Trickle battery charger

[rScotty]

All flooded cell batteries produce lead sulfate without exception and that is why a quality battery has it's plates spaced off the bottom of the case because the flaked off lead sulfate will drop to the bottom of the battery case and over time, will contact the bottom of the plates and short them out (lead sulfate conducts electricity). I don't get the 'desulfation' deal at all. All flooded cell batteries will eventually expire from it (lead sulfate shorting). What determines that is only the spacing of the plates from the floor of the case. The best way to avoid it is, replace the battery in a timely manner which is something most people don't do until they fail. Myself, I 'rotate' my starting batteries every 4-5 years maximum. Don't matter if they load test good or not because the 'end of life' can come at a bad time. It's also a falsehood the flooded cell batteries fail more in cold weather more than hot weather. The only reason why they fail in cold weather is the cranking amps demanded by a cold engine is much greater than during warm weather and a battery on it's last legs in cold weather will fail. They fail in warm weather as well.

Batteries have to be the most neglected part of any engine driven equipment.

Correct - at least the part about the conductive material falling to the bottom and shorting the plates.

When I was a kid we rebuilt car batteries at the garage I worked at. Basically you take the top of the batter off, lift out the plates, scrub out the crud that was shorting them out. Then reassemble and add acid. That will often bring them back to new. If that didn't work, that batt went onto the scrap lead pile.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Raising the voltages in the circuits in a battery powered device is easy electrically. Some processes just work better at higher voltages. So the input voltage is not the limit.

I was wondering about that. But even if an add-on like Canadus can create higher voltage spikes, so far I've only seen high frequency pulses mentioned by the manufacturers.

 

[rScotty]

I was wondering about that. But even if an add-on like Canadus can create higher voltage spikes, so far I've only seen high frequency pulses mentioned by the manufacturers.

Pulsing the direct current input is the first step in generating a different voltage.
Maybe their advertising got the terrms confused.

Bottom line is that any time you use a battery to output a different voltage, you do so by pulsing the basic battery voltage. That unavoidably makes that different output voltage pulse at the same frequency. Both frequency and voltage can be made to be anything wanted.

I don't know about the desulfation process, but it wouldn't surprise me if the specific voltage and frequency to break down sulfated lead is something that has been known a long time.

 

[John_Mc]

FYI desulfation mode only runs periodically, it doesn't run continuously, it would overcharge the battery as it has to raise the voltage to do it. generally it jumps between float and desulfation.

That depends on the brand.

BatteryMINDer desulfation runs any time it is connected. Since they use brief high frequency pulses, rather than high voltage pulses, they do not overcharge the battery.

NOCO charger run their desulfation circuit only during the actual charging process. Once the charger switches to float mode, the desulfation feature is turned off. At no point in the process is the battery overcharged.

Desulfation should not be confused with equalization, the latter is a process where banks of batteries are intentionally "overcharged" for a specific period of time. This is done to bring a low battery in the bank up to snuff. When the equalization process is done any batteries that are over voltage drift back down to their desired voltage. It should not be done for an extended period as it will boil off electrolyte. It's also recommended that non-sealed flooded lead-acid batteries be topped off with distilled water after an equalization charge.

 

[5030]

All sounds good if you want to run a battery util it fails. I don't. I replace mine every few years if the load test weak.

 

[Advil]

Yep. Different stokes for different folks. I like getting 10 years out of a battery if it'll do it and the desulfating minders will keep some batteries going what seems like forever.

Another tech that had been good to us are lifepo4 starter batteries. I have one on a generator and one on our big riding mower and both have gone over 5 years so far no problem which means the extra cost is long since paid. Tiny and light too.

 

[LittleBill21]

lifepo4 starter batteries

which ones are you using, most lifep04 aren't rated for starting. are you cycling them at all, or are they sitting on a float charger, they need to be cycled from time to time.

 

[John_Mc]

All sounds good if you want to run a battery util it fails. I don't. I replace mine every few years if the load test weak.

I replace my batteries "on condition". It's usually pretty obvious to me when a battery is getting weak. I've had this tractor 23 years. I've been caught with a battery that wouldn't start the tractor exactly once. That was when the tractor was 4 or 5 years old and the OEM battery faded. I jumped it, did what I needed to get done that day, and bought a new one. Since then, if I won't be running the tractor for an extended time, it goes on a battery maintainer.

The battery currently in my tractor (an Optima Yellow Top AGM) has been in there for 8.5+ years and is doing just fine.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I bought a new pu in 2012, it still has the original battery in it and it's working fine.

SR

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I find it interesting that some claim that desulfation doesn't work.

My first experience with that technology was solar powered PulseTechs used by the military. Not that something used by a government agency is proof of that it actually works, but it did pique my interest as I was doing battery testing at the time.

Later, having several discussions on the subject with the chief electrical engineer at PACCAR (Peterbilt and Kenworth) who made me aware of the Canadus units I went all in. If somebody with that kind of knowledge is praising the technology, I'm listening.

Over the years since it sure seems like desulfation does work, and quite well, based on my own experience. Does that mean people should believe me? Of course not, but please do try to keep an open mind and learn about what's out there.

 

[Advil]

which ones are you using, most lifep04 aren't rated for starting. are you cycling them at all, or are they sitting on a float charger, they need to be cycled from time to time.

One is PowerTex and the other TPE. Bought them quite a few years ago so current prices aren't relevant. The PowerTex seems really high right now, the TPE still fairly reasonable for 300-400CCA.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08JYJCCTR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08XQZP2QY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[lman]

I thought about getting one of those for my Goldwing but I read too many bad reviews and chickened out. Too many electronics on the new goldwings to take a chance.

 

[John_Mc]

which ones are you using, most lifep04 aren't rated for starting. are you cycling them at all, or are they sitting on a float charger, they need to be cycled from time to time.

Apparently, some are used as starting batteries in smaller engines, such as ATVs or motorcycles. They are not generally used to start cars and trucks (nor I assume in tractors). See the following article:

https://www.batteriesplus.com/blog/power/lithium-starting

I considered using a small (ATV-sized) LiFePO4 battery in my forwarding trailer. All it does is runs the remote control receiver and a couple of solenoids. The engine has no charging system, so it's a bit of a deep cycle application, particularly if I'm out for a full day of use. LiFePO4 batteries do work very well in deep cycle applications. That fact that these batteries should not be charged when they are below 32˚F caused me to drop that idea, since I use the trailer extensively in the winter and have no heated space to store it.

I have noticed some motorcycle friends who have switched to LiFePO4 batteries. However, they do not ride in colder weather, so that below freezing limitation is not an issue for them.

 

[LittleBill21]

Apparently, some are used as starting batteries in smaller engines, such as ATVs or motorcycles. They are not generally used to start cars and trucks (nor I assume in tractors). See the following article:

https://www.batteriesplus.com/blog/power/lithium-starting

I considered using a small (ATV-sized) LiFePO4 battery in my forwarding trailer. All it does is runs the remote control receiver and a couple of solenoids. The engine has no charging system, so it's a bit of a deep cycle application, particularly if I'm out for a full day of use. LiFePO4 batteries do work very well in deep cycle applications. That fact that these batteries should not be charged when they are below 32˚F caused me to drop that idea, since I use the trailer extensively in the winter and have no heated space to store it.

I have noticed some motorcycle friends who have switched to LiFePO4 batteries. However, they do not ride in colder weather, so that below freezing limitation is not an issue for them.

yep, short of heating it which you can some are made with heating built in as well. prolly best to stick to lead acid.

 

[John_Mc]

Back on the subject of chargers/maintainers:

I see that Northern Tool is running a special on the BatteryMINDer model 12117TC. This is a 12V, 1 amp, smart charger/maintainer with temperature compensation and desulfation. Normally $40, now on sale for $20.

