Trailer Sway, any thoughts?

Dave___in___CT · Jul 21, 2004

Hi...

Experienced the same problem with my Dodge 2500 (diesel)... 18' 2-axle 10,000 GVW trailer... Kubota L3130 w/ loader & backhoe...

Scary/dangerous say when loaded bucket-end 1st... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Little sway when I load the tractor backwards (backhoe towards truck)...

As mentioned... measured hitch-to-ground before loading... and made sure it dropped ~1 1/2" after loading...

Also...
Road conditions... speed... curves... add to the mix...

Good tips !

Dave...

gsganzer · Jul 21, 2004

Swaying is usually caused by the trailer not being level. Either the hitch is too high or too low. I've had the same problem with a boat trailer. I changed the hitch height and the problem was fixed.

hfd376 · Jul 21, 2004

Thanks for the info, I tow my BX1800 et al on a 16' tandem axel trailer. I always back it on and watch the back end of the truck for a little squat. I never have any swaying problems, and just making sure it stays that way!

Doug

Darren · Jul 21, 2004

As one of the posters stated a weight equalizing hitch will make a big difference. Another option used with one of those hitches is an anti-sway device that looks like a long shock absorber that mounts on the hitch and runs back to the trailer. It resists the side to side sway.

Years ago I built a triple axle trailer and for maneuverability placed the axles near the center of the trailer. Talk about the tail wagging the dog, the first time I put that on the road, unloaded, I wasn't sure I was going to survive. You had to keep the steering wheel motionless on straights and in curves make any change gradually. Any jerkiness in the steering wheel resulted in the trailer violently vearing from side to side. Until I got things under control, I had a big chunk of the vinyl seat sucked up my butt. My pucker factor was off the scale that day. I made a trip of a thousand miles and left grip marks in the steering wheel.

Before the return trip I added the equalizing hitch and the anti-sway device. The return trip was a pleasure.

fctadam · Jul 21, 2004

Thanks you guys are the best. I had a feeling that tongue weight was the issue. I will try backing it on and see what happens. I think the added weight of the backhoe hanging off the rear is the probelm.

You guys are the best.

cwa · Jul 21, 2004

Just an FYI. I have a similar setup trailer and truck wise with about the same tractor weight.

I used the local scales to set my tounge weight to 1000lbs which sinks the tail of the truck about 2 1/2 inches, the truck looks just level front to rear at that point. My truck is a Ram 2500 also but it is 4wd, not sure if that makes a difference.

The rear tractor tires are over the forward trailer axle to get the tongue weight.

I'm curious to hear how backing the tractor on works for you, ie does the backhoe fit etc.

Also, if you dont have easy access to truck scales, this may help:
Determing Trailer Weight

dummy · Jul 22, 2004

I used the local scales to set my tounge weight to 1000lbs which sinks the tail of the truck about 2 1/2 inches, the truck looks just level front to rear at that point. A little disruption here. That's a lot of tongue weight. Hopefully you're running all class IV equipment including the right balls and drops. Weight distribution hitches help, but do not override the right stuff. Soapbox off. [image]http://[/image]

johnday · Jul 22, 2004

Your problem could be tongue weight, but I'll bet your trailer isn't level, is it. I have a 12000# MacLander, when I bought it the coupler was adjusted as low as it would go. Not too level behind a 250 Superduty 4times4. The trailer handled like crap, swaying at around 50 and jariing your fillings loose it rode so hard. This has happened before with other trailers of mine so I just kept the speed down on the way home. Broke out the wrenches and raised the coupler to level the trailer. Both your axles should be evenly on the ground. You said it looked like you could raise your ball about 2". Please try this before you go out and spend several hundred bucks on an equalizing hitch, sway control, and whatever else. I just can't imagine a truck like yours can't handle this trailer. I marked on my trailer bed where to stop the tractor when the rear of the truck sags about 1 1/2". Beleive me, theres not much worse than the way some idiots drag trailers around. Try this and let us know how it turns out, the primary concern here is for everyones safety, yours and the other drivers. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

cwa · Jul 22, 2004

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I should have included the fact that I had to upgrade the hitch, drawbar and trailer coupler in my post above. The stock towing package includes only a class III hitch.

I had to go with a class V hitch, drawbar etc. to get the safety margin I wanted.

What I have now does ok but I hope to upgrade to a gooseneck setup at some point. I am told they pull better and tend to be safer under heavy loads.

Joe1 · Jul 23, 2004

Johnday

Not to beat a dead horse, but I still believe that the level of the trailer changes the hitch weight. Look at a single axle trailer for example. When empty and level, the hitch may weigh 100 lbs. Tip the trailer tongue up high enough, and in many cases, the trailer will sit on its tail gate end witht he hitch unsupported in the air. Conversely, tip it down and it's harder to lift off the ground.

Nothing has changed, the empty trailer still weights the same, Level, the tongue drops from the weight, yet lift it and the tongue has no weight.

On the road, the uneven high front low rear attitude results in less than adequate tongue weight.

Fifth wheel trailers tow so well in part due to the high tongue weight.

Again, my two cents.

