tile questions

[forgeblast]

Hi all I have done tile before, but its been a few years and products change.
We did a pretty big remodel, moved the kitchen to our large mudroom and the mud room to our small kitchen.
I am planning on doing a brick look tile herring bone pattern ceramic tile.
I have 2x10 joists on 16'' spacing with 3/4 ply on top.
The only issue here is it was nailed in not screwed.
So I will screw and glue (from the basement) before I put any tile down.
I ran the deflection calculator at J Bridge and came out fine for tile or natural stone.
I am still in the process of ripping off the 1/4'' luan that is nailed every 3'' that held parquet flooring used a tile shark that was a fun way to rip up that flooring.
Once that is done my plan is to use cement backer board. Is there one that is recommended over the other. I do not have the $$ to do ditra.
What about thinset. I am using an abbey brick product and cannot find any info on what they recommend other then 3/8 grout spacing.
Ill try to get a few pics when I can. thanks!!
Once that is done I plan on building a few shelves and a bench or two in there.

 

[oosik]

Sounds like you are all prepared for the job. We put unglazed quarry tile in our kitchen. Went down great - then we got to the grout. Both the wife and I agreed that a dark grout would look nice against the brick red quarry tile. Bottom line - the dark grout stained the quarry tile and we spent a month and a half - washing, scrubbing, brushing, etc, etc. Finally got it to looking nice. The salesman told us when we went back to see him - - OH, you should have put a sealer on the unglazed quarry tile BEFORE you grouted it. Live and learn.

Have fun.......

 

[kenmac]

I recently did tile in one of my bathrooms. With the advice of the guy at HD, I used per mixed thinset. It was a bad decision. the premixed thinset didn't cure and the tiles came lose.
I had to remove all the tiles and start over. I mixed the thinset out of a bag and had no more issues with the tiles coming lose

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

The regular 1/2" 'hardibacker' cement board would be fine as a substrate over the 3/4 ply. The plywood being nailed down shouldn't be any problem. Screw the hardibacker down. I had a 8x12 area of tile that was on only 1/4" hardibacker that was screwed down over nailed plywood. No cracks or problems for 15 years. When I pulled it all up, took almost a day and a half to get it all up...it didn't want to come up. Had to use an air chisel and even then, came up in small pieces.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

As kenmac said, DON'T use the premixed thin set. Get the 'polymer fortified' mix in a bag.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm a big fan of James Hardie products. One of the reasons I like them is that they explain how to install their products in an easy to read format on their website.

I copy and pasted this from their page at https://www.jameshardie.com/d2w/installation/hardiebacker-us-en.pdf

Floor Installation
(Interior Application Only)
We recommend 1/4” HardieBacker®
board for floor applications, unless 1/2”
thickness is needed for transition.
1 | Ensure subfloor is structurally
sound
On existing structures:
• Ensure subfloor is not damaged.
Replace any loose, warped, uneven or
damaged sections of floor.
• Make certain subfloor is a clean and flat surface.
For all floors:
• Use minimum 5/8 exterior grade plywood or 23/32 OSB with Exposure 1
classification or better, complying with local building codes and ANSI A108.11.
• Joist spacing not to exceed 24” on center.
• The floor must be engineered not to exceed the L/360 deflection criteria (L/720 for
natural stone), including live and dead design loads, for the specific joist spacing used.
2 | Determine layout of HardieBacker® cement board
• Stagger all HardieBacker® cement board joints. Do not align with subfloor joints.
• Never allow all four corners of boards to meet at one point.
• We recommend an 1/8” gap
between board edges.
• Keep sheet edges 1/8” back from
walls and cabinet bases.
• Score and snap boards to required
sizes and make necessary cutouts.
3 | Attach HardieBacker cement board to subfloor
• Apply a supporting bed of mortar or modified thinset to subfloor using a 1/4”
square-notched trowel.
• Embed HardieBacker cement board firmly and evenly in the wet mortar.
• Use the fastener pattern as a guide. Fasten HardieBacker cement board with
specified nails or screws (as listed in “Materials Required”) every 8” over the entire
surface. Keep fasteners between 3/8" and 3/4" from board edges and 2" from
board corners.
• Set fastener heads flush with the surface without overdriving.
4 | Tape joints prior to tiling
• Prior to setting the tile, fill all joints with
the same mortar used to set the tiles.
• Embed 2” wide high-strength alkaliresistant
glass fiber tape in the mortar
and level.

 

[forgeblast]

As kenmac said, DON'T use the premixed thin set. Get the 'polymer fortified' mix in a bag.

thank you!! I was thinking since I have the space between the floor and wall to use 1/2'' Cement board.
I will look at the polymer fortified. I would rather mix it myself.
I have tile and stone sealer from when I did a field-stone project. I will make sure I put that on the tiles to keep it from staining, (good call!!)

 

[forgeblast]

Eddie thank you!! I appreciate it! One question....
When they say they recommend an 1/8' gap between board edges what does this mean. Is it sides and ends? I am assuming that its for expansion, then the tape would go over the joints to keep them "clean" to allow expansion.
Thanks I know you do a lot of tile work and I appreciate the help!

