Towing 10.1K with either Toyota Tundra SR5 OR F150 which is better?

[blee03]

Toyota VS Ford?

The F150 is light years ahead of Toyota (period)

"The Ford F-Series is still the number one best-selling truck for 46 consecutive years. Ford delivered over 650,000 examples of the F-Series in 2022"

5.0L F150 gets my vote

 

[WinterDeere]

The F150 is light years ahead of Toyota (period)

"The Ford F-Series is still the number one best-selling truck for 46 consecutive years. Ford delivered over 650,000 examples of the F-Series in 2022"

I'm not a fan of either Ford or Toyota, so I have no horse in this race. But with regard to the reasoning you posted here, popularity has never been a good measure of quality or performance, with regard to any product. McDonalds sells more meat per day than any favorite steakhouse you can name, and the Spice Girls or Milli Vanilli probably sold more albums than your favorite artist.

 

[blee03]

Popularity has never been a good measure of quality or performance, with regard to any product. McDonalds sells more meat per day than any favorite steakhouse you can name, and the Spice Girls or Milli Vanilli probably sold more albums than your favorite artist.

If it didn't keep selling in the #1 spot for 46 years maybe you'd have something there... Milli Vanilli sold a lot of albums over the course of a few years.

I don't drive a Ford and I never plan to, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a Toyota. Being born and raised just north of the the motor city, I might see 1 Toyota or Nissan pickup on the road each day... compared to hundreds of Fords, Chevys and Dodges.

 

[WinterDeere]

If it didn't keep selling in the #1 spot for 46 years maybe you'd have something there...

Well... I guess by that logic, all of us buying Dodges and Chevys must be idiots. We should just all buy Ford, because it's been the #1 seller for 46 years, therefore it must be the best.

Brand loyalty is a funny thing, especially with regard to the vehicles we drive. Too many just buy a Ford, because it's what they've always owned, not realizing some of the others may offer a product they'd actually like better. It's happened to me, it's happened to all of us, I suspect.

 

[deezler]

A bit off-topic, but with a few others referring to rear gear ratios, I really don't understand how anyone tolerates driving any of these low-ratio rear-ends. In the last few years, 3.5's and even 3.2's(!) are becoming common, thanks to 8 and 10-speed transmissions and the endless hunt for better MPG's. But they drive like a wet napkin, I can't even feel the gear changes, due to the low separation created between each trans gear on such a low-ratio rear.

Trucks should really never have a rear end ratio lower than 4:1, and I'll continue to order them with this option as long as it's available, although presently 3.93 is as close as I can get in OEM. It gives better torque off the line when towing, wider separating between gears, and crisper gear shifts you can actually feel.

You raise a good point here. But I will say, my '03 2500HD had 4.10 gearing, which was great. But through just a 4-spd 4L80 trans, it was still pretty horrible. Yeah I liked how it banged shifts (after a black bear performance tune), but the torque converter was a weak, slushy affair. And made you run 2500+ rpm on the highway at normal cruising speed, which wasted a lot of gas.

The 10-speed 10R80 in my F150 is so different, it's hard to fully describe. I only have 3.31 gearing now, but my total ratio spread is WAYyyyy wider. The 10 speed likes to skip gears on gentle acceleration because it can. But get into specific higher load scenarios, and it knows just what to do.

 

[WinterDeere]

The 10-speed 10R80 in my F150 is so different, it's hard to fully describe. I only have 3.31 gearing now, but my total ratio spread is WAYyyyy wider. The 10 speed likes to skip gears on gentle acceleration because it can. But get into specific higher load scenarios, and it knows just what to do.

I agree with you, but I still hate the 3.2 - 3.5 gear ratios for the soft "wimpy" shifts they provide. They just don't feel good, to any horsepower adrenaline junkie. I want to feel that kick in my pants with each gear change, it's at least some partial concession for having to give up my beloved manual transmission on this latest generation of vehicles.

Oh, and to whomever earlier claimed the Toyota Tundra can be had with manual transmission? At least back when I had looked, it was only an option with the smaller motors, not with the 5 liter v8. The last hold-out offering manual transmission with a v8 gasser 4x4 crew cab was Dodge, and that was back in the Daimler-Dodge days. They used Getrag gearboxes, from Germany. Any other manual transmission options available from any maker after that were only small motors, standard cabs, stripped-down "work truck" editions, etc.

 

[deserteagle71]

Scary part is that isn't using all the power it makes, I've never had the gas pedal pushed to the floor once towing. My diesel was held to the floor any upgrade I had to downshift on.

You must be talking about an ancient diesel! I also have a Dodge/Cummins dually and I guarantee you, it pulls much harder than my Ecoboost. The way it takes 28,000 lbs over steep mountain passes just makes me smile, and never have I had the pedal to the floor because it just wasn't necessary. And it's rated at less than 600 lb-ft of torque. I can't even imagine what the new Powerstroke, with 1200 lb-ft of torque, must feel like with a heavy load behind it.

The 3.5 Ecoboost is an awesome engine - I've had mine for over 7 years now and love it. But when I have to hook to a real load I bring the Dodge/Cummins out of the barn.

 

[Torvy]

Why, because Toyota people say so? I've had way better reliability from my American vehicles than my Japanese one. (All Honda, and no Toyotas though) My boss bought a brand new, first year GEN2 Tundra, and had to replace 3 wheel bearings in the first year. When I asked if it was all the same wheel bearing, just improper installation, the answer was, "no it was the bearings on 2 different wheels." Kind of an odd issue to have with a brand new, 2WD 1/2 ton. I've known 2 people with Lexus ES300's whose engine needed replacing, and one was at roughly 120K, and the other around 150K if I remember right.

Do I feel that Toyota vehicles are generally reliable? Yes, but they can and do have issues too. My in-laws bought a new Camry to replace their 07 Camry 2-3 years ago. They kept having to spend for repairs. The one I remember was they needed a new exhaust manifold because the cat clogged on their I4 car. Now you might say, "but the car had 300K miles." Cool, but going 300K, on a properly maintained vehicle isn't unheard of, or some special feat. I've known people pushing noticeably more mileage than that, and not having to constantly repair their vehicles. I know a guy who had an 89 Mustang LX with 400K on the factory drivetrain. I've known a couple pre-AFM 5.3L Silverado owners with around 400K miles. Are there Toyota's with that kind of miles that needed little $ spent in repairs and upkeep? Sure, but the point is Toyota generally being reliable doesn't mean that other vehicles aren't reliable in general either. This is why I say reliability is overrated. I don't want a vehicle with that much wear and tear on it. At that point I'd rather get something fresh and modern.

And you still don't understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and facts. Data. Statistically significant differences.

To say reliability doesn't matter is is saying you don't understand what it means or you simply are in denial because your favorite brand is unreliable. Reliability is like insurance and warranties, only better. You don't think about reliability until you miss it. Don't want my wife or daughters driving a POS whether it has 10k miles or 500k miles. When your vehicle is in the shop 10% more than average, that means someone cannot get to work, or worse, is stuck on the side of the road in a bad neighborhood, 10% more often.

I don't have some mindless attachment to the Toyota brand. I am not denying the Tundra like mine get bad mileage. I don't make silly statements like mileage doesn't matter. I also don't make silly arguments like 'my neighbors cousin had a Tundra that got 36 mpg'.

I would not pit the other "Japanese" cars in the same class as Toyota anymore. Nissan fell down about 25 years ago. Honda has been slipping for the last 20. They are still better than many makes, but Toyota shines well above all in reliability...from day 1, not just with high miles.

 

[LightningCamaroGuy]

Max Tow is not Max Payload. Max Payload was only available with 3.5EB. Max Tow was simply a bundle of popular towing options including a receiver hitch not just bumper hitch.

You have to learn how to read the doublespeak used in the brochure. The 2018 F-150 brochure says,

Max. Trailer Tow Package2 (required for towing up to 13,200 lbs.; requires 3.5L EcoBoost engine): 3.55 electronic-locking rear axle (3.73 with Heavy-Duty Payload Package),

What the above does not say is that Max Trailer Two Package2 provides 13.2k towing, it only says that this is necessary to reach 13.2k.

Correct. Back in 2018-2020 at least, Ford offered a tow package, (which my truck has) and on top of the normal tow package they offered a max tow package which before 21 could only be had with a 3.5L. With the max payload trucks, the 5L was rated to carry an extra 40 lbs (3,230 lbs, vs 3,270 lbs) over the EB. Likely the EB setup weighs an extra 40 lbs more than the 5L setup, or they'd be rated at the same payload if both engines added the same weight to the truck.

Max tow did bump up the tow rating according to Ford about an extra 2K lbs over a regular tow package. There are charts for this, but for some reason this site won't host these images.

Here's a link to a great site for tow data on trucks.

2018 Ford F-150 Towing Capacities

The 2018 F-150 had a pretty impressive maximum towing capacity of 13,200 pounds, if you had the proper tow equipment, engine, axle ratio, etc. equipped, which is mind-blowing for an F-150! As impressive as that

letstowthat.com

 

[LightningCamaroGuy]

BUT, but but but, max payload now only comes on the lowest XL trim. Which is pretty well equipped compared to any truck from even just 5 or 6 years ago, but it still sucks to miss the bigger screens, nicer interior features, surround cameras, adaptive cruise, etc etc.

I personally wouldn't want a max payload truck. The bed/cab/drivetrain configuration is more suited to a company truck as opposed to a personal truck that you daily, and haul your family in, etc.

Still these numbers are crazy. A 1/2 truck is supposed to be able to haul 1,000 lbs of payload in the bed. A 3/4 ton is supposed to be able to haul 1,500 lbs payload in the bed. A 1 ton is supposed to be able to haul 2,000 lbs payload in the bed. That's where these names originated from. A modern F150 with a max payload that is rated to haul nearly 3,300 lbs is basically a 1.625 ton truck, but whatever.