To all TBN Members

[Muhammad]

Greetings to all members,

I just wanted to post a thread that addresses some issues that have been raised privately to me, about the "state of affairs" here at TBN.

For starters, let's remember that TBN exists as a place to obtain and share knowledge about compact tractors. It has helped hundreds of thousands of people make sound tractor buying decisions, taught "newbies" how to use their tractors, and in the process, connected people with a shared interest from all around the country (and world).

Today, TBN is a big community, with thousands of registered members posting every week. What was once a "small town" is now a big metropolis with many new faces coming, and old faces going, on an almost daily basis.

Recently, some members have expressed that the attitudes and tone of discussion is a little less friendly than it has been in the past. Some people are a little more passionate about their favorite brand, or express their opinions a little more blatantly. But please, let's keep a few things in mind:

1) Think about what you say before you say it. Respect other members as if you were talking to them face to face.

2) Be mature and avoid heated discussions. There's no reason to argue on a tractor forum!

3) Don't start controversial threads. These just get deleted, provoke other users, and contribute only negative energy to the forum. A good example of a controversial thread is, "______ is the best tractor in the world!" This is an unreasonable claim, as we all should know.

4) Remember that everybody has different needs. That is why we discuss all brands of tractors (and many other types of equipment) here. What was perfect for you may not be perfect for the next guy, and vice versa.

5) Read #1 again. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So, now that I said that, I want to thank everybody for participating and being a member of TBN. There's no reason why we can't all get along and engage in intelligent, useful discussions about tractors and related topics.

 

[browns40]

Thank you Muhammad,

I wholeheartedly agree with you... even things written jokingly, or "in jest" don't have expression, tone of voice, or the other non-verbal cues that face to face conversation allows people to "joke around" with.

Words by themselves mean different things to different people--how many ways can you say and interpret: "Can I help you?"...

This site gave me valuable insight to making a CUT purchase (thanks again!), because there is so much experience here... I hope that the veterans on here, who are bringing the most valuable information (there is no substitute for experience) are not run off... other people sure could benefit from the knowledge they possess, just as I, and many, many others have.

Point well written and well-taken.

 

[beenthere]

Great post.
I was going to suggest adopting the Read #1 again. as a theme, and list it as a "related link" at the top, to the left of the "google ad" link. Then when someone's attention is warranted, we could reply with a "please refer to Read #1 again. " comment.

However, if the plan is to list the Forum Rules as are listed on this 'page', I think that will be good for the forum as well.

 

[odleefs]

The above forum rules are great! Now only if the offenders would read them . . . /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve
P.S. Keep up the good work and improvements - we can't wait for the Toolcat forum!!

 

[Big_Daddy]

Thanks for the reminder. I feel a little less tense after reading the rules again. But listen Muhammad, there's one word that causes problems no matter how it's used and that's "Toolcat".

The mere mention of the word can cause a cat fight. We feel we are nomads with no place to go. We send each other personal messages to avoid fights. We Have a Dream..... that one day you will find it in your heart to build us a home of our own. Please do it soon.....It's cold out here! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks

 

[Muhammad]

Don't worry... we'll be opening the Toolcat forum soon.

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> For starters, let's remember that TBN exists as a place to obtain and share knowledge about compact tractors. It has helped hundreds of thousands of people make sound tractor buying decisions, taught "newbies" how to use their tractors, and in the process, connected people with a shared interest from all around the country (and world). </font>

Absolutely! I came to TBN with lots of questions, and received answers to all of them while making several good friends during the past few years.

<font color="blue"> Today, TBN is a big community, with thousands of registered members posting every week. What was once a "small town" is now a big metropolis with many new faces coming, and old faces going, on an almost daily basis.

Recently, some members have expressed that the attitudes and tone of discussion is a little less friendly than it has been in the past. </font>

I liken the "old" TBN to a small town, where you can go to the hardware store, and everyone knows your name, and if you ask a question, they walk over to the shelf and hand you the right answer.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, TBN has grown by leaps and bounds. The same members who have been around for a long time were excited to see the forum they were taking part in growing so quickly are now disappointed to see it grow "too large".

