Toolbox and Lights for my JD4100
- Thread starter TerryinMD
- Start date
- Views: 12001
-
- Tags
- john deere 4100
MikePA
Super Moderator
I was going to mount my lights on the FEL but creating a breakable connection between the FEL and the tractor was an issue. I ended up buying some waterproof connectors like the ones that are used in trailer wiring (black snap connectors with the little green gaskets) and never used them since I mounted mine on the ROPS. Car Parts sells them.
Mike,
Here we go -
Current headlights are 37.5 watts (2) = 75 watts
Front facing auxilliary lights are 50 watts (2) = 100 watts
Rear facing auxilliary light is 50 watts (1) = 50 watts
Total is 225 watts.
Now I apply the handy, dandy conversion formula Amps=watts/volts - 18.75 amperes = 225 watts/12 volts
This excludes dash lights and warning lights.
So, looks like my alternator should be able to handle the lighting load.
Now I just have to figure out the all the parts and pieces to tap into the battery.
Terry
Here we go -
Current headlights are 37.5 watts (2) = 75 watts
Front facing auxilliary lights are 50 watts (2) = 100 watts
Rear facing auxilliary light is 50 watts (1) = 50 watts
Total is 225 watts.
Now I apply the handy, dandy conversion formula Amps=watts/volts - 18.75 amperes = 225 watts/12 volts
This excludes dash lights and warning lights.
So, looks like my alternator should be able to handle the lighting load.
Now I just have to figure out the all the parts and pieces to tap into the battery.
Terry
Thomas
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 31,792
- Location
- Lebanon,NH.
- Tractor
- Kubota B2650HSD w/Frontloader & CC LTX1046 & Craftman T2200 lawn mower.
How about a twist lock electric plug.
Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
MikePA
Super Moderator
EdDekker
Silver Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2000
- Messages
- 192
- Location
- New Ipswich, New Hampshire
- Tractor
- Kubota B2400, Bobcat 331 Mini-Excavator
A relay allows you to switch a low current circuit to control a large current. You can use the instrument panel switch and be sure that you are not going to burn out the expensive switch. Relays are also rated for their switching capabilities.
A switch, like the head light switch in the instrument panel is rated to switch only a certain amount of current. If the switch is used to switch a higher load the life of the switch will be reduced and with a still higher load can burn out at once. Since the cost of a switch is related to its capability of the switch, we can assume that the instrument panel switch is rated for the tractor lights and the OEM accessories plus a safety margin.
When any mechanical switch opens or closes a circuit there is a spark. You can sometimes see a small flash inside the switch when you switch room lights with the wall switch. In some cases the spark is small enough that we can ignore it, such as the switch in a mini-maglight. In other cases the switch will have a massive mechanism to handle the arc safely, such as the switches in the Power Company transformer yards. Most switches are in between.
Uncontrolled each small spark will vaporize a small spot of metal from the switch.
Failure modes include:
1) The arc may be large enough to burn a spot leaving oxides of the metal alloy. After many cycles the build up of burned spots may make the connection unreliable. In this failure mode the switch develops a higher and higher resistance and the switch will heat up whenever it is turned on. The high resistance will limit the current available to the load. The heating of the switch may present a problem including a fire risk.
1a) Alternatively the burned spots may insulate and prevent a good connection, leaving the switch off. This may produce a switch which sometimes (or never) turns the load on.
2) The arc may be large enough or repeated enough times to vaporize away enough material that the contacts don't touch and the switch can never turn on.
3) The arc may be large enough to weld the switch contacts closed.
Switches are rated for current, voltage, AC or DC service, and inductive load. These determine the geometry of the contacts. and should not be used outside the rated range. The voltage determines the size gap that a spark can jump. A switch will be designed with contacts large enough to handle the current with materials suitable for the load and able to move the contacts apart fast enough, and far enough, to control the arc damage.
In some cases the arc is relied on by the switch designer to clean the contact area. Use of this type switch for voltages and currents below the designed range may result in poor reliability.
Some switches are rated for inductive loads. It can be a painful experience to use a switch not rated for inductive loads to control a big DC motor. Inductive loads are the most demanding to switch. The transformer yard switch must deal with the inductance of miles of power lines.
Why is this necessary (Electrical Engineering in a one screenfull)
There are three basic properties of electrical elements:
Resistance
Capacitance
Inductance
Resistance is the simplest load for a circuit. A resister will consume power. Heat and light are the result of resistance.