Joe

johnday · Jul 23, 2004

Joe; No arguement there, I agree 100% . I've always thought of weight transfer sort of like a liquid. Is this a new physical law? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I think most tandems [especialy] have the center of gravity rear of the mid point so when they are level you will have close to the proper tongue weight when trailer is empty. We're the ones that screwup the CG by not having it level or improperly loading the trailer. I'm not a rocket scientist, I hope I cleared up my thoughts. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 23, 2004

My trailer has an especially heavy tongue weight for it's length and overall weight. The tandem axles are close to a yard further back than you'd normally see on a trailer of that length. It's designed that way because of it's original intended use.

Because of that and other reasons I tow with the front end high and the tail low. In my case I still have plenty of tongue weight even empty. When I load it i have to make certain I do so based on the location of the load relative to the tandems rather than based on the location of the load relative to the overall bed.

johnday · Jul 23, 2004

( My trailer has an especially heavy tongue weight for it's length and overall weight. The tandem axles are close to a yard further back than you'd normally see on a trailer of that length. It's designed that way because of it's original intended use.

Like you said. What was your trailer originally designed for. Almost sounds like it might be one similar to what is pulled behind dumptrucks with a TLB on it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 23, 2004

My trailer was designed to allow me to transport two vehicles with it. The trailer is an electric hydraulic tilt bed unit. It's used as follows; the first vehicle is loaded to the front and secured then the second vehicle's front wheels are put onto a swivel platform which is on the rear of the trailer bed. When those wheels are secured the bed is lowered raising the rear of the trailer and, hence, the front end of the second vehicle which is towed much like one would be on a tow dolly.

The tandems are set rearward on the trailer because the load is centered much further back than a conventional load (all on the bed) would be. The second vehicle actually REDUCES the tongue weight when it's secured and the bed lowered.

I posted some pictures of it loaded up with two Chevy trucks hooked behind my little Peterbilt 330 day cab (that had a receiver hitch at the back of the frame) quite a while ago. The Pete was certainly overkill but, as I recall, it was posted to a thread where people were talking about 'the best' tow vehicle to have and I couldn't resist showing that off a little. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I actually tow this behind my little Chevy Tahoe with a Vortec 350, automatic transmission NOT in overdrive using a Valley weight distribution hitch system without anti-sway brakes attached.

johnday · Jul 23, 2004

Gary; I vaguely recall that thread. You sure got me hands down when it comes to a tow vehicle. Could you repost those pictures? I, for one, would like to see them again. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 23, 2004

I'll have to take a look through some old disks and see if I can locate those. If I still have them around somewhere I'll be happy to repost them.

The little Pete 330 was just used for the picture to show off a little. I never used it with that trailer. As I said, I usually tow with my little Chevy Tahoe with a Vortec 350 and weight distributing hitch and it pulls just fine.

There is a little story behind the Pete, actually. I'd bought a really nice eight place car trailer from a finance company out of Texas for a very good price. So far, so good...except I'm not IN Texas and don't really have any good way to get it back here.

I found this little Peterbilt 330 at a Kenworth dealer down in Florida that would make a great match to the trailer so I bought it then flew a driver down to Palm Beach to get the tractor, bobtail over to Dallas to get the trailer then bring everything back home.

I could have sold the Pete half a dozen times by itself but then I was going to have just the trailer and nothing with which to pair it so, of course, I wouldn't sell the Pete alone.

As things always seem to work, however, I end up selling the trailer alone (which I never thought I'd be able to do) and then am left with the Pete. Again, as things always seem to work, everyone who had approached me on the Pete had found something else and I ended up taking a little while before a leasing company in Chicago put me onto an end user in Texas who came up and bought it.

Needless to say, while the whole thing didn't go exactly as planned, both ends sold and life goes on. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

KiotiJohn · Jul 23, 2004

Gary, the thread was actually "Updating my old trailer." 10/01/02
Gary Loading
Gary Loaded
John
EDIT: Oh, and here's the page where your post is:
Updating my old trailer (thread)

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 24, 2004

John,

I'm glad one of us knows what I've posted and when. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have to say your link for a picture of 'Gary Loaded' made me a bit nervous when I first read it. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif You can imagine my relief when I realized it was just a picture of my trailer loaded. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I think this may be a better picture of the trailer tilted with the Tahoe up in the air and the rear of the trailer on the ground being loaded with the front end of the second truck. Again, note how far back under the trailer bed the axles are relative to a more conventional tandem axle trailer.

KiotiJohn · Jul 24, 2004

( I'm glad one of us knows what I've posted and when. )
You have no idea how much time it took me to find that post! I finally found it using Peterbilt in the search and oddly enough, the picture post didn't actually come up in the search, but I found it in the same thread. Looked to me as though both pictures were the same. Is there a suttle difference I can't see? It's a heck of an arrangement though.
John

johnday · Jul 24, 2004

Thanks John.

Gary, That certainly is a different setup. It's quite a unique setup. Thats a nice little Pete too. That thread isn't the one I was thinking of tho. It seemed to me that it was a low-pro type. Petes version of the International Low-pro's you see pulling 5th wheels around. My Dad has one with the 530 HT in it and Allison trans, all airride, crewcab and everything. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif