trying pick up something small and needing more accuracy?

Once in awhile I wish I could delicately close on an item, but that's very rare. The ability to have 3 functions at once far outweigh that ability.

Every variation has +/-. Even the type of switch used. At a minimum locate the switch on the joystick so it can be used by a single digit without removing the hand from the joystick handle.

 

[k0ua]

Sometimes when I pick up small branches that have blown into my road from a windstorm or when I move small rocks, I am glad I can feather the clamp force. If you clamp a small rock too hard, it will explode. I know this from experience. Below is an example of picking up a small rock. It is not a big problem most of the time, but sometimes you want to "soft mouth" something.

 

[ovrszd]

James, when I want it most is when picking up a single dead limb that spans the Grapple. If I grip it too tightly I'll break it into small pieces that I then have to chase down.

When I used my Grapple on my previous L4400 tractor the GPM was low enough that I didn't have issues. Now with the M9540 it's much more noticeable.

I've always said a Grapple will make a "lazy" man out of you. I'll spend a couple minutes trying to pick up something small rather than get off the seat and do it physically......

 

[k0ua]

James, when I want it most is when picking up a single dead limb that spans the Grapple. If I grip it too tightly I'll break it into small pieces that I then have to chase down.

When I used my Grapple on my previous L4400 tractor the GPM was low enough that I didn't have issues. Now with the M9540 it's much more noticeable.

I've always said a Grapple will make a "lazy" man out of you. I'll spend a couple minutes trying to pick up something small rather than get off the seat and do it physically......

I know exactly of what you speak. I have picked up some pretty small "twigs" out of the road. I figure it is just good practice that might come in handy some day to gain more precision. It is so easy with a hydro tractor to position correctly, and my wicked single lid precision fits to its mating lower tine.

 

[ovrszd]

I know exactly of what you speak. I have picked up some pretty small "twigs" out of the road. I figure it is just good practice that might come in handy some day to gain more precision. It is so easy with a hydro tractor to position correctly, and my wicked single lid precision fits to its mating lower tine.

I frequently do Grapple chores for my neighbor at the farm. He just shakes his head in amazement of how precise I can be with it. That's the result of those "small" tasks used to fine tune my skills.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Yep , I've exploded a few limbs of my own. I too have gotten lazy and spend a bunch of "fun" time picking up stuff that i really should just get put and do by hand, but no fun in that. my last 2 tractors I have built 3rd functions for , so I've stayed with that setup because I'm use to it. Its a give and take between the 2 systems and just depends on uses and what you've gotten use to using. Either way you will be happy to have a grapple.

 

[ovrszd]

Yep , I've exploded a few limbs of my own. I too have gotten lazy and spend a bunch of "fun" time picking up stuff that i really should just get put and do by hand, but no fun in that. my last 2 tractors I have built 3rd functions for , so I've stayed with that setup because I'm use to it. Its a give and take between the 2 systems and just depends on uses and what you've gotten use to using. Either way you will be happy to have a grapple.

Your last sentence says it all !!!!

The most poorly configured hydraulic Grapple is soooooo much better than no Grapple at all...... :coo

 

[lostcreekranch]

One thing I've seen on a couple of grapples, both 3rd function and diverter control, is really high hydraulic flow to grapple lids. Both could be corrected with some flow restriction which should result in a bit slower open / close speed and smoother operation