Tractor Rollover Rescue

[txdon]

I would have NEVER NEVER thought I would spend my first retirement vacation doing this!

Going back to school. Fire training school.
http://www.teex.com/teex.cfm?pageid=teexresc&area=teex&storyid=562&templateid=23

However, this was Class was different, it had tractors and was very interesting and informative. This class along with other Firefighting and Rescue classes are given once a year by the Emergency Service Training Institute Texas Engineering Extension Service at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas. The class is 36 hours and last a week. About 2300 professional Firefighters (paid and volunteer) from all over Texas and beyond attended this week. The Ag-Rescue class is limited to 75 people and the class was full.

The tractor scenario we had was an older Farmall had turned over and was upside down on the side of a dam. The driver's leg under the rear wheel.

Using wood blocks (cribbing) we stabilized the tractor and lifted the rear tire by using a "cylinder lift" with air bags. See attachments below.

As you can tell by the last picture we learned all the places that farmers get hurt and trapped on their equipment. We also learned how to rescue a person from a grain storage bin.

So I guess you might be asking: "How was the wife entertained while I was having my tractor fun." Well, go to the last picture, see the smoke in the background, she was putting out a car fire in Firefighter Phase-One course.

 

[Egon]

Sounds like an interesting course.

Back in my employed days we had some firefighting schools and some on the job staged senario sesions involving hydrocarbon pressure vessels and there ancilillary equipment.

After one such sesion I made a comment about running the other way and watching from a distance as I was not provided with proper equipment or adaquate training. Needless to say my name was not "Mister Popular" with local supervisors and received some advice team spirit and duty. [ I was at the bottom of the food chain]

About three days later an edict came down from on high telling us we were not to engage in active firefighting but could provide assistance in the form of plant knowledge to the real fire fighters but we were to remain well in the background. [ Then I was really unpopular ]

 

[Bird]

Don, many years ago, I attended a state public safety communications officers conference in College Station and got a tour of A&M's firefighting school; very impressive.

And Egon, I'm much like you. Part of our training when I did the gas leakage surveys included demonstrating that we could put on a fire resistant suit in a certain amount of time. That was certainly a waste of time. My job was to find, classify, and document the leaks. If there was a fire, the extent of my participation would be long range observation.

 

[txdon]

Sounds like an interesting course.
After one such sesion I made a comment about running the other way and watching from a distance as I was not provided with proper equipment or adaquate training.

Eagon, Our VFD also does not have the equipment and manpower. Our training on the new equipment is limited. The Instructors were very helpful and understanding and they suggested different sources of knowledge and equipment, for example: (1.) The mechanics at the local JD dealership could help dismantle the equipment quickly, (2.)train with and use mutual aid with the surrounding VFDs that have the equipment needed, (3.) the farmer's neighbors might have knowledge of the equipment and have the tools needed or know someone that does.

They also pointed out that whenever you move equipment watch out for the other side of the equipment it will move and may make the matters worse. Use cribbing every inch of lift on both sides of the equipment, have EMS ready to transport when you relieve pressure from a crushing injury, they told us how to prepare and transport amputated parts, etc etc...

Some of the common injuries discussed in class were ones that I have seen here in the safety forum. As a tractor operator, this class really gets you to THINK about all the pinch points and things you do on and around the tractor that could go wrong or cause injury.

 

[jinman]

Don, I think I went to that "school" when I was 15. Only, I had no emergency equipment or cribbing and it was my dad under the tractor. I could not help but think about the time factor of rigging all that cribbing and airbag jacks to get someone out. My father's chest was crushed and he had a bruised heart.

I didn't know it at the time what the extent of his injuries were, but the tractor running and continuing to beat him was not a good thing. I shut off the engine and then pushed as hard as I could on one of the wheels. I was able to roll the tractor slightly and hold it while I screamed for help. Luckily a neighbor heard me and came running. While I held the tractor, he was able to carefully get my dad out.

So, perhaps we did the wrong thing, but it sure seemed right at the time. Can you estimate how long your practice rescue would take? I know you have to be careful for back and spine injuries, but if someone was having breathing difficulty or a heart attack, would you follow the same procedure?

 

[Bird]

I could not help but think about the time factor of rigging all that cribbing and airbag jacks to get someone out.

Jim, I've frequently felt the same way; not just with rescue efforts, but with emergency medical care in general. When I was a rookie cop, we carried little first aid kits in all the squad cars and we did the only first aid that was done. Ambulance service was provided by funeral homes and ambulance attendants did nothing but load'em up and haul'em in. That, admittedly, wasn't always the best, but it was sure the quickest.