I own a lot of their maintainers. Typically, I go for models that are a little higher up in their line-up. (The 12117TC is their lowest price model, and is currently only sold to Northern Tool.) However, at that price, it would be hard to pass up if I needed another maintainer. I own a 12117 (does not include temperature compensation - it's the predecessor to the currently made 12117TC). It's over 20 years old and still working as-designed.

 

[LittleBill21]

Back on the subject of chargers/maintainers:

I see that Northern Tool is running a special on the BatteryMINDer model 12117TC. This is a 12V, 1 amp, smart charger/maintainer with temperature compensation and desulfation. Normally $40, now on sale for $20.

I own a lot of their maintainers. Typically, I go for models that are a little higher up in their line-up. (The 12117TC is their lowest price model, and is currently only sold to Northern Tool.) However, at that price, it would be hard to pass up if I needed another maintainer. I own a 12117 (does not include temperature compensation - it's the predecessor to the currently made 12117TC). It's over 20 years old and still working as-designed.

be aware this is only for lead acid, has temp compenstation, and doesn't seem to have a mode for agm either.

the noco is 3 dollars more and support lithium and agm as well.

Amazon.com: NOCO GENIUS1: 1A 6V/12V Smart Battery Charger – Automatic Maintainer, Trickle Charger & Desulfator with Overcharge Protection & Temperature Compensation – For Lead-Acid & Lithium Batteries : Automotive

Buy NOCO GENIUS1: 1A 6V/12V Smart Battery Charger – Automatic Maintainer, Trickle Charger & Desulfator with Overcharge Protection & Temperature Compensation – For Lead-Acid & Lithium Batteries: Battery Chargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

amzn.to

i would take the noco simply for future compatibility with lithium. i actually just bought another since they are on sale still.

 

[bmaverick]

Correct - at least the part about the conductive material falling to the bottom and shorting the plates.

When I was a kid we rebuilt car batteries at the garage I worked at. Basically you take the top of the batter off, lift out the plates, scrub out the crud that was shorting them out. Then reassemble and add acid. That will often bring them back to new. If that didn't work, that batt went onto the scrap lead pile.

You can sort-of do that today.

- Take a lead-acid battery and drain it
- Fill with warm Coke Cola, 80F ideally and then cap it off
- Let it sit for about 36 to 48 hours in a warm place
- Every now and then, come by and shake it
- Drain the Coke out
- Fill with distilled or RO water. Shake it around.
- Drain. Repeat process till it is rinsed clear.
- Refill with sulfuric acid diluted with distilled/RO water to about 35% (1:3)
- Place on trickle charger or a good smart charger for the next 48hrs on the lowest amps.

This only works on lead-acid batteries that can hold a charge of 9VDC or better.
This will NOT work on AGM nor gel cell batteries. (RV/Marine)

You can use commercial sulfuric acid drain cleaner WITHOUT the enzymes. Just do the percentage calculations to get it close.

This will make a normal Group 24 or 36 battery fresh again for the next 6 to 8 years easily.

You know Coke can dissolve metal nails right, it's a great cleaner for battery scaled plates too.

There are at least 3 YT vids on this procedure as well. Been doing this on those maintenance free batteries since early 2000s. They have to have the caps that pop off with a flat blade screw driver.

NOTE: wear safety glasses and throw away gloves. PPE is a must for this.
Sulfuric acid works better than round-up, so dump it on weeds or on an old tree stump to get rid of. Coke is toxic and not natural, you can dump it down the sink.

This ZEP product is 100% SA. SKU ZUSADO32 at Lowes

 

[grsthegreat]

be aware this is only for lead acid, has temp compenstation, and doesn't seem to have a mode for agm either.

the noco is 3 dollars more and support lithium and agm as well.

