To upgrade or not

[Yander]

Do yourself a favor and add yanmar to your list. At least go look at them and talk to a salesperson!

They also have a "build your tractor" on their website.

 

[John_Mc]

Isn't there a brand or two out there that has figured out how to meet the emissions standards without resorting to DEF and regen cycles?

 

[scootr]

Isn't there a brand or tow out there that has figured out how to meet the emissions standards without resorting to DEF and regen cycles?

Yanmar has done that. It is one reason I liked them when shopping for 40-50 hp tractor, but I ended up buying a local barely used machine that saved me 10k and with the resale of my old machine I was just out 17k into my new Kubota.

 

[Yander]

Massey Ferguson did it with the 1700 M series. It has the Shibaura turbo engine.

 

[mo1]

To the OP, not that I would go this direction; but a 10 or 15 year old, 2wd, 30-50hp, gear tractor, open station, without a loader might be found for 6-12k; and would still be miles ahead of what your working with. Lot of times school boards, park departments, ect have these for mowing ball fields, and they might have 1000-2000 hours, but there isn't a lot of demand for them, so it pushes the price down.

Edit: some of the 70s, 80s and early 90s tractors can be hard to get parts for, so just keep that in mind. That's one thing an 8N or MF 35/135 had going for it. Heck autozone probably has everything that you can't find at a local hardware store.

It depends on exactly what '70s/'80s/'90s tractor you get. Most compacts of that era had production contracted out by the company that sold them, the only major company that sold much in the U.S. then that didn't do that was Kubota. Parts availability on rebranded third-party tractors is often pretty poor that far out from when they were made. Full-sized utility tractors of that era have pretty good parts availability for the most part as they were made by the companies that sold them and often the designs were used for years with few modifications. But, these will be at the "50 HP" end of that spectrum rather than the "30 HP" end.

Isn't there a brand or two out there that has figured out how to meet the emissions standards without resorting to DEF and regen cycles?

DEF is used on >75 HP units as the regulations for emissions tightens at >75 HP, and as far as I can tell, nobody has found out how to meet the regulations at >75 HP without the catalytic reduction (SCR) that DEF is used to accomplish. I am not aware of any unit 75 HP and less using DEF as it is not needed to meet the 75 HP and below regs.

The 26-75 HP units all have an oxidation catalyst (DOC) to meet the various non-particulate emissions regs (hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, etc.). Some use EGR and high EGTs to keep the catalyst face hot enough to burn off soot so they don't need a particulate filter (DPF) to meet particulate emissions regulations. This works unless the engine isn't run long enough or hard enough to get EGTs high enough to burn off the soot, in which case you get catalyst face plugging and the DOC has to be removed and cleaned, or replaced if it can't be cleaned. EGR has its own issues too, it cruds up the intake, reduces the amount of oxygen in the charge air (which decreases power), and either increases the temperature of the charge air (which decreases power) or requires an EGR cooler to cool the recirculated exhaust. EGR coolers can plug up or fail and cause head gasket failures, just ask anybody who owned a truck with the Navistar VT365 engine, aka the "6.oh-no," about that one.

If they do not want to use EGR or use EGR but do not want to keep EGTs persistently high, they use a DPF in front of the catalyst to trap the soot and then use a temporary increase in EGTs is used to burn off the trapped soot (regeneration.) The no EGR setup gets rid of the issues with EGR and EGR coolers, and having an engine setting that can clean out the DPF eliminates the face plugging issue, but requires some user intervention in relation to the DPF regeneration. Otherwise, the DPF will get plugged up enough that the regeneration cycle won't burn off the soot and it will require removal and cleaning, or replacement if it can't be cleaned.

There is no free lunch when dealing with the feds, unfortunately, only different kinds of bad.

 

[bigroccrek]

I have a 1952 8n I bought from a 95 year old man about 15 years ago. The man told me when I got it he had gotten tired of "little things" breaking so he recently took it to a tractor shop and had it completly "gone through" he told me the reason he was selling was "son I just cant get on and off of it anymore". I have about 4 acres of land that I currently bush hog. I was using my Pepa's old 5ft bush hog it broke, and I went off and bought a 6 foot hog, I just figured bigger was better. I also maintain the driveway with it using a 5 foot heavy duty box blade with rippers. Tractor is the orginal 6 volt system that can be kinda irritating at times, but my Pepa had a 528n and I wanted one. I wanted to get peoples thoughts on what I should do. Should I try to upgrade to a newer stronger tractor or run the old 8n with the 6 volt system. I would really appreciate everyones thoughts. Thanks in advance.

I also had an 8N (1952) and it also had a 6 volt (irritating) system. It's interesting because I bought my 8N from an older gentleman and I kept it for almost 20 years. I upgraded the 6v to a 12v system (pre-Amazon!) I believe I bought the kit from a place called Kennedy Tractors. I see now that Amazon has a complete upgrade kit for $177.....worth every penny! Eventually I upgraded to a New Holland TC29. The bucket and 4-Wheel drive were well worth the upgrade. I have now had my NH TC29 for 21 years.....never looked back!!! Good Luck!

 

[bigroccrek]

I also had an 8N (1953) and it also had a 6 volt (irritating) system. It's interesting because I bought my 8N from an older gentleman and I kept it for almost 20 years. I upgraded the 6v to a 12v system (pre-Amazon!) I believe I bought the kit from a place called Kennedy Tractors. I see now that Amazon has a complete upgrade kit for $177.....worth every penny! Eventually I upgraded to a New Holland TC29. The bucket and 4-Wheel drive were well worth the upgrade. I have now had my NH TC29 for 21 years.....never looked back!!! Good Luck!

P.S. wished I had kept the old 8N just to drive it around if nothing else, but the better half said "Why do you need 2 tractors!" Did work good for grading. If you look close at my avatar you can just see the old 8N next to teh NH.

 

[EdGooding]

P.S. but the better half said "Why do you need 2 tractors!"

When I get asked that about a tractor, gun, or fishing rod, my response is "You don't cook dinner with only one pot do you?" Then I duck and run............

 

[mo1]

When I get asked that about a tractor, gun, or fishing rod, my response is "You don't cook dinner with only one pot do you?" Then I duck and run............

That one would definitely NOT work on my wife, she prides herself on being resourceful. She has only a handful of pots and pans. We cook nearly everything we eat at home from scratch, including baking over 300 loaves of bread per year. We really only use two iron skillets, one griddle, one saucepan, one stock pot, and one Dutch oven on a very regular basis, but those get used several times per week and the 1970s two-quart saucepan gets used almost every day when I cook my morning oatmeal. We have a few other pots and pans that get used occasionally but I am sure she would not care much if they disappeared. Well, except the water bath canner, she'd want that one back.

She would say we are spoiled as the pioneers that came to this area 200 years ago probably only did have one rifle, one fishing pole, one or two pots and pans, and no tractor. And they were thankful to have that!

 

[paulsharvey]

So, how about some fairly sound thoughts on the OPs situation; figure out an amount of money you dont mind blowing on the 8N, say, $500-750, and start upgrading the things that annoy you, 6V, probably seat, dry rotted plastic on steering wheel, leaky tube, ect. Once that money is spent, see if the tractor suits your needs. If not, start shopping; But you might find that the things that bothered you are gone, and you can use and enjoy the machine you have. If you still want to upgrade, either keeping or ditching the Ford, you are then making your decision with good data.

If you do your own work and shop around $500 will fix a fair bit; if you hire stuff out; you probably would need to move into a new machine anyways.

Or, just start making a list of things that you would like to work on/fix/replace; price the parts, decide if you personally have the ability; and assign a $ value to fix those things. If it exceeds 50% of the market value of the tractor, as it sits today, then probably not worth doing.

When I worked for a county government; I saw the vehicle/equipment replacement guidelines once; below are some of the things that would trigger a replacement
any single repair of 50% the market value
lifetime total repairs equalling purchase price (I believe this included wear items, like tires, breaks, ect, not sure about PMs, like fluid changes)
I think it was 200,000 miles for light duty vehicles, or 10 years old; higher for medium and heavy duty trucks
heavy equipment it was something like 5000 hours for equipment under 100 hp and like 8000 hours for equipment over 100 hp;

 

[Williy]

Check out the Deutz tractor

FARMotion 2.9 liter, 3-cylinder diesel engine from Deutz-Fahr – 80 gross horsepower

Tier 4 emissions compliant engine with “No Maintenance” emissions system: No SCR, No DPF

diesel here is $3.54 to $3.89

willy

 

[John_Mc]

DEF is used on >75 HP units as the regulations for emissions tightens at >75 HP, and as far as I can tell, nobody has found out how to meet the regulations at >75 HP without the catalytic reduction (SCR) that DEF is used to accomplish. I am not aware of any unit 75 HP and less using DEF as it is not needed to meet the 75 HP and below regs.

The 26-75 HP units all have an oxidation catalyst (DOC) to meet the various non-particulate emissions regs (hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, etc.). Some use EGR and high EGTs to keep the catalyst face hot enough to burn off soot so they don't need a particulate filter (DPF) to meet particulate emissions regulations. This works unless the engine isn't run long enough or hard enough to get EGTs high enough to burn off the soot, in which case you get catalyst face plugging and the DOC has to be removed and cleaned, or replaced if it can't be cleaned. EGR has its own issues too, it cruds up the intake, reduces the amount of oxygen in the charge air (which decreases power), and either increases the temperature of the charge air (which decreases power) or requires an EGR cooler to cool the recirculated exhaust. EGR coolers can plug up or fail and cause head gasket failures, just ask anybody who owned a truck with the Navistar VT365 engine, aka the "6.oh-no," about that one.

If they do not want to use EGR or use EGR but do not want to keep EGTs persistently high, they use a DPF in front of the catalyst to trap the soot and then use a temporary increase in EGTs is used to burn off the trapped soot (regeneration.) The no EGR setup gets rid of the issues with EGR and EGR coolers, and having an engine setting that can clean out the DPF eliminates the face plugging issue, but requires some user intervention in relation to the DPF regeneration. Otherwise, the DPF will get plugged up enough that the regeneration cycle won't burn off the soot and it will require removal and cleaning, or replacement if it can't be cleaned.

There is no free lunch when dealing with the feds, unfortunately, only different kinds of bad.

Thanks for that explanation @mo1 . I should have said DEF/DPF, but I guess even that would not have covered all of the options. I guess that your final phrase sums up the real answer to my question: there are "only different kinds of bad".

I have an almost 22 year old New Holland TC33D that I am really pushing beyond what it is designed for (as evidenced by the cracked clutch housing mentioned in another thread - a known issue with a number of NH compact tractors of this era). It's hard to give up on it and upgrade when it runs so well and reliably. I repaired it, but am still "sort of" shopping for an upgrade.

 

[19528nford]

P.S. wished I had kept the old 8N just to drive it around if nothing else, but the better half said "Why do you need 2 tractors!" Did work good for grading. If you look close at my avatar you can just see the old 8N next to teh NH.

thanks for your response

 

[19528nford]

If you have the room I would keep the old tractor and buy a newer or new 4x4 loader tractor. You’ve had the 8n for 15 years and know the tractor pretty well and know how to maintain it so why stress about selling it, just keep it if you can afford to.
I have 3 old MF tractors and am debating the exact same thing. I really like the old tractors and their history but would also like to have a new or newer 4x4 tractor. The old tractors are great but I sometimes think it would be nice to not have to wonder if the old tractor will start when you really need it. There does always seem to be something needs fixed or attended to on an old tractor so yes, get a newer 4x4. But keep the old girl and use her once in a while. I plan on keeping 1 and also getting a 4x4 with loader.
I think in my case though, I won’t be able to part with the old tractors they’ve become family. I talk tough but when it comes time to part with them I’ll probably end up keeping 2 of the old tractors and just dedicate each to a specific job to keep them exercised and me happy. Lol. All the best with your dilemma.

sounds like we have alot in common my Pepa had a 52 8n, the one I have is not his (his was given away) but an 8n did the job for him. I think I might try to buy a 5 foot bush hog I have a 6 footer I run now,convert to 12 volt and stop worrying about it.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, I'll give an example of a compromise. Today, I saw a gas Massey Ferguson 135, in good condition, for $2500 with a 6ft bush hog included. Something like that moves you forward 30 years in technology, is dirt cheap, has every part you can imagine, readily available, and a Ton of info available.

 

[Williy]

mo1 do you add blueberries & walnuts to your
oatmeal?? Really good

willy

 

[mo1]

mo1 do you add blueberries & walnuts to your
oatmeal?? Really good

willy

Generally just a little bit of sugar, occasionally some apples or raisins.