But now we have EMTs and I've personally seen so many instances in which they "play doctor" for a half hour, accomplishing absolutely nothing, except prolonging the victim's pain before going on to the hospital. I know in some cases, they actually do "stabilize" victims and save lives, but I can't help but wonder if they don't frequently do more harm than good; just have to "play doctor" a long time to justify the fees they charge.

 

[Doc_Bob]

Hope I never need the services, but nice to see the training.
Bob

 

[txdon]

Can you estimate how long your practice rescue would take? I know you have to be careful for back and spine injuries, but if someone was having breathing difficulty or a heart attack, would you follow the same procedure?

Jim, all conditions and the victim must be assessed. There are no set rules. This set-up depending on the number of people present and their training would take about 10 minutes once on location with the equipment. Star-Flight from Austin will take about about 30 minutes to get here.

The rescue can be done with whatever you have to work with, just be careful not to hurt yourself or the victim more.

 

[Egon]

The courses always give one new insights on how to do things.

On site cases will vary and require an on site assement; the most critical of which is your own personal safety as all the courses will stress.

We all also had to have first aid courses. These courses all gave a lot of good information. Other than CPR and copious bleeding I always thought that a wait for the ambulance or helicopter was the best procedure. Fortunetly I was never in a situation where any of these decisions had to be made.

Although twice, from a isolated construction site, I drove several people 100 miles to the nearest hospital. Once was with an onsite ambulence and Doctor to be in attendance looking after a fellow with perontitis. Pouring rain and one flat tire. The othe time was with my own car and a young boy who had used an axe to cut off several fingers. Just a bandage and kept the hand elevated.

 

[silo36]

While I am not going to start a war of words, and thank God we all have the right to our own opinion; you may have a basis for your comments toward EMS and rescue, I find it offensive. It would take too long to explain all of the why's and what's of rescue and EMS, but I have litterally thousands of hours of training and 23 years experience in all aspects of Fire/EMS/Rescue/Hazmat.I may be killed at work tomorrow, (career firefighter/EMT) but I prefer to come home at the end of my shift instead of doing something stupid and furthermore, the last thing I want is to cause a patient further pain or discomfort. Believe me, the vast majority of us feel the same way. I probably won't even click on this thread again, so whatever you comment, just let it fly.But please, do not attempt to tell how wrong somebody does something till you have been trained as they have, and walked where they have walked. We care, probably more than you do.

 

[BamaRob]

jinman,

I'm currently a First Responder at my place of employment. In any emergency situation, the first thing you are instructed to check for are the "ABC's" (Airway, Breathing, Circulation). Check first to make sure the airway is not obstructed, then check to make sure they are breathing, then check for circulation. So, yes, the plan of action may be different if there is breathing difficulty or heart attack/damage. The possiblility of neck or spinal injury takes a back seat when the victim cannot breath or their circulation is being rendered useless by crushing weight. If they're breathing OK and have no apparant circulation problems, then proper care should be taken to minimize the risk of neck or spinal injury when moving them.

In the case of your father's situation, I would have likely done the same as you and your neighbor. Even though there was risk of neck/spine injury in moving him, there would have certainly been a higher risk of suffocation or heart failure had you not gotten him out from underneath the weight of the tractor.

BR

 

[scott_vt]

Don, I think I went to that "school" when I was 15. Only, I had no emergency equipment or cribbing and it was my dad under the tractor. I could not help but think about the time factor of rigging all that cribbing and airbag jacks to get someone out. My father's chest was crushed and he had a bruised heart.

I didn't know it at the time what the extent of his injuries were, but the tractor running and continuing to beat him was not a good thing. I shut off the engine and then pushed as hard as I could on one of the wheels. I was able to roll the tractor slightly and hold it while I screamed for help. Luckily a neighbor heard me and came running. While I held the tractor, he was able to carefully get my dad out.

So, perhaps we did the wrong thing, but it sure seemed right at the time. Can you estimate how long your practice rescue would take? I know you have to be careful for back and spine injuries, but if someone was having breathing difficulty or a heart attack, would you follow the same procedure?

Hi Jim,
This is an excellent thread and one that I can relate to. I have never taken that particular course but have taken many rescue courses along with airbag rescue techniques. I have been a volunteer almost 25 years and seen a lot of nasty accidents IMO, you were a boy trying to save your Dad. I think you got lucky, only because that tractor could have rolled back on your Dad, and probablly killing him. In a rural enviroment you sometime have to take calculated chances. You took one and won! There are many that are not so fortunate !

Normally we use the Golden Hour Rule. Meaning that from the time the call goes in to the dispatch, until the victim is in the hospital, you have about 60 mins total before shock seriously hampers the victims chances of survival. We usually make it or are very close on the more difficult rescues.

All we can do is are BEST!

 

[Gator6x4]

"play doctor" for a half hour, accomplishing absolutely nothing, except prolonging the victim's pain before going on to the hospital.

Gone are the "Snatch-Grab-Run" days. Injury stabilization at the scene in my opinion is the reason injury deaths have declined. The majority of EMT's in large urban areas are in direct radio contact with the local Trauma Center when they are at an incident location. Most times it is the Doctor in the Trauma Center who make the decision to transport by land or air. I commend the individuals who in most instances take their own time (No Pay)to learn proper first aid procedures so they can better assist us when needed. I like Bird can remember the days when ambulance service was provided by a local Funeral Home and first aid was provided by a Police Officer, who received first aid training in the military several years ago. The joke at that time was, the Funeral Home did it to obtain clients. Most Emergency Personnel today will utilize tools, equipment, brute force manpower or what is at hand to extract someone. I don't think they would wait for equipment when they could improvise and accomplish the same task. At least I have never seen them stand by and wait while someone needed immediate care. The knowledge of how to properly extridate an injured person from an incident is very important. Having somone on scene with this background, training and expertise in an emergency situation is in my opinion invaluable. The first and primary responsbility of First Responders is, "Prevent The Situation From Getting Worse." I have seen EMT's enter non-stablized locations, accident scenes, industrial accidents, etc. to render first aid.

I think First Aid Training should be required prior to license issuance for all "Rubber Neckers". They are going to stop, park and gawk and prevent First Responders from reaching an incident scene. It can take a very long time for emergency personnel to reach you if you are involved in a serious incident on a heavily traveled interstate highway today.

 

[jinman]

Thanks Scotty and everyone for tolerating my questions. When I read Don's post and saw those pictures, a flood of detailed memories came back.

I should also point out that my father had ample to time to get off the tractor before it rolled and he was pinned. He knew it was out of control and could have shut it down or just jumped off since the tractor was not moving very fast. The front tires were off the ground from the overloaded dirt scoop in the rear. He tried to use differential braking to steer. The tractor wheeled around 180º and headed back into the ditch before it rolled. It was a very avoidable accident that he never fully recovered from.

The effect of most accidents goes far beyond the person involved. I surely agree that first responders are among the many people who put themselves at risk to rescue a victim. Unfortunately, nobody really thinks they will be the victim until it's too late to rationally consider all the options or consequences.

 

[trlong]

Not being trained, or working as a 1st responder, I've found this thread very useful. For those reading this without the benefit of serious training, I suggest that you contact your LEPC (Local Emergency Planning Committee), CERT (Community Ermergency Response Team/Training), or other organizations who may be able to provide you with such as the CERT Training Manual. I was just surfing during a particularly slow day and found that, through the Department of Public Safety's website, Emergency Management offers to send you Family and Local emergency planning and training materials (our tax dollars at work

Lots of good stuff in the CERT Manual, even if it is just a refresher for some 1st Aid course you may have taken years ago (and some things have changed recommended procedures).

RE: ABC's of an accident or "Incident Site", absolutely! However, ABC's are NOT the 1st on the list, for "Incident Control". 1st is to "assess and secure the site" (i.e. is the site safe or are more injuries going to be incurred if anyone enters, or stays in the area. That, ofcourse, is always the tough one to swallow as our 1st instinct is to rush in to help. 2nd, if possible, is to send some one else to contact 911.


I had a car rolled over on its side, facing me, one night, my lane on a 2 lane highway, pre-cell phone days. 1st impulse was to rush to the car to try to help. I put the flashers on, a safe distance back from the "scene", blocking the lane, where they could be seen by approaching vehicles. When I got out, my headlights showed the other car was leaking gas all over the road. Fortunately, I carried flares. I sent the guy with me, past the car to put one where oncoming cars could be warned and I headed back a ways to put another one out. By the time I started back to the tipped car, itself, there were 20 or so cars stopped with people all walking toward the gas leak. Several with lit cigarettes in hand. Oh boy, we got a party here! Too late to make a long story short. My point is that had I stopped and run up to save some badly injured person without trying to prevent more mayhem, there is no doubt more would have been injured before any one had a chance to help the victim. BTW: The "victim" was in a dead drunk sleep, completely uninjured.

Just my 2 cents and we know what that's worth these days.

Tom