Tractor "funicula" ?

[bcarwell]

I'm trying to get a little trailer full of tools, Quickrete, etc. down from a cliff to a river bank and back up to do some work around the river and avoid many trips lugging stuff up and down the steps. The cliff is about 80 feet up vertically from the bank and at about a 40 degree angle. The trailer and tools probably weigh 300 pounds max.

The question is how to power the lowering and pulling of the trailer. A wench appears to be too slow and doesn't have enough cable length and duty cycle and costs $$.

I don't have enough horizontal space to simply drive the tractor 80 feet away from the cliff and can't watch the progress of the trailer.

Any ideas ? One thing I'd thought of is to gear down my PTO by using my existing tractor's post hole digger and replacing the auger with a pole and some sort of pillow block at the bottom where the tip is. Or maybe extend the PHD pole out horizontally some way. Seems it should have about the right rpm and torque, but don't know about whether I'd trash the PHD gear box over time running other than vertical. And another problem is how to get the cable to wind 80 feet spread over the pole while winding and not all bunched up at one place.

Anybody ever had to do something like this and have a simple, inexpensive solution or some other way ? Safety I don't think is an issue- there are NO people riding the "funicula" or anywhere near it.

Lazy Bob

 

[bcarwell]

Oops, make that "winch", not "wench" Anway, duty cycle on both of them would no doubt be insufficient.

 

[BeezFun]

I'd use a heavy rope and something like a cable spool to wind it, your idea of powering off the PHD might work, or maybe just wind the rope around the auger shaft. That's not much weight, and the ground is supporting some of it, so unless it's really muddy and the trailer is going to dig in and get hung up I think a rope would be strong enough and much easier to work with.

 

[acme97]

How would you get the cable unwound and the trailer back down? Seems like you need something that will let you reverse the direction. I thought about spooling the cable around your rear tire of the tractor, but that would not be safe as the tractor would have to be off the ground. Plus that would put a lot of stress on the one side of the axle.

 

[rsewill]

If you have another vehicle with a trailer hitch you could use that as a place to connect a pulley to let you pull in a direction that gets you 80 feet. Then find a wench to watch as you lower the load.

 

[dusty3030]

Block and tackle plus a lot of rope.
Instead of a trailer, think something slick on the bottom that will slide and spread out the weight, like a heavy duty tarp bound up with rope to make a "bag".
Would that work? Be old school and cheap.
Could secure the uphill side the end of a boom pole or the end of the boom on your PHD. If you need to stop, there are plenty of places on the back of your tractor to tie off on. I assume the concrete would be going down and not coming back up so all you would have to pull up would be your tools.

 

[dusty3030]

If you have another vehicle with a trailer hitch you could use that as a place to connect a pulley to let you pull in a direction that gets you 80 feet. Then find a wench to watch as you lower the load.

That's a good idea too. Get a snatch block and 100 or so feet of appropriate cable.

 

[bcarwell]

Haven't tried it yet but I'm wondering if I disconnect PTO takeoff shaft from the posthole digger whether the auger shaft will then turn freely in the opposite-from-normal direction with a loaded trailer to unwind the cable while the trailer goes downhill such that I'd only need a brake for travel downhill. Then with the PTO shaft reconnected to the PHD I could use the tractor/PHD to pull the load back up the hill. Otherwise I guess you're right, I've got a problem unwinding the cable from the auger shaft...

I had thought about a pulley and driving parallel to the cliff line. But again, the downside is I would not be able to see the progress of the trailer up and down the hill.

I really don't want to manually pull ropes- that's a lot of rope to pull especially in 100 degree Texas summers...

I appreciate your suggestions and any others to come !

Bob

 

[acme97]

What about a rope pull hoist like this one? Slow going, but positive control and only dependent on length of cable.

Northern Industrial Wire Rope Pulling Hoist — 3.2-Ton Capacity | Hoists, Lifts + Cranes | Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[dusty3030]

So I take it not a one day project?
How many times / days do you think going up and down?
How many sacks of quickcrete?

And last but not least, do you have good access to the river that it might be easier to boat it in? Load up the boat with your stuff each day and put in the river at a ramp and boat it over? We do that a lot building duck blinds. Some times easier to float it than tote it, even if the float it route is a little longer.

 

[scgargoyle]

Many years ago I skiied at a place that used a tractor for a rope tow. They had bolted an empty wheel as a pulley on one of the rear wheels, and the rope went around it and back down the hill in a continuous loop. One wheel of the tractor was on the ground; the one with the pulley was up in the air so it could turn without moving the tractor. In your case, you could lower the rig by putting the tractor in reverse to change direction. Just make sure the tractor is firmly anchored so it can't move.