Inductance is the property of a coil of wire. This property is enhanced if the wire coil has a magnetic core (a hunk of iron). The inductor stores energy in its magnetic field. If we have a simple circuit with a battery a switch, and an inductor, when turned on the electromagnetic field builds up as current flows until a limit is reached. The current flow drops and the current flow will be determined by the resistance of the circuit. The limit is the measured inductance of the circuit. The inductor uses more current as the magnetic field is building. The tendency of the inductor is to keep current flowing. If the inductive circuit is broken (switch opens) the voltage in the circuit will build as the energy stored in the magnetic field is converted back to voltage. An inductive load will present the switch very high voltages as the switch is opened and the inductor attempts to keep current flowing. The arc in the switch will be much larger, and capable of jumping a larger air gap, because of this increased voltage. This will tend to burn out switches as the switch is turned off.
A Capacitor operates to block direct current after charging, storing energy in an electrostatic field. If we have a circuit with a battery a switch and a capacitor, the capacitor will charge and no additional current will flow. When the capacitor is fully charged no additional current will flow from the battery.
Reactance is a combination of inductance and capacitance.
With an Alternating Current (AC) the capacitor will pass current and an inductor will block current flow. A resister will behave the same for AC and DC.
For our light circuit we have some incidental inductance and capacitance but it is close enough to a pure resistive load to ignore the reactance of the circuit. A DC motor running a sprayer is an inductive load with a substantial resistive component of the load. With the DC motor both the inductance and resistance must be considered.
Ed
A switch, like the head light switch in the instrument panel is rated to switch only a certain amount of current. If the switch is used to switch a higher load the life of the switch will be reduced and with a still higher load can burn out at once. Since the cost of a switch is related to its capability of the switch, we can assume that the instrument panel switch is rated for the tractor lights and the OEM accessories plus a safety margin.
When any mechanical switch opens or closes a circuit there is a spark. You can sometimes see a small flash inside the switch when you switch room lights with the wall switch. In some cases the spark is small enough that we can ignore it, such as the switch in a mini-maglight. In other cases the switch will have a massive mechanism to handle the arc safely, such as the switches in the Power Company transformer yards. Most switches are in between.
Uncontrolled each small spark will vaporize a small spot of metal from the switch.
Failure modes include:
1) The arc may be large enough to burn a spot leaving oxides of the metal alloy. After many cycles the build up of burned spots may make the connection unreliable. In this failure mode the switch develops a higher and higher resistance and the switch will heat up whenever it is turned on. The high resistance will limit the current available to the load. The heating of the switch may present a problem including a fire risk.
1a) Alternatively the burned spots may insulate and prevent a good connection, leaving the switch off. This may produce a switch which sometimes (or never) turns the load on.
2) The arc may be large enough or repeated enough times to vaporize away enough material that the contacts don't touch and the switch can never turn on.
3) The arc may be large enough to weld the switch contacts closed.
Switches are rated for current, voltage, AC or DC service, and inductive load. These determine the geometry of the contacts. and should not be used outside the rated range. The voltage determines the size gap that a spark can jump. A switch will be designed with contacts large enough to handle the current with materials suitable for the load and able to move the contacts apart fast enough, and far enough, to control the arc damage.
In some cases the arc is relied on by the switch designer to clean the contact area. Use of this type switch for voltages and currents below the designed range may result in poor reliability.
Some switches are rated for inductive loads. It can be a painful experience to use a switch not rated for inductive loads to control a big DC motor. Inductive loads are the most demanding to switch. The transformer yard switch must deal with the inductance of miles of power lines.
Why is this necessary (Electrical Engineering in a one screenfull)
There are three basic properties of electrical elements:
Resistance
Capacitance
Inductance
Resistance is the simplest load for a circuit. A resister will consume power. Heat and light are the result of resistance.
Inductance is the property of a coil of wire. This property is enhanced if the wire coil has a magnetic core (a hunk of iron). The inductor stores energy in its magnetic field. If we have a simple circuit with a battery a switch, and an inductor, when turned on the electromagnetic field builds up as current flows until a limit is reached. The current flow drops and the current flow will be determined by the resistance of the circuit. The limit is the measured inductance of the circuit. The inductor uses more current as the magnetic field is building. The tendency of the inductor is to keep current flowing. If the inductive circuit is broken (switch opens) the voltage in the circuit will build as the energy stored in the magnetic field is converted back to voltage. An inductive load will present the switch very high voltages as the switch is opened and the inductor attempts to keep current flowing. The arc in the switch will be much larger, and capable of jumping a larger air gap, because of this increased voltage. This will tend to burn out switches as the switch is turned off.
A Capacitor operates to block direct current after charging, storing energy in an electrostatic field. If we have a circuit with a battery a switch and a capacitor, the capacitor will charge and no additional current will flow. When the capacitor is fully charged no additional current will flow from the battery.
Reactance is a combination of inductance and capacitance.
With an Alternating Current (AC) the capacitor will pass current and an inductor will block current flow. A resister will behave the same for AC and DC.
For our light circuit we have some incidental inductance and capacitance but it is close enough to a pure resistive load to ignore the reactance of the circuit. A DC motor running a sprayer is an inductive load with a substantial resistive component of the load. With the DC motor both the inductance and resistance must be considered.
Ed
Ed,
I'm at work and I forgot my drool cup. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
I have a general understanding of what you said in your post, but I'm having trouble relating it to my needs. That being said, let's see if I can put this together in words.
1. Run a wire from the battery to get my power.
2. Place a fuse between the battery and relay (fuzzy on sizing here for the relay).
3. Run the power wire to two switches - ending up having two circuits. One for forward auxillary lights. The other for rear floodlight.
4. Run wires from the switches to the lights.
5. Done.
Am I close?
Terry
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by TerryinMD on 12/19/01 03:12 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
I'm at work and I forgot my drool cup. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
I have a general understanding of what you said in your post, but I'm having trouble relating it to my needs. That being said, let's see if I can put this together in words.
1. Run a wire from the battery to get my power.
2. Place a fuse between the battery and relay (fuzzy on sizing here for the relay).
3. Run the power wire to two switches - ending up having two circuits. One for forward auxillary lights. The other for rear floodlight.
4. Run wires from the switches to the lights.
5. Done.
Am I close?
Terry
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by TerryinMD on 12/19/01 03:12 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
EdDekker
Silver Member
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2000
- Messages
- 192
- Location
- New Ipswich, New Hampshire
- Tractor
- Kubota B2400, Bobcat 331 Mini-Excavator
Here is a zipped PDF file with a diagram of two possible hookups for a set of lights. In case you do not have the Acrobat viewer I have also included the drawing badly converted to JPEG and the VISEO drawing file. (Sigh, Visio JPEG and GIF output of this little drawing is totally messed up. The Acrobat viewer JPEG output is better but still messed up. As a last resort I also included the Visio file.)
The first uses one switch one switch and one relay for each set of lights. This allows you to use a low current switch and run a smaller diameter wire to the switch.
The second diagram shows the existing headlight switch being used to switch an additional set of lights.
I have not installed my forward and rear auxillary lights yet. I plan to use two high current switches. The advantages of the relay are to reuse the existing headlight switch without risking burning out the switch, and to allow use of much smaller wire for the run to the switch.
Ed
The first uses one switch one switch and one relay for each set of lights. This allows you to use a low current switch and run a smaller diameter wire to the switch.
The second diagram shows the existing headlight switch being used to switch an additional set of lights.
I have not installed my forward and rear auxillary lights yet. I plan to use two high current switches. The advantages of the relay are to reuse the existing headlight switch without risking burning out the switch, and to allow use of much smaller wire for the run to the switch.
Ed
Anonymous Poster
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 29,678
i hung two round tractor utility lights from the rops with long carriage bolts. [holes were already there]
one faces forward, one to the rear.
they can both swing up and down [even past straight down!]
this allows me to have one pointed down at the 3ph, and one looking back at the blade or rough mower.
i installed a push/pull switch next to the ignition - i spliced off the hot battery terminal [sometimes i need light without the motor running - like when i am trying to attach that pto in the dark!]
lights were bought at the hardware/farm store.
i am very happy with the ability to swing the lights wherever i need them.
one faces forward, one to the rear.
they can both swing up and down [even past straight down!]
this allows me to have one pointed down at the 3ph, and one looking back at the blade or rough mower.
i installed a push/pull switch next to the ignition - i spliced off the hot battery terminal [sometimes i need light without the motor running - like when i am trying to attach that pto in the dark!]
lights were bought at the hardware/farm store.
i am very happy with the ability to swing the lights wherever i need them.
