The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

[IslandTractor]

I.T I understand what your getting at I truly do and on many levels your correct.
HOWEVER this is the first 3016 grapple video I've seen. It's the same tractor I have. I to am a NOOB operator of both a tractor and eventually a grapple. I've watched that video 5 times now I've learned several things from it.
Some being I think the duel lid is two slow on that unit so something I too could have an issue with but he also didn't have the tractor rippems up that high so verdict unknown. It it's swayed me to a single lid to be on the safe side.
It looks like he is using a diverter valve and not a true 3rd function but I could be wrong. This is something I was considering in trying to cut initial cost, 3rd function is 800+$ a diverter valve is 300~$. Seeing that I now know that I'd be unhappy with a diverter setup. There are more things I noticed as well but won't get into those.
I like that EA is keeping its roots real and not turning their noses up at Noobs like him OR MYSELF.
So thanks for the video EA

Nothing at all wrong with noobies. EA probably sells 90% of their CUT grapples to noobs because very few people ever buy more than one and CUT owners in general don't have much opportunity to practice grappling prior to owning one themselves.

To understand my reaction to that video you need to go look at some of the EA produced videos with Ted and Peanut doing the narration and operating. Much better education and discussion. Watching the recent non EA video can be helpful but just ain't of the same caliber as EA's own productions. No harm in sharing those other videos but as I have pointed out, it would help if they gave a little context when posting non EA videos. Youtube is so full of crap that some curating and commentary would be a definite plus.

Regarding diverter valve versus third function versus just using rear remotes, I have used both diverter and rear remotes on different tractors. i found the rear remotes perfectly useful and in many ways preferred them to a diverter set up. Depends on where the rear remote lever is but if it is within easy reach from the FEL then using rear remotes is as simple as driving a stick shift. No harm in starting off with rear remotes as all it takes is some hose and fittings, both of which can be repurposed to a diverter or third function set up if you decide to upgrade.

 

[Laderbuilt]

Nothing at all wrong with noobies. EA probably sells 90% of their CUT grapples to noobs because very few people ever buy more than one and CUT owners in general don't have much opportunity to practice grappling prior to owning one themselves.

To understand my reaction to that video you need to go look at some of the EA produced videos with Ted and Peanut doing the narration and operating. Much better education and discussion. Watching the recent non EA video can be helpful but just ain't of the same caliber as EA's own productions. No harm in sharing those other videos but as I have pointed out, it would help if they gave a little context when posting non EA videos. Youtube is so full of crap that some curating and commentary would be a definite plus.

Regarding diverter valve versus third function versus just using rear remotes, I have used both diverter and rear remotes on different tractors. i found the rear remotes perfectly useful and in many ways preferred them to a diverter set up. Depends on where the rear remote lever is but if it is within easy reach from the FEL then using rear remotes is as simple as driving a stick shift. No harm in starting off with rear remotes as all it takes is some hose and fittings, both of which can be repurposed to a diverter or third function set up if you decide to upgrade.

Agreed I've watched EaA produced content on the grapples and they are much better in amount And type of info that's in it. I liked the one of Ted showing what NOT TO DO. Reminded me of my parents, do as I say not as I do LOL. As for this video it hit home a bit more then EA's for me

I don't think I'd enjoy using rear remotes for my grapple as that function control is on the right side next to my hip and for what my plans are I'd be switching hands to much.

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't think I'd enjoy using rear remotes for my grapple as that function control is on the right side next to my hip and for what my plans are I'd be switching hands to much.

That's exactly where the rear remote control lever was on my CK20 and I loved it. I found that with just a bit of practice it became as natural as shifting a four on the floor tranny. I had to look for the first day but after that it was muscle memory and quite natural.

One reason I liked it was that I didn't have the "confusion" that sometimes occurs when using a diverter. As you know on a diverter valve you press a button and then move the joystick to control the grapple. I still find myself getting out of synch at times especially when working quickly and accidentally opening the grapple when I really wanted to curl simply because I pushed the button at the wrong time. Not the end of the world but that never happens with rear remotes because your hand is temporarily off the FEL joystick when opening/closing the grapple.

 

[Sysop]

The other thing between the full 3rd function and a diverter (or rear ports) that I don't see mentioned often is that an electric 3rd function is full-open or no-flow. There is no way to feather the 3rd function. You hit the button and the valve opens all the way up and the 3rd function uses 100% of whatever flow comes through the power beyond of the loader valve. With a diverter, or even the rear ports, you can use the lever to gradually change the flow to gently clamp down on something.

All methods have their benefits and drawbacks. That's why the options exist. It's not about what costs the least, it's about what will do the job the best.

 

[k0ua]

The other thing between the full 3rd function and a diverter (or rear ports) that I don't see mentioned often is that an electric 3rd function is full-open or no-flow. There is no way to feather the 3rd function. You hit the button and the valve opens all the way up and the 3rd function uses 100% of whatever flow comes through the power beyond of the loader valve. With a diverter, or even the rear ports, you can use the lever to gradually change the flow to gently clamp down on something.

All methods have their benefits and drawbacks. That's why the options exist. It's not about what costs the least, it's about what will do the job the best.

What you just pointed out about feathering the flow (and the cost) is what drove me to using my rear remote. I have not wanted either the diverter or the 3rd function. And is is not just about the money. I am very pleased with the way my rear remote lever is so handy to use ( I made it handier) that I have not wanted more. But different strokes for different folks. Get what floats your boat. BUT I don't understand how a diverter could be slower closing than a 3rd function setup at all. After all the FEL control gets first crack at the flow from the pump and anything left over from the FEL flows out the power beyond port which would feed a 3rd function valve. Just don't see how a diverter could be slower from a flow rate standpoint.