 

[powerpace]

I'm with rsewill on this one.

 

[MarkV]

I am having a hard time seeing a 2 wheel trailer with a cable attached to the tongue being controllable. Even in a straight drop it would seem that a rock or root could shift its direction pretty fast. Maybe I just don't understand the plan.

MarkV

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Many years ago I skiied at a place that used a tractor for a rope tow. They had bolted an empty wheel as a pulley on one of the rear wheels, and the rope went around it and back down the hill in a continuous loop. One wheel of the tractor was on the ground; the one with the pulley was up in the air so it could turn without moving the tractor. In your case, you could lower the rig by putting the tractor in reverse to change direction. Just make sure the tractor is firmly anchored so it can't move.

I have to side with Scargoyle. Anything else is going to be costly. A hydraulic winch is probably the best option, but I've priced them. You could probably rent a Chinook to fly your stuff in and out for the cost of a Hydraulic winch.

 

[dusty3030]

K5 Blazer, redneck spirit and a case of beer for courage and you could do it like this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etui5D3exEA]Extreme hill climbing in a V8 buggy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Western]

I'd be thinking a boat!! could use it later for fishing even

 

[bcarwell]

Nope, can't get access via river.
I was using Quickrete as an example. Planning on building a little dock, covered deck, etc., so the hauling will be many, many trips and continue over a year's time making it worthwhile to figure an easy way to haul stuff- especially materials downslope, with only tools coming back up. As for instability I was planning on welding up a little buggy with very wide wheels for stability and clearing two ruts or maybe railroad ties for tire guides which is very do-able as there are no rocks on the hillside. Not sure I want to be taking a tractor tie off and back on when I need the tractor. Unless I can unwind cable off my post hole digger shaft to go the other direction its seeming like a pulley and driving with a Gator may be the simplest, cheapest method. I suppose if I've tried it a few times with no glitches I don't need to have the little trailer in sight at all times- I could have wifey (or a wench as someone suggested) watch the ascents and descents and I'd know after the first few times where to start/stop. I still like using the PTO somehow though if I could gear it down with something and go two directions. Using the posthole digger's gearbox was just a quick idea since it seems to be geared down about right and I'd have plenty of power. Just not sure how to rig it so I can also unwind the cable. Maybe I could add a releasable shear pin and a brake on the cable for the unwinding direction to let the buggy down the hill....

 

[dusty3030]

Is there a decent sized tree at the bottom? Could rig up a sky line from top to bottom. ATV winch and bosun chair type setup.

 

[zzvyb6]

Get a couple of logs and make a decent raft on which to put the tools. Then get a couple of wenches to float it down the river to your site for you from a favorable launch site. When you are done, have them keep going and float it down to the next available landing site. Hope its not the Niagara river, though...

 

[Arkaybee]

The description below is one way it can be done and one that I have used.

Use a cat-head rig as in the attached picture/drawing.


Attach your "drum" (i.e. 8 inch dia. pipe) to the rear wheel of a vehicle (automobile or tractor)-- do not use a wheel rim which gives too much chance for binding of the rope and not allowing slipping of the rope on the crum which is critical. You will need a pipe or fulcrum or some-such device to smooth the transition from horizontal to vertical similar in concept to that shown in the attached picture. With the auto or tractor idling there will be sufficient power to accomplish the letting down or the lifting. I assume you will be letting the load slide on the side of the incline--much simpler that way.

A couple of buddies and I drilled water wells for each of us using such a rig with the pulley hung from a large timber across the top of two sections of scaffolding. The deepest well went about 90 feet.

With two or three wraps of a good hemp rope around the powered pipe on the rear wheel of the vehicle it is easy to operate. With an extra wrap or two we could hold the rope in our teeth and make it work. You just want to strictly avoid the rope wrapping on top of itself on the spinning drum or it may lock up and not release when you release the pull to let the load descend.

In your case you will let the rope take on the weight over the edge of the vertical slope and, with the rope already wrapped a couple of times around the drum, slowly release the tension on the rope and the load will descend down the slope. When the load reaches the bottom you will release the tension completely and let the rope slide off the drum. When you want to lift the load back up just wrap the appropriate number of wraps around the drum and tension the rope by pulling on the free end and keep pulling and coiling the rope off to the side until the load reaches the top of the incline and with a helper secure the load; or if the fulcrum/rope slide/pulley (on a tripod e.g.) is built properly you might not need a helper.

HTH

Arkaybee