 

[EddieWalker]

As for thinset, Ardex is probably the best of the best right now. You'll have to go to a tile supply shop to get it. But for what you are doing, I'd use the Versa Bond thinset sold at Home Depot. Probably just the basic grey for around $15 a sack. Your tile should say on the box what size trowel to use. Just follow the instruction and keep your thinset wet. Do not put out too much thinset, or it will start to dry on you and you will end up with tiles that do not adhere, and make that hollow sound. I never put out more then two square feet at a time, and most of the time I'm making too many cuts to spread any at all, so I back butter each tile and install them that way.

Home Depot also sells PolyBlend grout, which is good stuff. Be sure to get the sanded and keep it wet too. For bigger grout joints, I like a stiffer float. Get sponges designed for grout, they make a difference!!! Just don't use too heavy of a hand with the sponge,that's what gives you your finished look. Push too hard and you take away too much grount.

Sealer is actually a catalyst that hardens your grout. They are all about the same, just don't expect any of them to stop any serious staining. If there is a chance of staining, go darker in grout color.

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie thank you!! I appreciate it! One question....
When they say they recommend an 1/8' gap between board edges what does this mean. Is it sides and ends? I am assuming that its for expansion, then the tape would go over the joints to keep them "clean" to allow expansion.
Thanks I know you do a lot of tile work and I appreciate the help!

That is to deal with the flex in your floor. Even if you do not feel it, there is always going to be some movement. That gap allows the floor to move just a bit, and not bind up the backer board. Floating floors do the same thing around the perimeter. If something moves, it needs space for that movement. So yes to sides and ends, and yes to keeping the joints clean.

If you cannot find the special fiberglass tape for your joints, look in the sheetrock area. They have it there in the stores I go to. It will have bigger gaps in it, and it's kind of a cream color.

 

[forgeblast]

Thank you all, Have a good handle on it now. I just need to get the tile before they sell out of it again....

 

[sdquick]

For my next tile job I would use one of these systems. I have heard very good things about them. They are available at Home Depot or Amazon

Perfect Level Master

Peygran Tile Leveling System

Only doing tile occasionally I usually remember all my tricks and techniques by the time I am finishing a job. I think these systems would help make the job great start to finish.

 

[kcflhrc]

My first tile project, a master bath remodel, will be my last tile project. Bought a high end saw, all the necessary tools and man, am I glad that's over. Never again. Sold the saw, all of the tools and will never do a tile project again.

 

[oosik]

I HEAR YOU, kcflhrc. Check post #2, this thread. The kitchen floor tile job was done when we built our house here in '82. The floor tile job is still as good as the day we finally finished removing the chocolate grout stain from all the tile - BUT - I've NEVER done another tile job and I, like you, never will. I, quite honestly, thought we were never going to get the chocolate grout stain off the pretty Roman red unglazed quarry tile. I was so dam mad at myself - I came close to rupturing a major artery.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Hah, me too. Finished remodeling the two bathrooms in the Sacramento place with tile surrounds, floors etc. Then sold my tile saw, told me wife I am retiring from tile work.

I use the Hardie backer board too and follow their directions exactly. Same with Polyblend products. Can't go wrong.

 

[downsizingnow48]

deleted

 

[forgeblast]

Called Home Depot on monday asking if they had more of the tile (website says they have 13 boxes I need 26). I was told they have a pallet in the back no worries the website it wrong. Called today to place the order and have them put it on a pallet and wow no magical pallet of tile. We only have whats online. No we do not ship from other stores to our store.....So I plan on returning the tile I bought and go looking at tile places around us. Big fail home depot!

 

[EddieWalker]

Ive had to go to three different Home Depots to get enough tile to do a job. Its faster then waiting for it from a flooring store that never has anything in stock.

 

[tractorshopper]

I personally like to work with 1/2" Durock rather than 1/2" Hardee, but that's primarily because it is easier to make cuts. Hardee is a better product, but will ruin knives, multi-master blades, etc, very quickly whereas the durock cuts more like sheetrock and even a very dull multi-tool blade will easily zip through it.

That said, I like versabond mortar as others have mentioned and never never use premix. i did one time for a small job i didn't want to set everything up for and it did not cure and I had to start from scratch and redo it.

For grout, I've learned over the years to use the darker shade of whatever matching color I can to show less staining over time. The lighter grouts show everything. Yes, even if they are sealed.

 

[hawkeye08]

One of my daughters did some tile work on their remodel before they sold their house.. not too bad. They are getting ready to build and staying with a friend. Friend won't accept any rent, but my daughter noticed the master shower needed work. She offered to remodel it and found new faucet and tiles for great price.. it turned out really good, but she would not make money if she did it for a living. It took a couple weeks from start to finish, nothing fancy.

That perfect level system looks nice, wish I had it when I did the tile on kitchen island... it was a pain to get the large tiles all nice and flat.