Now, instead of the small town hardware store, to some it may feel more like a large box store, where you wander the aisles, passing one unfriendly associate after another before maybe finding someone to help you. The number of helpful folks remains the same, but seems dwarfed by the other groups.

There are several longtime members who have left during the past few months. Many of these folks have 2000, 4000, and even over 6000 posts. They have passed along volumes of valuable information to the other members over the years and it is sad to see them leave. Some of these members have bowed out gracefully, never to be heard from again. Others have privately tried to raise issues, only to leave frustrated. Another group has publicly brought up why they are unhappy with the direction of TBN, only to be banned from the forum. Each of these members care deeply about the TBN community and they have all expressed their frustrations in their own ways.

This is MY opinion only, but TBN is no longer a fun place to be for me. It is still a great place to have tractor related questions answered, but is not the friendly community it once was. The lack of consistency of enforcement of what can and can't be posted has hit a sore spot with me. I still read the forums daily, as I am always eager to learn more, but I am taking a break from posting for the time being. I will be back when it feels fun once again, at which time I hope I am welcomed back. In the meantime, I wish everyone well here at TBN!

Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
AndyM

 

[db2]

This forum and it's participants are the most helpful and friendly of any forum that I have participated in. A few "odd" posts appear but it is still a great place.

Just the same.......thanks for the reminder.

 

[Rolando]

I just want to add my voice of appreciation for this forum. While it may have grown greatly, I still find it a friendly and helpful place to discuss questions and opinions. And to this day I still marvel at the powerful user interface that the forum hosts have created. Look around and try to find another venue where you can post comments and questions, respond to those while being able to upload images, link to related sites, privately communicate with other members, and get reviews and advertise or publish classifieds!

I personally haven't been exposed to the concerns some have expressed, but everyone can always moderate their emotions and others can have some tolerance for the occasional minor excess. After all, we're all talking about a subject we love, it just comes in different colors. So let's take it easy and enjoy the multitude of experience and opinions to be found and explored in this great forum.

 

[Muhammad]

Andy,

It's tough to go into downtown LA and ask that it be a small town again. But we have talked (admins) about what we can do to recreate that feeling. We have some ideas that haven't been completely elaborated yet, but do have promise.

Regarding the most recent bans, yes, four members were banned (one of whom was reinstated) for either abusing the PM system to recruit members to join another forum, OR for intentionally "trolling" (posting with the intention to contribute nothing of value to the forum). I don't care how many posts somebody has---when they declare that they are nothing more than a troll to TBN, this person does not, in my mind, "care deeply about the TBN community." And I, as the administrator of the forum, have the responsibility to remove troublemakers.

It doesn't really serve any purpose to discuss the specific reasons why specific members were banned, but I believe that my actions are fair and reasonable. As I mentioned, I even reinstated one member (and offered to reinstate another) who meant no harm in his actions.

But as for the others who have left (or been banned)... if they want to be intelligent, mature contributors to the community, then of course they are welcome. But if they want to make it their primary focus to criticize our volunteer moderators, get involved in petty disputes (or ongoing battles), waste everybody's time with TBN doomsday debates, or just generally play by their own rules, well, I can't say that those are our most welcome members.

Since the very early days of TBN, we have had members who didn't like the fact that there is a hierarchy of authority here. And what is often incorrectly presumed is that that I (or any of the moderators) enjoy removing posts, or are on some sort of power trip. I think people may perceive it to be that way if they don't like the fact that there are rules here, and a few people have the responsibility of enforcing the rules for the purpose of maintaining order.

