Tractor and Excavator OR Tractor with backhoe...

[couchsachraga]

20 20,

I'm sure I would use it more than I think I would - I've found that to be the case the the tractor already, especially the grapple rake. I use it more than the front bucket by far.

At this point I'm planning on a 4520 or similar, and if my backhoe sells I'll likely get the backhoe to fit the tractor I get - but with the plan of renting a mini-ex if I need one for a few projects and potentially purchasing a used machine in a few years if the projects pile up.

One of my challenges (that I know a few here can identify with) is where most of the work gets done is an hour from where I live, so I can't just work on a few projects in the evening like I used to when I lived up near there.

Thank you all for your thoughts - I greatly appreciate it and it has indeed helped me solidify my plans.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

4520 with home built landplane

Steve,

I'm diggin' your homebuilt landplane... Is there a thread about that build?

Thanks,
David

 

[davygp38]

This is a good thread. My plan is to keep my tractor (L4400,) but trade in the Back hoe, and sub-frame (BH 90.) I am real hot for the KX 121. Thanks to this thread, I feel much more confident in what I want to do. I almost considered going with the M59, But I would rather have a dedicated tractor, for loader, and three point work, and a 5 ton Mini ex for digging, logging ex-cetera.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

These sections seem to be the deciding factors in my opinion

I have use for a backhoe still, but need to be able to get in to some tighter spots, and over some softer areas where my 9 ton 2wd machine just isn't going to go, either size wise or without making a royal mess... and potentially needing a friend with a dozer to pull me out!...
What gives me pause is I'm used to a backhoe with 8k pounds of breakout force... not 2k.... Stumps will undoubtably take longer, but it will be rare it's a big stump so I'm not that concerned. ...
Property wise it's 1+ mile of road plus several miles of ski / snowmobile trails, 200+ acres (mostly woods, but 5+ acres of field with another 10 of beaver swamp (or my own personal mosquito breeding ground as I like to call it)) in the Adirondacks up upstate NY. Lots of rocks, some ledge, hills, etc....

I'd say you're looking for a excavator, with the wide "flotation" tracks for traversing boggy areas. And you need something with enough power to break things out. Yeah, it's not going to move fast; but that's why you preposition equipment before a job.

 

[Dadof3]

For productivity, if you have the $$$ and the work, go for the mini-ex and loader.

 

[Martian]

Both would definitely be the most productive. Both would definitely cost the most. If you can afford it I would see it as a no brainier but you could get by with a TLB.

 

[AKfish]

I entertained myself (and drove my wife crazy) with this debate about 10 years ago... Ended up with 2 different TLB's and lot's of hours renting different excavators and/or dozers.

Clearing land, building roads and parking areas, building pads and building/barn construction.

I've discovered that during the first 5-6 years having a backhoe and renting an excavator was a primary activity.

During the past 2-3 years my backhoe (JD 110TLB) has been sitting on the ground while the tractor has been used most often as a loader-utility machine.

We're now considering buying more land. It's currently all forest covered ground.

I'm gonna buy an excavator and resell it when I've got most of the work done - logging and clearing. Don't know if I'll sell the 110 or not.

Best of luck with your decision.

AKfish

 

[Kyle241]

Just adding my two cents long after you've likely made a decision. I love the Kubota mini-ex's however I did not go with a tractor and an ex for the following reasons:

- Maintenance on two machines
- The BH92 is more than ample for the work I do on my property and would argue it's enough for the majority of individuals
- Driving an ex on 89 acres is not fun and takes a while to get to where the work needs to be done
- Not enough storage area for two machines (one double garage only for car and tractor)

So those were my reasons. Like I say, mini-ex's are great machines and have great breakout force but it didn't make sense for me. Your reasons are different and it sounds like you're comfortable having two machines easily.

 

[couchsachraga]

Having 12 miles of trails around the property getting somewhere in a reasonable amount of time is nice - and if I keep those "trails" rather than "roads" for the most part I think a BH on the tractors should do fine for my small projects. Larger ones I can rent for a week and take care of a few projects at a time - and if it seems like they'll keep appearing, perhaps I'll look in to a used one and sell the BH at that point. I do like the idea of less machines to maintain.

If my backhoe doesn't sell I'll trade the tractor in and not get the hoe for it, at least initially. I won't be able to get to some areas, but the "necessary" work get still get done. I'm really only considering selling it to reduce the amount of equipment to maintain, and that it doesn't get used much, and we all know how sitting is just about the worst you can do for a machine.

 

[20 20]

One comment about more machines equals more maintenance, this is true, however if one machine does have down time it still leaves another machine to carry on {just a thought}. I can also say it was great having a mini ex to pull the engine on my dozer, to replace the clutch{made that job easy}. I have had many machines through out the yrs and I will say as long as things are kept up it's not bad.
In a perfect world all of my machines would have been new{I'm **** retentive when it comes to the care of machines}. I will add though, through carefull selection I have been a happy owner of some good pieces of equipment that have cost me nothing other then oil changes, fuel and grease. Not saying things won't break etc... but with proper care and "operation" the cost can be kept low especially if it's only for personal use.

