Tier 4 issues

[bgd8953]

Disappointed in the tier 4 engine in the XR4046, a performance issue that was not something I knew about when I purchased 7 mos ago. When running the PTO at 540, the engine runs at 2400rpms, when then regen starts, the engine power is reduced by 50% or limited to 1800rpms, in my case the engine quit, and would not start for quite some time. I had to let it sit, and when I finally got it started, I had to let it idle for 40 mins and let it go through the regen cycle, and I could perform no work during this period. Kinda tough when you have a PTO powered implement on it. I would not recommend this if your using it for farming where your rpms are above 1800rpms for an extended period of time. The unit is in with the dealer for not only this, but steering hyraulic groaning, and a surging trottle. I like the build of the LS, and probably need to step up to a higher HP tractor, in a tier 3 configuration. I'm hoping to work this out with the dealer.

 

[eth555]

Is this normal operation for the regen cycle on LS tractors? With my NH I have been using my discbine cutting hay on hills at PTO RPM and have gone through regens before with no noticeable decrease in power. I hope the dealer can sort this out for you.

 

[EKUgrad]

yeah, something about that does not sound right -- pretty sure that is not the way that works by design. I hope they get that figured out for you too.

 

[George2615]

It is normal depending on how much soot buildup there is in the DPF. If the soot in the DPF is anywhere between 60-100% it goes in regen mode and work or use of the tractor can be continued.

When the soot level exceeds that point and is between 100-140% it continues regen but also the engine derates 50% and RPM is limited to 1800 RPM. At this point you have to stop work and let the regeneration process complete.

If the soot level exceeds 140% the engine will shut down and you may require the dealer to fix it.

Ive never experienced the 100-140% (or over 140%) soot load with RPM reduction but have gone through many normal regen cycles with no problem.

This is just my opinion but I believe the quality of the fuel used affects the amount of soot buildup. I have always used an additive (Power Service w/ cetane booster) in my fuel. I don't know if that has kept my soot levels below 100%, fuel quality or I'm just not working the machine hard enough. Ask your dealer if a cetane booster additive would help.
Your surging throttle makes me think it may be a fuel related issue. May be poor quality, low cetane, moisture in fuel, or something else. Grasping at straws here just throwing out some ideas.

I've run a PTO flail mower for 4-5 hours and went into regen during that time without slowing down.

 

[Bluesteel]

I have over 225 hrs and mine has never reduced power when in regen. The only way I know it is in regen mode are the dash lights. RPMs have never went down, ever.

 

[Bluesteel]

I will add I remember my dealer said there were some throttle issues. Maybe a throttle control sensor?. He said mine had already been replaced before I purchased it. I think LS had a bulletin/recall on it. May want to ask about that.

 

[bgd8953]

Is this normal operation for the regen cycle on LS tractors? With my NH I have been using my discbine cutting hay on hills at PTO RPM and have gone through regens before with no noticeable decrease in power. I hope the dealer can sort this out for you.

I hope he can figure it also, I really do like the tractor. But it is disappointing, I never had a tractor that needed to take a break.

 

[Bota4me]

I hope i dont offend you guys but....
This tier 4 is a bunch of crap! I bought my bx25 new and if i upgrade someday i will have to find a used tractor to avoid tier4.. Who would want a complicated workhorse? Diesels should be simple and reliable, and with these new probs popping up how are they gonna run in 10 years from now?? Sorry for the rant lol

 

[bgd8953]

One of the first things the dealer asked me was about the fuel, I use off road diesel from a local chain store, which has a pretty good turn over on their fuel, he didn't feel that would be the issue. On his initial assesment, the tractor had only a 2% soot level when they hooked it up to the computer. The first time this happened to me, I was just driving it to another farm, and it went into the 50% power limit mode, which made it a longer than usual ride. Also, I had never seen the engine warning indicator come on with the regen lights as it did on what was supposed to be a short ride. This last episode, all of the lights came on, and it shut off, and it would not restart for a while, but finally did and I let it sit in the regen mode, on the side of a hill with the brush hog. When I spoke to the dealer last week, he said possibly I was getting false indications that it was regenerating normally, and in fact it wasn't. A complicated fix I'm sure, with the engine surging included. It's good to hear that you've run yours at a high rpm for an extended period and it went into regen without issue, hopefully mine can get resolved, I realy do like the LS tractor. Reminising, I really do miss the simplicity of the older tractors.

 

[bgd8953]

Will do, thanks

 

[bgd8953]

No offense taken, you should have heard me stuck on the side of the hill with a brush hog attached with my new dead tractor. Now my neighbors are calling it a union tractor, cause it needs to take a break. I just hope I get the chance to pull them out of something some day.

 

[Bota4me]

No offense taken, you should have heard me stuck on the side of the hill with a brush hog attached with my new dead tractor. Now my neighbors are calling it a union tractor, cause it needs to take a break. I just hope I get the chance to pull them out of something some day.

yes, i hope everything turns out ok for you
I would have been pretty PO also... I believe you should get what you pay for and its not always the case.... Good luck!

 

[fixitman123]

Mine had the surging throttle and was fixed by the dealer. They replaced a solenoid in the injector pump if I understood correctly. Kind of worries me what issues we'll face with the dpf down the road. Maybe someone will figure a way to gut it and bypass regen modes.

 

[Woodshaver]

These Tier 4 designs do not thrill anyone but is a fact of life going forward. Reduce power mode is due to the DPF pressures have a high difference on the input and output. Unless the fuel was just really horrible doubt that would be the problem on a new unit. Most likely a problem with the sensors or input to the DPF controller. I have had a least 15 regens on the 4046H with no problems and no reduced power mode, running high loads will help the DPF will help keep in clean but should not be absolutely required as the unit will inject fuel to burn off particulates. Dealer should be able fix. A delete kit for the future may be nice!

 

[bgd8953]

Got a call from my dealer, great folks to work with by the way. They replaced a solenoid in the injector which has fixed the surging, and worked on the electrical grounds which may have caused some of the DPF issues. Apparently too much paint on the frame has caused issues like this in the past. I still would like to get out of this tier 4 dilemma, not real confident in it at this point. If I keep it, I'll be looking for ways to bypass it. Any ideas out there? A delete kit, I'm all for.

 

[Woodshaver]

I'm working with guys that have been designing DPF systems for our power generation application using about the same size diesel engines at work. These things will not increase the reliability of engine system in regards to the electronics and DPF component. Sensors, electronic controllers, wiring, DPF itself with special metals etc. All of this will just complicate an engine system, hopefully the engineers at Shibaura did a good job qualifying all the components and have quality suppliers. The DPF will have a max life of 5000hrs. if we are lucky. By the way, the new high pressure fuel rail system regens less but comes with its own set of problems/costs and still has a DPF. Thank California for all this nonsense.

 

[Maxify55]

I never, ever, change my settings. Oh, maybe, I'll bump the RPMs a bit to help it along its business. I don't even care if it's in regen when I'm done with it. I shut it down and walk away. It can catch back up when I come back out.
Love that tractor!

PS: it had a problem early on with a bared and shorted wired to the cruise control module but since then it's been a veritable rock.

95* heat, mowing with A/C kicking and not a whimper. They built the cooling system to handle the Florida heat.

 

[Woodshaver]

If everything works as planned with the Tier 4 the regen should be seemless to us. I have not experience any problems with it to this point on the XR40406H either, Hope it says that way not trying to be a naysayer, I have had good experience at 80hrs working the tractor at many different operating points. Like everything to this point.

 

[CPSO15]

How long should regen mode take.

 

[Woodshaver]

On the 4046H I found most regens are about 15-20 minutes