But in my ideal world, we wouldn't ever have to delete any posts or ban any users, and everybody on TBN (and the entire world while we're at it) would get along great and never ague about anything. Unfortunately, that's not the case. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Spiffy]

I see the rules stated when posting too. Nice touch. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<font color="blue">5) Read #1 again. </font> Perfect! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[odleefs]

<font color="red"> we'll be opening the Toolcat forum soon </font>
THANKS MUHAMMAD!
Steve

 

[DocHeb]

johnday has posted on CountrybyNet inquiring as to why he has been blocked out of TBN. In general I have found him to be a pleasant and collegial poster.

 

[Hakim]

DocHeb,

Just as a reminder of our policies, we do not discuss, explain or justify moderator actions in public. If you have a question about such issues, PM Muhammad.

From our Terms of Service (virtually every online forum has similar policies, by the way):

"TractorByNet.com reserves the right for any reason to remove without notice any contents of the Forums received from users, including without limitation discussion forum postings. TractorByNet.com reserves the right to deny in its sole discretion any user access to this Web site or any portion thereof without notice."

 

[DocHeb]

Not complaining about your policy - it is your show. I posted this because johnday had stated on CBN that he inquired through PM to both Muhammad and MikePA without success. Would you just cut somebody off without warning them about their behavior? If so, am I coming close just for inquiring?

 

[rox]

Muhammad

Many thanks for this forum. I don't know what got into me, one night I psoted this really politaccly controversial topic. After I did it I regretted it. I was so glad it got pulled. What was even better I was not banned for life or anything like that. I stumbled across some thread which I cna't find again, about people being sad that some old posters are no longer posting.

I felt better reading that even moderators get their posts removed now and then. So I didn't feel quite so bad about my stupid mistake.

This forum has been a huge help to us after purchasing ourolive farm. I am just recently starting to see the other areas like Rural Living and such. I am sorry that sometimes I posted in Owning and Operating when really my comments didn't belong there, they belonged in a different section. I see now where things are supposed to go.

Again many thanks, to you and everyone who posts. Truly in this place I am receving more than I give.

 

[Muhammad]

<font color="blue">I posted this because johnday had stated on CBN that he inquired through PM to both Muhammad and MikePA without success.</font>

I've exchanged several PMs with JohnDay on CBN over the past couple of days.

<font color="blue">Would you just cut somebody off without warning them about their behavior?</font>

Not usually, but certain circumstances call for more swift action than others.

Please, let's not discuss moderator actions in public. If those who have been banned want to e-mail me, that's fine. But I won't be commenting publicly about it any longer, and ask that the topic be dropped in this thread.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I grew up in a small town. (Actually, just outside of a small town) I look back longingly from time to time, at what used to be. It was a wonderful place to grow up. I don't see it as the same place nowdays.

This site is compared to a small town that "grew up". Many look back at what once was, with fond memories. And that's a good thing.

The thing is, change is inevitable. Like the old saying goes, "You can't stand in the way of progress".

Sometimes the best we can do is to make sure that change is POSITIVE, and be happy with that.

TBN won't ever be what it was in it's infancy. (NO, I wasn't around back then, but I'd say it's a safe bet it won't go backwards)

This is without a doubt, the finest website I visit. I feel honored to be allowed to visit. I also feel it's my obligation to FOLLOW THE RULES, RESPECT OTHERS, and to MAKE A POSITIVE INFLUENCE whenever possible.

My father always told me that there would be times when you KNEW you were right, and you KNEW the other person was wrong, but you would have to be satisfied in just knowing that, and not insist on PROVING that. (You can't win all your debates/arguenments/fights in life)

Finally, as mature, inteligent adults, we should all grow and learn from the recent "events" on TBN. If nothing else, learn how NOT to act. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks Muhammad and all the rest of the crew at TBN.

You have my word I'll live by the rules.

 

[jmc]

Two points:

#1 I cannot recall any unmoderated message board that has not degenerated to the online equivalent of a Junior High locker room. You may drive off some good posters by moderating, but at least there won't be a mass exodus as the board becomes a free-for-all.

#2 Considering the huge and growing expense they have in developing this board, I would error on the strict side to avoid #1.

John