Couchsachrga; from what I'm reading it seems you have things under control. I would like to write one more thing that I learned. Renting an ex doesn't seem like much until you start renting more and more. I soon relized by the time I was done renting I could have bought and saved, this is why I now own excavators. Plus I don't have to worry about weather, delivery, shape of machine etc...

 

[PAfarmer]

Mini Excavator and a tractor with a loader is the best combonation in my opinion. They are one of the most underrated peices of equipment in my opinion. I use mine daily for work and always bring it home from the job site for around the farm projects. Go with the kubota mini ex, they are the smoothest operating and the most reliable . I have owned many different brands.....Their KX line is a good place to start. My .02...LEt us know what you end up doing and best of luck.

 

[couchsachraga]

My current plan is to get what I think will be the ideal tractor, and perhaps get a BH for it short term. If it is all i need, I'm all set. If it isn't, once the tractor is paid off it'll be time to go excavator shopping. If I go that route I suspect I'll be looking at a 5-8 ton machine... trailerable won't make any difference for me.

 

[jenkinsph]

If that is the case you might wan't to consider keeping the older backhoe at least for a while and buying the tractor minus a hoe. Having used alot of various sized machines something worth noting is the extreme difference in reach. A small hoe means you have to get the tractor on top of the work whereas a fullsize hoe can reach quite a ways in between two trees as an example. Bear in mind you can still buy the hoe attachment if needed.

 

[couchsachraga]

The dynahoe gets used almost exclusively as a loader - other than pulling a few more stumps out I have not plans to use the hoe portion right now. I do need to put in a 850' waterline, but for that I was planning on renting (or hopefully using a friends who had offered) excavator, as it is too wet to get the Dynahoe in there.

I think I may start looking at tractors now (financing deal is certainly good) and only get a backhoe for it if my current one sells.

Looking at breakout force I've been surprised how "weak" a lot of the mini-ex's are. For similar breakout force as I'm used to looks like I'll be looking at an 8 ton machine. Not that I necessarily need that much grunt, but it surprised me none the less.

 

[jenkinsph]

I looked at lots of mini's back in 2004 or thereabouts and came to the same conclusion as you have. It takes a good sized excavator to match a full sized backhoe. For most of my plumbing jobs I don't need a large hoe, rather a small unit I can move cheaply and easily is more advantageous. The small 110tlb works great for this work.

I came very close to buying a Cat 304.5 mini ex and a Cat 902 wheel loader but this would involve multiple trips. While I prefer the separate excavator and wheel loader it was too inconvenient to make it work.

 

[VaughnB]

I just purchased a M59 it is very versatile with ability to switch from backhoe to 3 pt .hitch and all the skidsteer attachments for the front. I looked for the JD110's but they are now discontinued

 

[slowzuki]

A neighbour had a Case 580 and a 6 ton mini (midi?) The escavator could outdig the backhoe 2 to 1 easily, both with a 24" bucket. Not sure about max capacities though, just normal digging in shale/clay till.

 

[couchsachraga]

The Dynahoe has the breakout, but is a slow old dinosaur.

For now I've decided to wait and see if my friend wants to purchase it or not, and proceed with looking at tractors that would be "perfect" otherwise. I'll hold off on a hoe for it until the old beast goes, and then have more time to try and decide what might be best (485 hoe or midi-excavator). The more I think about it the less I seem to think I need a heavy duty hoe, though I'm sure if I had one (an excavator) I'd use it.

I started a new thread as I'm heading to the dealer on Friday...

Heading to the Deere Dealer Friday... - TractorByNet.com

 

[ManAtArms]

...Looking at breakout force I've been surprised how "weak" a lot of the mini-ex's are. For similar breakout force as I'm used to looks like I'll be looking at an 8 ton machine. Not that I necessarily need that much grunt, but it surprised me none the less.

From my informal research, it seems that most minis have a breakout force between 80-95% of the actual weight....for example it makes sense that a 11,000lbs. mini would have breakout force of 8000-9000lbs. I guess your breakout can't exceed your weight. I'm not sure if minis are rated differently than backhoes.

I think breakout also has something to do with how "long" the testing bucket is, i.e. a shorter bucket (including teeth) will have more breakout force. I bet not all manufacturers use a standardized bucket.

mark

 

[Dr_Zinj]

From my informal research, it seems that most minis have a breakout force between 80-95% of the actual weight....for example it makes sense that a 11,000lbs. mini would have breakout force of 8000-9000lbs. I guess your breakout can't exceed your weight. I'm not sure if minis are rated differently than backhoes.

I think breakout also has something to do with how "long" the testing bucket is, i.e. a shorter bucket (including teeth) will have more breakout force. I bet not all manufacturers use a standardized bucket.

mark

Hmmmm. An excavator with a breakout force greater than the weight of the machine would certainly expand the applications you could use it for. Push out of a hole, or do a vertical climb. Seems that there'd be some interesting military applications that might work for it.