Tractor weights. Is this really significant?

[sld]

Within reason, I would much rather have my tires spin when under a heavy load. They are the "fuse" of the driveline.

If you have too much slippage try another technique or get a bigger machine. I would rather deal with a little slippage than a driveline failure. Most manuals I've seen will list how much weight can be added to the front or back of the tractor. Exceed that at your own risk.

 

[art]

Within reason, I would much rather have my tires spin when under a heavy load. They are the "fuse" of the driveline.

If you have too much slippage try another technique or get a bigger machine. I would rather deal with a little slippage than a driveline failure. Most manuals I've seen will list how much weight can be added to the front or back of the tractor. Exceed that at your own risk.

Thank You! The tires are cheap compared to a mechanical failure or the extra fuel that is needed to do one job that only equates to less then ten percent of the total life of a machine.

 

[art]

I know that some Kubota dealers like to talk about high grade metals that allow light construction but that is most likely bunk. Korean and Indian steel companies lead the world in steel production these days so I find it hard to believe the myths about "pot metal" used by Kubotas competitors.

I feel this inference is about what I've said so here goes! We work on many makes of equipment not just Case-IH, Gehl, Kubota and Cub Cadet. The types of failures we see in engines, and chasssis I could pick on some of our own manufacturers for some parts of their lines as well but some tractors are just using twenty plus year old technology because they can get by with it. It worked then so why not now? Not only with their designs but with the materials they build the machines with. Yes they can build cheaper that way which normally equates to them being able to sell for less unless they spent to much money trying to make them look like the latest and the greatest with the hood and fenders being in style and hopefully making them sellable.

We have one in our yard now that is three years old and 850 hours on it, old design new sheet metal, the engine reminds me of how a Belarus sounded when they were built twenty plus years ago. I was shocked at the noise levels of the engine and glad that we have nothing in our line-up that sounds like it.

Do these tractors stilll do a job? Yes they can, chances are not for as long, not as well and the return on the investment is lower.

Working in the ag industry as well as with compacts opens many avenues that the typical purchaser of a compact tractor would never think about as far as weight. The typical compact tractor dealer that is not knowledgeable with ag tractors wouldn't know! If a compact tractor is bought with the sole use of digging then go heavy and big and I'd recommend the Kubota industrial line of compacts for the hydraulics, but the majority of the customers we have coming through the doors will only be using their compact for digging less then twenty percent of the time they are in the seat.

Any way you look at it there are differences of quality, you may try and ignore it and if that fits for your life thats fine!

 

[dex3361]

Within reason, I would much rather have my tires spin when under a heavy load. They are the "fuse" of the driveline.

If you have too much slippage try another technique or get a bigger machine. I would rather deal with a little slippage than a driveline failure. Most manuals I've seen will list how much weight can be added to the front or back of the tractor. Exceed that at your own risk.

I would have to agree. It is smart to design in safe limit indications and weight limits. I have found that with the 3PH maxed out and the rear tires loaded that the FEL LA703A loaded with wet heavy soil it is all you can safely work with. If you are operating in this zone and constantly tryng to stretch farther(Red Zone) you probably need to move up in machine size. look at what the rear #PH max implement weight is and try it out. Most modern tractors with their design matched loaders operating at spec are well matched. You can get into failure issues if you operate in the red zone all of the time.

 

[Opti-Mist]

Within reason, I would much rather have my tires spin when under a heavy load. They are the "fuse" of the driveline.

If you have too much slippage try another technique or get a bigger machine. I would rather deal with a little slippage than a driveline failure. Most manuals I've seen will list how much weight can be added to the front or back of the tractor. Exceed that at your own risk.

Spot on. The ideal balance between tractive force and load results in 15% slippage. This I recall from a Firestone engineer discussing tire design considerations, or as he called them "Pressure Vessels".

 

[streamin]

I have only owned 2 tractors and both had the tires filled so I don't know what difference it makes.I have a #900lb boxblade on the rear and it does make a huge difference when using the loader. Both had R-4's and I DO regret not getting the r-1's.The R-4's simply load up too much in mud.

 

[texasjohn]

Messick has already given my opinion...

Load balance is more important than total weight.

You can always add weight as needed... don't need to carry around with you all the time.

That said, I do have fluid filled rear tires, air in front tires, fill FEL bucket full when using a pin pull dirt bucket/land plane which requires max traction, and keep box blade on 3ph with about another 500 lbs on it when doing lots of FEL full bucket scoop, lift and carry. Always have round bale on rear fork before picking up bale with front spike.

Load balance is more important than total vehicle weight.

 

[savedbyzero]

Filling your tires should not in any way cause them to loose their flex. You likely have too much pressure it the tire or too much water and no air pocket left to absorb the bump. Loosen the valve stem, drain out any water above the valve core with it at TDC and only put about 7-10 pounds of air pressure in the tire.

It was my understanding that when you load a tire the water line should not be above the axle centerline....wrong or right ?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

It was my understanding that when you load a tire the water line should not be above the axle centerline....wrong or right ?

I think that the usual thing is to fill to the top of the rim. Put the valve stem at 12 o'clock and fill until liquid runs out the stem. Install valve stem and air up as needed. My Mahindra Owners Manual says to fill up to 80%.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Within reason, I would much rather have my tires spin when under a heavy load. They are the "fuse" of the driveline.

If you have too much slippage try another technique or get a bigger machine. I would rather deal with a little slippage than a driveline failure. Most manuals I've seen will list how much weight can be added to the front or back of the tractor. Exceed that at your own risk.

A tractor that will not spin all 4 of its tires on good ground with loaded R1s is weak in the engine. One that is in any kind of mechanical danger doing this is just plain weak.
larry

 

[texasjohn]

Fill to top of rim, leaving room for air.. needed for pressure and sidewall flex.

For 95% of us, traction is a moot point, 95% of the time.

It really matters when plowing very large acreage for hours on end.... where a small slippage is desired (maybe 15%) and R1's (loose field dirt) is the right answer. Here it translates into fuel efficiency versus dirt engagement efficiency versus acres per hour. A proper balance between RPM'S, speed, weight balance/distribution/ traction translates into optimal field work. How many of us do this, in reality.

Mostly, we use our tractors as a utility vehicle, doing lots of short term chores of very diverse kinds.

For FEL work, most important is 4WD+toothbar for digging into a pile of material and proper rear weighting (filled wheels and/or rear weight) for moving the material in a FEL. Rear traction will be OK if this is done, either R1 or R4 tires.

IMHO, R1's will dig a deeper rut and fill up with mud and spin just as soon as R4's. Difference is depth of rut.... result is still a spinning tire.

Rear wheel spin is best avoided by proper RPM'S and locking both wheels (operator action) when spin is likely as determined by experience.

I recently assisted a neighbor in cleaning out his dirt tank, prior to recent rains. It was slick mud, very slick, but mostly a firm foundation. I'd get a full FEL load, lock rear wheels as I carefully backed up the slick incline out of the tank, seeking to avoid wheel spin. Mostly this would work. Loaded rear wheels, 1000 lbs on 3ph via box blade/weights, 4WD.

When slippage did occur, it was over... I had to reenter the tank, reverse, and come backwards at speed to get past the slick point. Then, I'd put some drier (relatively) mud on the slick point and all would be good for about another 10 trips, then repeat. I have R4's, don't believe R1's would have been any different.

My point is that for best traction you need, IMHO in this order:
4WD
proper RPM's/horsepower...
loaded tires
proper 3ph weight
lock rear wheels together
R4's or R1's

Actual tractor weight does not matter (within reason).

 

[IslandTractor]

I would generally use the commonly recommended 75-80% of tire volume but there is a case to be made for 50% if the main reason for loading the tires is to increase stability on hills. At 50%, all the extra weight is below the axle and would proportionally add the most stability. Adding more than that would make sense if you knew exactly where the center of gravity was (and you stayed below it) but 50% would be a very safe bet. That last 20-25% of tire volume is almost certainly above the center of gravity on a tractor and therefore adds ballast (good) but not extra stability.

 

[aczlan]

I would generally use the commonly recommended 75-80% of tire volume but there is a case to be made for 50% if the main reason for loading the tires is to increase stability on hills. At 50%, all the extra weight is below the axle and would proportionally add the most stability. Adding more than that would make sense if you knew exactly where the center of gravity was (and you stayed below it) but 50% would be a very safe bet. That last 20-25% of tire volume is almost certainly above the center of gravity on a tractor and therefore adds ballast (good) but not extra stability.

When using a Calcium Chloride (Salt) containing filler you MUST fill the tire to above the top of the rim, this is to keep the rim from rusting out (when under water the salt will not promote corrosion the way that it will when exposed to air). If you fill with beet juice, WWF or something similarly non-corrosive this is not an issue.

Aaron Z

 

[IslandTractor]

When using a Calcium Chloride (Salt) containing filler you MUST fill the tire to above the top of the rim, this is to keep the rim from rusting out (when under water the salt will not promote corrosion the way that it will when exposed to air). If you fill with beet juice, WWF or something similarly non-corrosive this is not an issue.

Aaron Z

You are probably right but in a sealed tire the amount of oxygen available for oxidation of metal would be limited so while some rust might occur it is unlikely to be progressive. That issue could also be avoided by using an inner tube but like you suggest, beet juice or WWF might be a better choice.

 

[sld]

A tractor that will not spin all 4 of its tires on good ground with loaded R1s is weak in the engine. One that is in any kind of mechanical danger doing this is just plain weak.
larry

I am much more worried about breaking something on the front axle than the rear if I were to overload the heck out of it.

The manual says not to fill or add wheel weights to the fronts so it is probably good advice.