Tractor Died While Blowing Snow!

[ruffdog]

How much does the winter fuel blend that a service station has vary as a function of temperature? I was always under the impression there were essentially summer, and winter (i.e., only two). Are there more?

Blending with #1 will be shown as a ratio....60/40 is 60% #2 to 40% #1. More #1 will be used as the temps drop. Around here, 50/50 is common in January. For every 10% of #1 used, the cloud point drops 3 deg F.

Then there is fuel treatment which is a chemical anti gel you can add. Those work best when mixed in the fuel when the temps are above 32deg F.

In the old days, the service station would have a sample jar of fuel sitting on the pump so you could trust its anti gel level. Now, you can only ask the kid behind the counter.....grrr.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I haven’t added anything to my diesel fuel before. We all have different definitions of cold. It has been -26* F here already for a couple days and we will go to -40*f or lower multiple times this winter. Last winter was a bit colder than normal and we didn’t get above 0 for about 30 days and above freezing for 65 days. My Kubota doesn’t have a block heater and will start on 3 cycles of the glow plugs down to above -25*F. It is an open cab and blowing snow in -20 in the wind can be chilly and challenging as the controls of the tractor freeze and become very difficult to use…. This year is my first with a cab and block heater to blow snow, so much better! But the loader froze solid from moving last time and had to feel like I was breaking it to get it to move. But only -10*f this morning so the bomb cyclone warmed us up with about 8” of snow.

 

[RSR]

Blending with #1 will be shown as a ratio....60/40 is 60% #2 to 40% #1. More #1 will be used as the temps drop. Around here, 50/50 is common in January. For every 10% of #1 used, the cloud point drops 3 deg F.

Then there is fuel treatment which is a chemical anti gel you can add. Those work best when mixed in the fuel when the temps are above 32deg F.

In the old days, the service station would have a sample jar of fuel sitting on the pump so you could trust its anti gel level. Now, you can only ask the kid behind the counter.....grrr.

Thanks, that's helpful. I didn't realize the blends changed throughout the year.

 

[hayden]

Whenever I get fuel, no matter what time of year, I always treat it with an anti-gel additive. Not all aditives are anti-gel, so read the label carefully. Since all fuel is always treated, I never have to worry about untreated summer fuel still being in the tractor when it gets cold, or forgetting to add treatment, or all the other ways that I could screw it up. When the delivery truck comes to fill my bulk tank, I dump in the treatment then and there.

 

[Bobrown14]

Gelled fuel is my bet. Try adding in a little #1 diesel (kerosene) to thin it down a little bit. I've been worried about that same thing. I bought some #2 diesel at a Mobil station - had 2nd thoughts since it was a fuel stop out in the country not on the beaten path. I bought the diesel before the winter blends are available.

We haven't gotten enough snow for me to need to plow yet since I aint going anywhere anyways in blizzard conditions. But I did move my tractor out of the tractor barn since its VERY windy tractor barn under the forest canopy didn't want to get into trees on the tractor or across the drive. Anywho so I started up the tractor and right away noticed a much stronger smell of diesel / sulfur. I haven't done any pushing yet - doubt I'll need to unless the snow starts piling up but the winds are blowing it away and into the tree line.

I drove the tractor down our driveway 1/2 mile round trip just to be sure it will run ok. No problems but still stronger smell of diesel and maybe a little down on power which makes me worry some. I add in some diesel additive when I filled the tank the last time to be sure I'm not getting any gel situation. I think that diesel is low grade tho.... supposed to be low sulfur but I have my doubts now.

It's back to buying diesel at the AT truck stop along the interstate - at least I know that fuel will be fresh and good quality since itsa truck stop.


Here's a good read on kerosene and diesel mix - yeah diesel will gel in the fuel filter - its cold enough for that to happen this weekend fer sure.

Kerosene vs Winter Fuel Additives – The Fuel Ox


Edit: we are in upstate NY - its freaking arctic conditions. 50mph wind blowing snow temps at -20C and wind chill -50C - yeah even the dogs are NOT good with it.

 

[ruffdog]

Gelled fuel is my bet.


Here's a good read on kerosene and diesel mix - yeah diesel will gel in the fuel filter - its cold enough for that to happen this weekend fer sure.

Kerosene vs Winter Fuel Additives – The Fuel Ox

Yes, a very good read on fuel basics. THNXS

 

[Avenger]

Avenger he was just ribbing you a bit.

if you look closely at your tachometer I would bet it is 15 and then there is a
X 100 so 1500 RPM.
15 k is 15000
K is 1000 as a multiplier.
15000 RPM is about what some model airplane 2 stroke glow plug engines run at.
Don't feel bad reminds me of when I posted about welding and used AU as the metal element when I was actually thinking of Aluminum

ps. Speaking of tachs, I cranked up the Rhino to 1900 (PTO RPM) to really move some snow with the new inverted blower, and in this cold it actually Broke the tach needle off inside the meter case. The original cable set up a mean resonance and well I killed my tach.

Yeah, I just got that! I was tired. Thanks for pointing it out. HAHA!!

 

[5030]

You sure your air filter isn't clogged with snow dust????

 

[Hilbilly]

I shouldn't have read this thread yesterday. Right after reading it I went out and started my tractor so I could blow the 7" or 8" of snow we got the night before. All was fine while it was idling and then I pulled the tractor out of the shelter and got about 20' before the problem started. Engine slowed down and revved up and then died. I pulled the water filter and the fuel filter (Spin on) and could see lumps of white stuff in the water separator. Crap! Gelled fuel. I ran into town to see if I could find some Diesel 911 and every place was sold out. I found some stuff called Melt Down that is supposed to do the same thing. I got the tractor started using the procedure on the label and it ran for about 20 minutes then died again. That's when I gave up last night. This morning I pulled the filter and water separator and the separator is full of gelled fuel. Worse than yesterday. I now have tarps and blankets over the hood and 2 electric heaters running under the tractor. The fuel filter and water seperator are in the heated shop to see if the fuel will reliquify. I don't have another filter and everything is closed. I'm going to give it one more try with the Melt Down and if that doesn't work I will have to figure out some way to get the tractor into the shop.

 

[spruce Deere]

Save some of that melt down for filling the fuel filter when you put it back on.

Ironically, my younger brother jelled-up on of our ol'mans tractors Thursday. I was thankfull at the time, cause I was busy wrangling out a x-mas tree with the grandson and really did not want to fiddle with something he is toltally capable of doing himself, O'man is out of town for x-mas so guess who gets to fiddle with a jelled up new holland cause it has not quit snowing since....

 

[LouNY]

I shouldn't have read this thread yesterday. Right after reading it I went out and started my tractor so I could blow the 7" or 8" of snow we got the night before. All was fine while it was idling and then I pulled the tractor out of the shelter and got about 20' before the problem started. Engine slowed down and revved up and then died. I pulled the water filter and the fuel filter (Spin on) and could see lumps of white stuff in the water separator. Crap! Gelled fuel. I ran into town to see if I could find some Diesel 911 and every place was sold out. I found some stuff called Melt Down that is supposed to do the same thing. I got the tractor started using the procedure on the label and it ran for about 20 minutes then died again. That's when I gave up last night. This morning I pulled the filter and water separator and the separator is full of gelled fuel. Worse than yesterday. I now have tarps and blankets over the hood and 2 electric heaters running under the tractor. The fuel filter and water seperator are in the heated shop to see if the fuel will reliquify. I don't have another filter and everything is closed. I'm going to give it one more try with the Melt Down and if that doesn't work I will have to figure out some way to get the tractor into the shop.

gasoline will dissolve much of the paraffin, often the fuel will have to get above 45F for the paraffin to go back in to suspension in the fuel.

 

[Hilbilly]

Edit: in response to Spruce Deere.

Yup, the instructions say to use a 50/50 mix of diesel and Melt Down in the fuel filter. I used that in the filter and the water separator plus I put the rest of the bottle in the fuel. I got it fired up and immediately ran it into the shop to get warmed up. Put an electric heater on each of the fuel tanks and let them running until the tanks were well above freezing. Then ran it out of the shop and did some plowing before attempting a run down the driveway.

All is good and I got the snow removal finished.

Life is good now.

 

[Hilbilly]

gasoline will dissolve much of the paraffin, often the fuel will have to get above 45F for the paraffin to go back in to suspension in the fuel.

Thanks for the info about the temps required to reliquify the paraffin. While heating the fuel tanks I would keep checking the temps with an IR thermometer. When the the lowest reading I was getting was about 50F, I went for it, not knowing if that was the magic temp or not. Got lucky I guess. Now I know and hopefully never have to use that info in the future.

A lesson well learned!

 

[Bobrown14]

Ironically, today I had the same problem luck had it that I was almost finished plowing. Got the F11 and a F04 error codes. I'm pretty sure its gelled fuel.

Its cold AF here - even tho I added fuel treatment - Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement Antigel + Cetane Boost but since below 0F I should have doubled the amount I only used 1 oz shot glass for about 5 gallons -- should have used more. This sucks at least no more snow until a warm up.

I'm thinking of transferring the fuel in the tank out into another can and get some fresh new winterized diesel, clean filters and drain them.

Symptoms were tractor sorta just died and stalled. Turned it off then started back up was ok then started throwing codes and going into limp mode.

Got a few decent engine knocks to go with the rough running. Before I parked it in a place not blocking the drive.

I hope is just the crappy diesel.

 

[spruce Deere]

I bet it's just the diesel bobrown14.

Far as the fuel in the tank goes, I would just top it off with fresh fuel with the below zero dose of power service white bottle for 12 gallons, the capacity of the LS fuel tank.

 

[Avenger]

I went out again today to blow about 3 inches of new snow at 19F. Tractor ran just fine, no issues. Think the problem is solved!!

Merry Christmas!!

 

[Hilbilly]

Ironically, today I had the same problem luck had it that I was almost finished plowing. Got the F11 and a F04 error codes. I'm pretty sure its gelled fuel.

Its cold AF here - even tho I added fuel treatment - Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement Antigel + Cetane Boost but since below 0F I should have doubled the amount I only used 1 oz shot glass for about 5 gallons -- should have used more. This sucks at least no more snow until a warm up.

I'm thinking of transferring the fuel in the tank out into another can and get some fresh new winterized diesel, clean filters and drain them.

Symptoms were tractor sorta just died and stalled. Turned it off then started back up was ok then started throwing codes and going into limp mode.

Got a few decent engine knocks to go with the rough running. Before I parked it in a place not blocking the drive.

I hope is just the crappy diesel.

My experience over the last 2 days suggests that you have gelled fuel and the fix is not easy if you can't get the tractor into a warm place. My tractor ran fine with a mix of summer fuel and winter fuel with temps around -5F but it didn't like -30F. That caused all the problems I've been dealing with over the last 2 days. I sure hope your fix will be easier since the temps aren't as low. However if you can't get the tractor into a warm place I think the only way to get it running, without the outside temps getting warm enough, is to use some kind of fuel additive. I can tell you from my experience that simply adding more Power Service Fuel treatment didn't do the trick. So I found a product called Melt Down that is specifically made for reliquifing gelled diesel and it still took a couple of tries to get it working. There is another product that is recommended for this application, called Diesel 911 and that may be better. In any case my experience suggests that once the fuel is gelled it will be gelled everywhere in the fuel system. So you can treat the fuel in the fuel filter, the water separator and the fuel tank but you cannot treat the fuel in the lines between those locations unless you can figure out where those lines are and use a heat gun or hair drier to get them warmed up. If not, then you may need to do 2 cycles of treatment with a special fuel additive, made for fuel that is already gelled. The first cycle runs the treated fuel in the filter and the water separator plus pulls the fuel from the fuel tank, to hopefully clear the gelled fuel in the lines. But if that doesn't work, pull the filter and separator, reheat and refuel, then run again. That worked for me.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

 

[RjCorazza]

Glad everyone got their fuel issues resolved.
I use up my summer fuel and begin treating the fuel in November regardless. My temps aren't anywhere near as cold as being discussed here, with positive teens being the norm. We recently went down to 3 deg f, which is the coldest that I can remember.

Anyway, lately I have been thinking about Tier4 machines that have fuel coolers... Anyone have any thoughts on this? It would seem to me that for very cold climates the fuel cooler could be a liability.

 

[groundcover]

Fuel heaters are your friend on days like that ! Both my diesel pickups had them and never jelled up but tractor and chipper waxed up hard.

That was treated with Power service too !
I talked to the pump service guy at the station and he said he had been changing filters all day.
Friend of mine works at another oil company and said they run dozens of trucks and equipment with their fuel and never have a problem. Switched to them and Howe's and haven had an issue since.

 

[shooterdon]

First, glad to hear the issue was gelled fuel and not something expensive.

Second, I smiled remembering all the guys telling us what a waste of money additives are.

I use anti-gel, biocide, and another additive for water in the fuel. I do not care about the few dollars of insurance. I do not put a lot of hours on the tractor but when I need it, I need it. 75-100 gallons of fuel a year is not that expensive to treat.

Living in a remote area of northern MI, it is silly not to be prepared for the worst.