My rear remote setup is so fast I can slam the lid from full open to full shut and the upper lid teeth will hit with a bang in way less than a second. Or I can feather it shut slowly. I did run 1/2 inch hoses up front, so the flow rate is faster than if I had run the much easier to bend 3/8 hoses or even 1/4 inch hoses that some use. With my 9+ gallon a minute flow from the rear remotes, the 1/2 inch hoses, and the relatively small single cylinder on the lid, Yeah it comes down with a bang.

 

[Sysop]

BUT I don't understand how a diverter could be slower closing than a 3rd function setup at all.

Diverter is diverting a function of the valve (curl or lift) and is dependent on how far you move the lever for the amount of flow/speed/pressure you get. If you don't move the lever much, it is slower than the full-flow of an electric 3rd function.

 

[rustyshakelford]

OK, Kellyanne, I understand. Everything here is perfect. Let me just give a slightly divergent opinion, that if you step back for a moment, you will realize is well intentioned.

You guys use this thread as a marketing tool pure and simple. Many potential grapple purchasers are likely to come across this thread because you assiduously work to keep it going. Well done. Ted should be pleased with your efforts. There is a difference however between simply keeping the thread as a not so subtle advertisement and having it serve as a focal point for discussion and education about grapples. When you post a video knowing that a bunch of non grapple owners are going to see it, it would help if you provided some context rather than just "wow, look at what this guy does with his beautiful new EA grapple". Case in point: the video under discussion is fine as an example of a new grapple user starting to learn how to use it. It should be labelled or introduced as such. It isn't a particularly good example of what EA usually posts with Ted giving fairly detailed discussion of the matter aimed directly at a potential new grapple purchaser. Again, nothing wrong with showing a new guy learning to use a grapple but not necessarily something you want to show to another new guy who has no context.

You should wonder why Ford doesn't show videos of newly licensed teenagers driving Mustangs or why Chevy doesn't have little old ladies driving to the grocery store in their pickups. Post videos that show how it should be done not just any old bandwidth hogging baloney that someone decides to send you. A little curating would be helpful. If you are going to post a video make sure it accurately represents what you are selling. You are selling grapples and other implements to tractor owners who have come to respect EA videos as educational tools worth learning from. The video under discussion doesn't meet those standards. If it was simply introduced as "hey, here's a guy using a grapple for the first time" that would provide the necessary context. Even better would be to point out what the guy does right (no major safety issues etc) and wrong.

Bottom line: TBN is primarily an educational forum for tractor owners not simply a marketing tool where keeping the topic at the top of the current threads is a major goal. Let's keep it that way. It can work both ways for EA if you don't forget the education/discussion part of the equation.

The fact everything attachments is a paid sponsor allows them to turn a thread into a marketing tool. It's the sponsors contributions that allow you to go to a thread and post all kinds of stuff. Since it is their thread, I think they are more than tolerable of your ongoing criticism....way more than I would be for sure.

Why don't you start your own thread to voice your personal opinions about single lid small grapples and let the EA team do what they are doing and that's provide a fantastic product and great customer service in their own thread that they PAID FOR?


Brett

 

[IslandTractor]

The fact everything attachments is a paid sponsor allows them to turn a thread into a marketing tool. It's the sponsors contributions that allow you to go to a thread and post all kinds of stuff. Since it is their thread, I think they are more than tolerable of your ongoing criticism....way more than I would be for sure.

Why don't you start your own thread to voice your personal opinions about single lid small grapples and let the EA team do what they are doing and that's provide a fantastic product and great customer service in their own thread that they PAID FOR?


Brett

1) This is a discussion FORUM. If EA wants to buy an ad that they have complete control over they can do that in other places on the TBN website.

2) Critical discussion actually helps EA. Nobody is using this thread to chant "EA sucks". Quite the opposite.

3) One of EA's biggest selling grapples is their compact grapple for 35hp and smaller CUTs. They only decided to make that grapple after someone on TBN harangued them to do so. EA benefits from the back and forth banter here.

4) Shutting down or disparaging dissent isn't good for EA, TBN or the USA.

 

[lostcreekranch]

The other thing between the full 3rd function and a diverter (or rear ports) that I don't see mentioned often is that an electric 3rd function is full-open or no-flow. There is no way to feather the 3rd function. You hit the button and the valve opens all the way up and the 3rd function uses 100% of whatever flow comes through the power beyond of the loader valve. With a diverter, or even the rear ports, you can use the lever to gradually change the flow to gently clamp down on something.

All methods have their benefits and drawbacks. That's why the options exist. It's not about what costs the least, it's about what will do the job the best.

I disagree with your statement that 3rd function is either open or closed? I have two tractors, 100 HP and 50 HP, with grapples and WR Long 3rd function kits on both. I can stop lids anywhere I want between full open and full close. The hydraulic fluid flow rate determines speed of opening or closing.

Others stated that they want very fast speed so they can "bang" their lid closed? Why? Makes no sense, IMHO?

 

[IslandTractor]

I disagree with your statement that 3rd function is either open or closed? I have two tractors, 100 HP and 50 HP, with grapples and WR Long 3rd function kits on both. I can stop lids anywhere I want between full open and full close. The hydraulic fluid flow rate determines speed of opening or closing.

Others stated that they want very fast speed so they can "bang" their lid closed? Why? Makes no sense, IMHO?

Makes it easier to catch deer before they can run away. :thumbsup: