Top US Seller!

[JimBinMI]

Fellow Blue Boys & Girls,

I was at my New Holland dealer this afternoon and found out that my dealer is the 5th Biggest dealer for Woods - Nationwide! I thought that was pretty cool, and helps explain the good prices I get. /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

While I was at it, I asked my salesman, owner's brother-in-law, been in the business for years, the question that a lot have asked with no answers. I asked who sold more compacts, New Holland, Kubota, Deere? He stated, and this is his knowledge base not mine, that Kubota sells more compacts Worldwide <font color=blue>BUT New Holland sells more compacts in the United States of America!</font color=blue> /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif Must be the more intelligent/informed US buyers...no offense to international forum visitors/members!

I don't know if this is factual, I believe him though, if he was not being truthful I think he would have said that NH outsells Kubota everywhere. (Which, by the way it does as an entire corporation, all products)

JimBinMI


We boys and our toys!

 

[Roy]

I found this one last Spring on Hoover's. (No, I didn't consult a vacuum! It's a business research service)...

Kubota quietly finds success in both machinery and engine markets in North
America.
Abstracted from Diesel Progress North American Edition 02/01/99

"Kubota Corp of Japan has slowly built a strong base in the North American machinery and diesel engine markets. As one of the premier manufacturers of both diesel engines and machinery in the world, Kubota consistently turns in impressive sales figures annually. The company is the leading supplier of small farm and utility tractors under 40 hp in North America and is ranked second in the market for small backhoe loaders. It is also second to Melroe in miniexcavators, accounting for about 30% of the market. Kubota's major competitors in the North American market are Caterpillar, Deere, Waldon and Singer."

So, Jim, it looks like Kubota is the leading North American seller of compacts. Which supports your contention that we are "intelligent/informed US buyers". /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[EddieW]

It would not surprise me either way. If you look at the offerings of NH, Kubota, and JD, Kubota offers a wider selection of sizes and hp to fit everybody's needs especially homeowners. NH has come out with the new Boomers and my guess is they will reclaim some of that market or force Kubota to redesign to a more attractive appearance. JD evidently has evidently only recently became interested in competing in that market with the introduction of the 4000 series. THey still don't have much selection in the 30 hp and under range with only 2 models at or under 30hp, 4100, and 4200. Kubota has BX2200, B7400, B7500, B2410, B2710, B2910, and L3010?. NH has TC18, TC21, TC25, and TC29. Am I headed in a wrong direction here or does it make sense to anybody else? Are more of the 30hp and under bought for home use or commercial use?

 

[Roy]

Eddie, I think you have a good theory. If you offer a wider selection, then you have a better chance of having whatever feature a particular consumer is interested in. Thus more sales. Kubota concentrates on compacts. I do believe that NH is applying serious pressure on them. JD is spread out in many markets, so I don't expect an explosion in their compact line anytime soon.

BTW... What's with CC? My one and only local CC dealer has put up a Kubota sign. They use to have at least 15 CC's on the lot at all times. Last week as I drove by I saw only 2 (no Kubota's yet, though), ala possible stock liquidation sale. Since they were closed, I didn't get a chance to ask. Is CC having a rough time in the market?

 

[W5FL]

Sounds like your dealer is not very well informed on Kubota sales. Now I wonder if he is bigger Woods dealer than some Kubota dealers that I know that sell a lot of Woods equipment.

 

[JimBinMI]

Roy,

Your source is over a year and a half old. Does anyone have a more recent concrete source? I realize that my source is not concrete, but I figured it would at least bring about fact-backed discussion which has been lacking since the first person ever asked for actual sales and who sells more.

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[JimBinMI]

Wen,

Why is he not very well informed, please respond with fact-backed information, quote recent sources if there are any. IF Kubota does sell more in USA, I can handle that...I think! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[W5FL]

Well, they sold me one and the other didn't:

Kubota - 1
New Holland - 0

Your thread. Bombard us with all the factual data you want to.

The local John Deere dealer says John Deere outsells New Holland. The local Kubota dealer says Kubota outsells New Holland. Asked the New Holland dealer (who is also a John Deere Dealer) who sold the most compacts and he said he didn't know for sure but he sold a lot more John Deere than New Holland. It is probably all self serving, but they don't care, all they want to do is sell a tractor, not buy stock in a company.

 

[Bird]

Sounds like that dealer is a politician; told you what you wanted to hear./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But didn't want to stretch the truth too far by claiming New Holland was the big seller worldwide./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

And as for factual data as to who sells the most; I don't have any, or care really./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird

 

[JimBinMI]

Bird,

Don't kid yourself, you cared enough to read the posts and respond...I'd say there's some interest there! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[Roy]

I was waiting for someone to point that out! I agree, it's old, and is probably based on FY 1998 data, but it's the only source of independent information I have ever found to date. (Even then, it may not be independent, who knows who/what the reporter's source was). But, it's at LEAST as credible as a dealer's hunch.

Over the past few months I have looked for everything and anything which reflects sales. Corporate annual reports are no good. Depends on what divisions Compact sales are reported in, if it is US or Global division, and what else the Division derives revenue from. The numbers from those puppies are like comparing apples, oranges and blue-berries! We pay taxes, why can't the Commerce or Agriculture Departments report the important statistics /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. (And I have extensively searched both sites).

Does it matter to me? Nope. I am curious because it keeps coming up, but without hard data. It's the engineer in me. I just don't like speculation, I like facts derived from raw data. So it's been an enigma, a challange for my spare time.

 

[Bird]

JimBinMI, I'd never kid myself, but can you say the same?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[Muhammad]

Here's something to munch on...

John Deere
Sales, under-40 horsepower tractors: 72,063 Units (1999)
Sales, 40-100 horsepower tractors: 47,706 Units (1999)
Total Agricultural Tractors Sold: 139,012 (1999)

In 1998, John Deere sold 57,855 under-40 horsepower tractors, and 49,123 40-100 horsepower tractors, again in the US market. So you can see that the under-40 horsepower sales for John Deere were up a little more than 24% in 1999. Can anyone say 4000 series?

Data compiled from John Deere’s 1999 Annual Investor Report @ http://www.deere.com/

Figures for US market.

New Holland
Sales, under-40 horsepower tractors: Info Not Available (Requested)
Sales, 40-100 horsepower tractors: Info Not Available (Requested)
Total Agricultural Tractors Sold: 30,420 (1998)

If New Holland’s under-100 horsepower category sales were similar to John Deere’s in terms of a percentage, then they sold somewhere near 24,000 units in 1998, less than 1/4 of John Deere’s sales. But that is assuming that New Holland’s under-100 horsepower sales as a percentage of total ag tractor sales are similar to John Deere’s. I have requested actual information from New Holland and am awaiting a response.

Data compiled from New Holland’s 1998 Annual Investor Report @ http://www.newholland.com/

Figures for US market.

Kubota
Sales, under-40 horsepower tractors: Info Not Available (to be requested)
Sales, 40-100 horsepower tractors: Info Not Available (to be requested)
Total Agricultural Tractors Sold: Info Not Available (to be requested)

March 1999 – March 2000 US sales: $1,147,009,000

Most of the information available is from Kubota Corporation of Japan, and doesn’t include many, if any details of the US tractor division, Kubota Tractor Corporation. I’ll try to get the actual US under-100 horsepower sales to compare with other figures.

Data compiled from Kubota’s 2000 Annual Investor Report @ http://www.kubota.co.jp/

So you can say that New Holland probably isn't larger than John Deere, for one! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Muhammad on 8/8/00 01:08 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[W5FL]

Thanks Muhammad for posting that information. That is what makes this forum so great!

Guess you can conclude that there are not enough tractors to go around so some people are just going to have to wait to buy theirs.

If there are 272 million people in the US and only 272,000 tractors (a little extrapolation)sold, then only 1 in 1000 was lucky enough to get a new tractor last year and 242,000 of them wouldn't have a tractor if they didn't buy a Kubota or John Deere. In a city of 100,000 perhaps 100 tractors were sold (10 of them New Holland). Maybe that is why I see awards for selling 100 tractors or more at the dealerships. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[_RaT_]

Re: Top US Seller! \"So\"

Roy, if the 3 tractor manufactuers had some easy way to get info regarding their sales, I would take a look at it. Its funny, although I have never owned a Kubota, my perception has always been that in terms of the compact tractors, they were by far the biggest manufactuer. Here in California, I don't think that there is much question that Kubota outsells the others, and by what I perceive to a substantial amount. Once you have a tractor or are interested in one, you pay attention to everyone you see. Whether on a trailer going down the road, in a yard or on a small farm, its hard not to notice not only the make, but when you can, the model. This is perhaps where my perception is formed regarding the number of Kubotas I see versus Green ones and Blue ones. I also think of Deere as being the second greatest number I see. It could very well be a regional thing.
My first response to who sells more or who the largest manufactuer is usually "so". Its really only important if you feel the need to elevate the status of your product in your mind or others minds as some New Holland owner(s) are inclined to do. I for example, would not buy 1" gate valves from China even though they may very well be the largest producer of them, in my opinion they are still inferior. This is not to say thats the way it works as obviously it does not, but my point is, its a poor way to determine what to buy. My next tractor will probably be a Kubota, I find the engine and HST a really superior combination. I'm glad to though that Kubota has someone like New Holland and John Deere to continue their push toward new ideas and technology, it actually works all the way around as the new Boomers are a major step forward from the old line Ford/New Holland once made. Rat...

 

[Bird]

Re: Top US Seller! \"So\"

Well said, Rat. I agree. I don't care whether they're the biggest or not; just whether they're the best for my purposes, which of course, may not be the same for someone else.

Bird

 

[shade2u2]

Re: Top US Seller! \"So\"

Could the JD numbers for "under 40hp" include alot of their lawn tractors or is that identified seperately? I do agree that it really doesn't matter. The most important tractor to me is the one that I have. All brands including CC seem to do the job well for many folks on this board.

 

[Roy]

Re: Top US Seller! \"So\"

Good post, Rat. Awhile back I posted that I really want all the manufactures to survive. Competition spurns innovation and (without collusion), lower cost.

I think that to some sales are an issue. Standard buyer's psychology on any high-ticket item. It's a way to allow people to feel that they made the correct decision. Everyone experiences it, to some degree, for purchases which are big commitments for them. (Don't think that Bill Gates would go through remorse or rationalization phases on a $20k tractor).

I like to use new expensive vehicles as examples, Since we don't buy (usually) that many tractors in our lifetimes. After the purchase we rationalize the expense and look for indicators which support our purchase. Five years latter, we may be cursing that same vehicle as we unload it.

 

[W5FL]

Re: Top US Seller! \"So\"

Interesting post.

I was never concerned with who sells the most, but was very concerned with the reliability of the product and the problems that people had with them and whether they would do the job that I wanted to do.

Re-sale was never an issues as I usually keep most vehicles until they are wore out or they get handed down to someone else.

That said, it is hard to be number 3 and number 4 in sales and afford the engineering necessary to have a reliable and up to date product. Massey did it the same as John Deere - by buying proven engines and components from others. Even back 25 years ago, most tractors were fabricated from components made by many different countries, although marketing tried to make them appear as US made.

Hope we are all happy with the tractor we have, but hope it is not due to some fabricted catagorized statistics that mean very little.