Amazon.com: NOCO GENIUS1: 1A 6V/12V Smart Battery Charger – Automatic Maintainer, Trickle Charger & Desulfator with Overcharge Protection & Temperature Compensation – For Lead-Acid & Lithium Batteries : Automotive

Buy NOCO GENIUS1: 1A 6V/12V Smart Battery Charger – Automatic Maintainer, Trickle Charger & Desulfator with Overcharge Protection & Temperature Compensation – For Lead-Acid & Lithium Batteries: Battery Chargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

amzn.to

i would take the noco simply for future compatibility with lithium. i actually just bought another since they are on sale still.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I was wanting to get a few more. Just ordered 2 more of these

 

[John_Mc]

Back on the subject of chargers/maintainers:

I see that Northern Tool is running a special on the BatteryMINDer model 12117TC. This is a 12V, 1 amp, smart charger/maintainer with temperature compensation and desulfation. Normally $40, now on sale for $20.

I own a lot of their maintainers. Typically, I go for models that are a little higher up in their line-up. (The 12117TC is their lowest price model, and is currently only sold to Northern Tool.) However, at that price, it would be hard to pass up if I needed another maintainer. I own a 12117 (does not include temperature compensation - it's the predecessor to the currently made 12117TC). It's over 20 years old and still working as-designed.

be aware this is only for lead acid, has temp compenstation, and doesn't seem to have a mode for agm either.

the noco is 3 dollars more and support lithium and agm as well.

Amazon.com: NOCO GENIUS1: 1A 6V/12V Smart Battery Charger – Automatic Maintainer, Trickle Charger & Desulfator with Overcharge Protection & Temperature Compensation – For Lead-Acid & Lithium Batteries : Automotive

Buy NOCO GENIUS1: 1A 6V/12V Smart Battery Charger – Automatic Maintainer, Trickle Charger & Desulfator with Overcharge Protection & Temperature Compensation – For Lead-Acid & Lithium Batteries: Battery Chargers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

amzn.to

i would take the noco simply for future compatibility with lithium. i actually just bought another since they are on sale still.

The AGM charging profile is one of the reasons I usually choose one of BatteryMINDER's higher end chargers, unless I'm dedicating it to a vehicle I know will use the standard flooded lead-acid charging profile

However, while the BAtteryMINDer 12117TC does not have a dedicated AGM charging profile, it is safe for use with AGM batteries. Many AGM battery manufacturers (including Optima) suggest a charging profile very similar to a flooded lead-acid battery. The ones which do suggest a different charging profile (such as Odyssey) typically specify a battery float charging voltage of 0.2 volts higher than a typical lead-acid battery. From what I've heard, these can also safely be charged with the standard flooded lead-acid charging profile. The battery may be slightly undercharged, but still protected from desulfation, and better than not having it on a maintainer at all.

The NOCO charger @LittleBill21 linked is a great deal and a well designed charger/maintainer. After using my old BatteryMINDer model 1500 (no dedicated AGM charging profile) for years on my wife's motorcycle, I switched to that same NOCO charger to get the AGM charging profile. There are only 2 things I don't like about the NOCO chargers:

1. They use a proprietary connector, rather than the industry standard SAE connector found on many other chargers. This required buying a $15 adaptor to go from the NOCO charger to the SAE pigtails I have installed on almost all of my equipment. (I could buy the NOCO ring terminals, which already have their proprietary connector on the end, but then none of my other chargers would connect.)
2. Their desulfation mode only operates while the unit is in charge mode. It is idle durig the "float" stage, which is active once the battery is fully charged. Not a huge deal, since a fully charged battery generally will not suffer from sulfation, but it can require multiple resets and charging cycles to recover a moderate to heavily sulfated battery.

Even with those concerns, I do really like the NOCO chargers. I own two: one on my wife's motorcycle (AGM battery) and another 2-bank 12 volt charger on my antique military pickup truck (24 volt system consisting of two 12V "maintenance free" lead acid batteries). Both chargers have been working well for the past 5+ years.

 

[Duds13]

Hulkman Sigma 10 on sale as well as the Sigma 5.

Amazon

Amazon - Sigma 5