TWINKLE_TOES
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2000
- Messages
- 1,366
Ed,
Good job/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif One thing that might be added is the resitive load we have for tractor lights is an incandescent filament in the bulb. The resistance of the bulb is very low when the filament is cold. The current draw of a lamp load is 7 to 10 times the steady state current of the bulb. A 55 Watt bulb in operation draws about 4 1/2 amps. The current the switch or relay needs to handle when the light is turned on can be 30 to 50 amps. The peak current is short in duration ~ 10-20mSec for lamps used on a tractor. Typically the current never achieves the higher level due to the resistance of the wiring to the light. Lamp loads are one of the toughest loads a switch or relay will see. Relay manufactures like Leach will derate the contacts a factor of 5 for lamp loads VS a pure resistive load. Bottom line, don't use your tractor ignition switch to directly contol your added lamp loads. I wired my tractor with a separate switch. Which I use to turn the lights on/off after the ignition switch is on. If I forget to turn the switch off , the next time I turn the tractor on the tractor switch gets hammered./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif The relay approach is a better way for this reason.
Al
Good job/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif One thing that might be added is the resitive load we have for tractor lights is an incandescent filament in the bulb. The resistance of the bulb is very low when the filament is cold. The current draw of a lamp load is 7 to 10 times the steady state current of the bulb. A 55 Watt bulb in operation draws about 4 1/2 amps. The current the switch or relay needs to handle when the light is turned on can be 30 to 50 amps. The peak current is short in duration ~ 10-20mSec for lamps used on a tractor. Typically the current never achieves the higher level due to the resistance of the wiring to the light. Lamp loads are one of the toughest loads a switch or relay will see. Relay manufactures like Leach will derate the contacts a factor of 5 for lamp loads VS a pure resistive load. Bottom line, don't use your tractor ignition switch to directly contol your added lamp loads. I wired my tractor with a separate switch. Which I use to turn the lights on/off after the ignition switch is on. If I forget to turn the switch off , the next time I turn the tractor on the tractor switch gets hammered./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif The relay approach is a better way for this reason.
Al
MikePA
Super Moderator
This thread is why I bought two automotive lighting kits (KC HiLites kits) for use on my tractor. While they were more expensive than buying lights at TSC, the kits contain all the wiring, switches and relays needed to install the lights. We live about 15 miles from the closest TSC and there's nothing (well, almost nothing) more frustrating than getting half way through a job and discovering you need to run out and get a part, switch, relay, etc. With a kit, everything you need is right in the box. Don't get me wrong, I've learned a lot about wiring from this thread, and maybe contributed a thing or two, but I will usually trade a little money for a lot less frustration.
TWINKLE_TOES
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2000
- Messages
- 1,366
Mike,
<font color=blue>I will usually trade a little money for a lot less frustration.</font color=blue>
I sure agree with that./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif As I get older seems like the trade of time for dollars becomes less and less favorable. Buying the complete set up for your lights is a good idea even if you understand all about this electrical stuff. Hooking up work lights using a separate switch or relay will save folks a lot of grief later, even if they are not exactly sure why. You don't have to understand the molecular structure of soap to know it will get ya clean. Learning when to use it is a little tougher/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Al
<font color=blue>I will usually trade a little money for a lot less frustration.</font color=blue>
I sure agree with that./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif As I get older seems like the trade of time for dollars becomes less and less favorable. Buying the complete set up for your lights is a good idea even if you understand all about this electrical stuff. Hooking up work lights using a separate switch or relay will save folks a lot of grief later, even if they are not exactly sure why. You don't have to understand the molecular structure of soap to know it will get ya clean. Learning when to use it is a little tougher/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Al
Mike,
Well, I went out on an expedition today to do some Christmas shopping and look into some of the suggestions made by all of you.
A funny thing happened, my wife went along for the ride. Nevertheless, didn't get to do all of the things I wanted. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
We're heading up to Somerset and Pittsburgh for the weekend and then back home on Sunday. Of course, got to finish the shopping that I wanted to do Friday, so there goes Monday!! /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif Sigh..... Tuesday brings Christmas and well no tractor stuff - a time for family and friends.
So it looks like the weekend before the New Year before I get into the job.
Sorry to prattle on... but I think you understand.
Terry
Well, I went out on an expedition today to do some Christmas shopping and look into some of the suggestions made by all of you.
A funny thing happened, my wife went along for the ride. Nevertheless, didn't get to do all of the things I wanted. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
We're heading up to Somerset and Pittsburgh for the weekend and then back home on Sunday. Of course, got to finish the shopping that I wanted to do Friday, so there goes Monday!! /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif Sigh..... Tuesday brings Christmas and well no tractor stuff - a time for family and friends.
So it looks like the weekend before the New Year before I get into the job.
Sorry to prattle on... but I think you understand.
Terry
Here are some similar links:
