trailer brakes

[kenmac]

I have a 17 ft dual axle trailer that has electric brakes on 1 axle. I'am thinking of adding hyd. surge disc brakes to the other axle. Anyone tried this ?? Think it will work ?? I'am always having to adjust my brake shoes on the electric brakes. I won't have to adjust the hyd. disc. Materials will cost $600.00 to add the disc

 

[Skyco]

I've towed many trailers many miles with electric brakes and rarely have had to adjust them. Maybe you are overloading them with just one axle and adding the second axle as electric would fix that and be way cheaper.

IMO any tandem axle trailer should have brakes on BOTH axles. It is illegal to not do so some places and just foolish anywhere- again my opinion

 

[Egon]

Check and see if you can convert to electric disk brakes. Mixing the type of brake activators will only lead to problems.

I've put many miles on a tandem axle trailer with electric drum brakes. I've only had one problem with them and that required replacing all four as they had wore out.

I'm pretty sure Dexter has the electric disk brakes.

 

[Bird]

I've never heard of mixing the two types of brakes; i.e., electric and surge. That should be an interesting experiment, but I don't think I'd want to be the one spending the money to do it.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am with the others on just adding electrics to the second axle. I got a kit to do just this to my 16 trailer. It had brakes on one axle and I added them to the second for about $125 via EBAY.

Chris

 

[kenmac]

I've towed many trailers many miles with electric brakes and rarely have had to adjust them. Maybe you are overloading them with just one axle and adding the second axle as electric would fix that and be way cheaper.

IMO any tandem axle trailer should have brakes on BOTH axles. It is illegal to not do so some places and just foolish anywhere- again my opinion

Around here . most tandem trailers have single axle brakes. A friend of mine just bought a new tandem trailer & it only has 1 axle brakes. He said the trailer co. wanted xtra $ to add brakes the other axle.Said the guy told him that it is standard to install brakes only on 1 axle. The place where I checked on the parts to add hyd disc. said that he sold a customer 3 axles last week 2 with elect. brake set up & 1 hyd set up to go on a trailer he was building. That's what got me thinking about doing my trailer this way, except, I was going to use the disc set up.

 

[dqdave1]

Some states require ALL axles to have brakes on trailers; (PA is one I know of). I personally want all axles to have braking ability.

 

[kenmac]

Some states require ALL axles to have brakes on trailers; (PA is one I know of). I personally want all axles to have braking ability.

Well I'am gonna do something even if I add elect. brakes to the other axle. Just wondered if anyone had used elect. on 1 axle & hyd on the other. I like the disc. set up no adjustment at all just alot of $ Mabe I can buy the disc break set up for my wife's christmas present

 

[Rara Avis]

Check and see if you can convert to electric disk brakes. Mixing the type of brake activators will only lead to problems.

I've put many miles on a tandem axle trailer with electric drum brakes. I've only had one problem with them and that required replacing all four as they had wore out.

I'm pretty sure Dexter has the electric disk brakes.

Ditto on what Egon said...

Here's your reference for the Dexter Disk Brakes...

Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - 8K Disc Brake

 

[Skyco]

But those disc brakes are NOT electric. They are hydraulic.

They CAN be operated with an electrically driven hydraulic system but that is high dollar, in the neighborhood of $600+ just for the electric/hydraulic unit, and that is not counting the brakes themselves.
I suppose it might be nice but I've never had any trouble with electric drum brakes (own 5 trailers with electric drum brakes) save for repairing the crappy connections made to the wiring by many trailer manufacturers. Scotchloks in the weather don't hold up but hey the manufacturer saved a buck over doing it right

 

[kenmac]

Ditto on what Egon said...

Here's your reference for the Dexter Disk Brakes...

Dexter Axle - Trailer Axles and Running Gear Components - 8K Disc Brake

Those disc from dexter are what I 'am looking to add to my other axle , but like has been said thay are hyd.not electric. I haven't seen electric disc brakes

 

[Rara Avis]

Those disc from dexter are what I 'am looking to add to my other axle , but like has been said thay are hyd.not electric. I haven't seen electric disc brakes

Here are the ACTUATORS...

Trailer Parts Superstore - Recreational & Commercial Trailer Parts Dealer Since 1981

 

[john_bud]

Whoa! Stop and think about how surge brakes and electric brakes work for a minute before you go off and spend your $$.

Electric brakes get a signal from the brake controller and apply a variable amount of current to the electro magnets. The amount of current, the rate of current application and the delay from getting the initiation signal (brake light) is adjustable. The amount of current is also variable based on the rate of decelleration.

Surge brakes have a sliding actuator in the coupler that moves relative to the trailer. When the truck slows, the trailer pushes forward and actuates the hydraulics. This action is usually fast.

Think for a minute, you hit the brakes, the trailer slides forward and applies the surge brakes, then the electric brakes come on. The trailer slows more and the surge brakes go off. The electrics can't keep slowing you alone and the trailer slides forward -> applying the surge brakes again. My guess is that the trailer would be bucking like a bronc and the tires would be alternately locked up and doing next to nothing. The trailer wouldn't give you a smooth controlled stop and the electrics will probably wear fast, still.

Either add a second set of electrics (cheap) or add a full set of hydraulics. But, in my opinion, don't mix and match.


Could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

jb

 

[machmeter62]

I have a 17 ft dual axle trailer that has electric brakes on 1 axle. I'am thinking of adding hyd. surge disc brakes to the other axle. Anyone tried this ?? Think it will work ?? I'am always having to adjust my brake shoes on the electric brakes. I won't have to adjust the hyd. disc. Materials will cost $600.00 to add the disc

The disadvantages of surge brakes. I have a tandem axle with disc/surge brakes on both axles. A condition sometimes where they are too sensitive, is an incline where the trailer is slightly pushing the vehicle, that causes the surge brakes to apply minimum braking; over several miles or more! I had this problem returning from a boating trip, and when I unhooked the trailer I noticed the hubs and tires wet with grease from extended braking action? I assume this is the problem, but haven't checked the surge cylinder for proper operation either? The trailer wasn't overloaded, and there is no adjustments that I am aware of, for the amount of braking of the trailer?

 

[SnowRidge]

Whoa! Stop and think about how surge brakes and electric brakes work for a minute before you go off and spend your $$.

Electric brakes get a signal from the brake controller and apply a variable amount of current to the electro magnets. The amount of current, the rate of current application and the delay from getting the initiation signal (brake light) is adjustable. The amount of current is also variable based on the rate of decelleration.

Surge brakes have a sliding actuator in the coupler that moves relative to the trailer. When the truck slows, the trailer pushes forward and actuates the hydraulics. This action is usually fast.

Think for a minute, you hit the brakes, the trailer slides forward and applies the surge brakes, then the electric brakes come on. The trailer slows more and the surge brakes go off. The electrics can't keep slowing you alone and the trailer slides forward -> applying the surge brakes again. My guess is that the trailer would be bucking like a bronc and the tires would be alternately locked up and doing next to nothing. The trailer wouldn't give you a smooth controlled stop and the electrics will probably wear fast, still.

Either add a second set of electrics (cheap) or add a full set of hydraulics. But, in my opinion, don't mix and match.


Could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

jb

I think that could or would happen, depending on the controller setting. However, if the controller was a Prodigy, or one like it, with the boost feature enabled, the scenario would be different.

The boost feature applies the brakes upon brake light activation, which will cause the trailer brakes to lead the vehicle brakes. Properly adjusted, the trailer would brake primarily on the electric axle. The surge axle would only brake in heavy braking situations.

I'm not saying this is a good idea, but I think it could be adjusted to be workable, though I wouldn't do it myself.

 

[john_bud]

Snowridge,

You may be right and it would be an "interesting" thing to do, but the chances of it working smoothly without a lot of fiddle diddling around are pretty slim. Also, if you have the controller set to actuate early (boost) the electric brakes would wear out even faster. Brake wear was his inital complaint, so that would take away from his solution even if it worked smoothly.

I think we both agree - this ain't the optimum solution !

jb

 

[SnowRidge]

John, in normal use, Boost doesn't cause any added brake wear. It just causes the trailer brakes to be lightly applied just slightly ahead of the vehicle brakes. This helps smooth braking considerably, in my experience.

However, people who can't keep their cotton pickin' foot of the brake pedal when it doesn't need to be there shouldn't use it.

 

[Lynkage]

I would as some others have said just put electric on the second axle and be done with it. Having elec over hyd just adds another component to mess with. elec brakes are very reliable or they would not be still using them. My 10 ton heavy equipment hauler has tandem Dexter duals with elec brakes and they work very well. I would save your money for more implements.
JMO

 

[Renze]

Surge brakes have a sliding actuator in the coupler that moves relative to the trailer. When the truck slows, the trailer pushes forward and actuates the hydraulics. This action is usually fast.

Think for a minute, you hit the brakes, the trailer slides forward and applies the surge brakes, then the electric brakes come on. The trailer slows more and the surge brakes go off. The electrics can't keep slowing you alone and the trailer slides forward -> applying the surge brakes again. My guess is that the trailer would be bucking like a bronc and the tires would be alternately locked up and doing next to nothing. The trailer wouldn't give you a smooth controlled stop and the electrics will probably wear fast, still.

Normally an overrun coupler head for a surge brake has a shock absorber to make it work smooth.

Hydraulic surge brakes are quite expensive, over here in Holland. However they are far more reliable than cable operated surge brakes, or electric brakes. In Holland, electric brakes are allowed but not accepted by the motoring public.


But i agree, its either full electric, or full surge brakes. hydraulic surge brakes AND electric brakes on the same trailer are a funny cocktail which i wouldnt bet my money on.

 

[kenmac]

I think that could or would happen, depending on the controller setting. However, if the controller was a Prodigy, or one like it, with the boost feature enabled, the scenario would be different.

The boost feature applies the brakes upon brake light activation, which will cause the trailer brakes to lead the vehicle brakes. Properly adjusted, the trailer would brake primarily on the electric axle. The surge axle would only brake in heavy braking situations.

I'm not saying this is a good idea, but I think it could be adjusted to be workable, though I wouldn't do it myself.

My current controller has a slide to adjust gain . More gain more braking . Lower gain less braking . I probably could adjust the gain so the 2 could work together. Or , less electric braking ( less gain) until need more braking power then more gain. I've got to buy these as a christmas gift for my wife so I can see how it will work out