Taking the Welder Plunge

[Berniep]

I think that the plug on your welder is rated for more amps than the outlet in the first picture, Or maybe it's the other way around. Anyway A lot of people have that model welder wired up to the outlet in the first picture with no problems. Tractor supply has the outlets in your pictures and I am going this afternoon and I will see what they are rated for. I wired my welders to the one in the first picture but mine only pull 30 amps. You can pull 50 or 60 amps with that lincoln if you turn it all the way up.
although the one we had on the farm rarely got turned up past 150 output amps. Here is a page I found that lists the specs http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e230.pdf

 

[Kratos]

Here is the whole package that I bought. You know when after 15 years the guy still has the books, he probably takes care of his stuff.

 

[California]

Here is the whole package that I bought. You know when after 15 years the guy still has the books, he probably takes care of his stuff.

Wow - you did good!

For those old rods: you may find the rod type stamped near the bare end. If they are 7xxx series, they require dry storage and shouldn't be used for anything beyond harmless practice.

Some people will advise the same for 6xxx series (6011 and 6013) but as I understand it, 6-series rod coatings are expected to have moisture content similar to normal indoor storage and if the coating is intact, they can still be used.

I bought an old, dusty, nearly full 50 lb box of 6011 from an old farmer for $5 just to see if they were usable. I estimate the box had been open for 10 years or more; he said it had been in his barn for 'a long time'. I lucked out - they work great. The weld in my photo (Post #24 in this thread) was made with that old 6011.

 

[Birdhunter1]

It looks like you done good on that buy, that is a very good welder.

 

[Berniep]

The plug with the parallel prongs is rated for 50 amps and should run your welder fine if you want to change the plug end. You can pick them up at TSC or my local hardware store has them.

 

[gemini5362]

sounds like the plug in your garage (if it is a big black receptacle that fits on the outside of the wall instead of inside a receptacle box on the inside of thewall) is a stove receptacle they have two straight slots and a round ground hole. the one on the welder looks like a 230 volt plug for a window air conditioner. You can make an extension cable like you were talking about pretty easily and that will probably be a good idea. If you are not sure what you are doing ask someone that knows to help. get some 8/2 with a ground run the copper ground cable to the center connections on each end. run the black to one of the angle receptacles on the one end and to the straight terminal on the plug to the other end. Do the same with the white wire to the other plug and receptacle side. If you look on the lincoln home page it will tell you how many amps you need for the supply current. Just because it is a 150 or 200 amp out welder that is at around 32volts you are supplying 240 volts to it so the current will be a factor of 8 less that is not an accurate amount but it gives you an idea. for a 200 amp welder your current will be somewhere around 25 or a bit more. remember that is not an accurate amount look for the actual specs and they may be on a plate on the welder. You might be able to get 1/2 with ground depending on the current amount you need and how long you make the extension cord. The important thing you need to check is the circuit breaker size going to that receptacle it will say on it how much current it will handle. If it is a 20 or 25 amp breaker you probably do not have big enough wire going from the receptacle to the breaker. Good luck with your welder.


I have the same helmet you have and I love mine.

 

[cp1969]

Now you might want to invest in a little book called "The Welder's Handbook" by Richard Finch. It is a good beginner's book; it goes for about $15 new. Can probably get a used one off of ebay or Amazon for less.

You can always get a more technical book later if you're interested.

 

[Kratos]

I had to play around in the electric box as the wires to the plug in the garage were not hooked up. My stove was hooked up to a 40A breaker and I had a 30A that was open. So, I moved the stove to the 30A and hooked the welder plug to the 40A. I assume that the stove or the welder will trip the circuit breaker if this is not good enoght for either.

I took the back off the welder and it is a simple deal to change the plug out. I live 15 miles from town and try not to go to town on Sunday since I work the other days so I will hit Home Depot tommorow and see what is the best available fix. I may just put the original plug back on the welder with enough wire to go where I need to go. However, one plus if I can do the extension chord adapter thing is I could for small jobs use the plug in the basement that the dryer is plugged into if I need something welded down there.

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[2manyrocks]

I saw a used lincoln in not as good a condition as yours go for $175 at a farm auction about 2 months ago. Looks like you got a great welder for $100.

I'd read through the safety stuff on Hobart's Weld Talk website. Example: I didn't know a welder could throw sparks 35 feet away. Also didn't know that welding zinc plated material or welding material primed with zinc paint could be deadly, either.

I think you can also find answers to your wiring questions at the Weld Talk site. The plug on your welder is not the factory plug. Look at another Lincoln welder at Home Depot and you'll see the difference. When I wired mine, I installed a 50 amp circuit.

You want to be sure your stove has adequate amps, too. I'm not so sure about putting a stove on 30 amps. My stove is on a 50 amp circuit.

There are three things you need sized correctly: the circuit breakers at the box, the receptacle, and the wires going between them. All three need to be able to carry the amps for that welder.

 

[California]

I moved the stove to the 30A and hooked the welder plug to the 40A.

Careful. You need to look at a chart that matches wire size to breaker capacity.

If you are fusing 30 amp capacity wire with a 40 amp breaker you could smoke the wire and burn down the house before the breaker trips. That's not likely - but it's not a good idea. And it might have a drastic effect on your fire insurance if there is a problem.

So far I haven't tripped my 30 amp breaker. While the scale on the welder goes to 235 amps output (@ 50 amps input), I use 120-130 amps for 1/8 rod and haven't yet had a need for bigger rod or more current. I asked about this here when I started, and a couple of experienced welders said they seldom trip a 30 amp breaker with this size welder.

Also I wouldn't weld in the basement. There's no way to control where all the sparks go. Whatever you do, have a bucket of water and a fire extinguisher right there for an immediate response if sparks start something smoldering.

I like 2manyrocks advice to read up on welding.

 

[Kratos]

Thanks for the warning, but I think I am fine and this is why I did it this way. Moving the stove wire that has been running on a 40A breaker over to a 30A breaker should if anything cause the circuit to trip before the wire carries as much amps as it has been carrying since I moved down in breaker (if I am thinking right).

And the wires that are on the 40A breaker now and running to the welder receptacle are huge. They are like 1/2 " thick (I wish I new guages). The guy who had this house before me owned a logging company and I imagine he added this plug specifically for a large welder. If anything, I hope I get enough juice to the welder as this wire guage is so large.

 

[Soundguy]

Bang... that 100$ tombstone looks like the ticket to me.

Soundguy

I called the guy who advertised the 140 Lincoln and the 180 Lincoln. He wants $350 for the 140 which is 110V and $400 for the 180 which is 220V. Both are new in the box and never struck an arc, he says. I have also found 15 year old Linclon 225 AC for $100. What say ye all?

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. my hobart has 100% duty cycle somewhere about 95A.. which is great for me and 1/8 electrodes...

Soundguy

That's called "duty cycle" and is a characteristic of all these machines. The higher the welding heat (amperage), the faster the guts of the machine heats up. At some fairly low amperage, the duty cycle can be 100% meaning you can weld continuously at that amperage. At higher amperages, the duty cycle will decrease. The duty cycle at max amperage can be as low as 20% on many of this class of machines.

Duty cycles are usually expressed in the percentage of a 10 minute period that you can weld continuously - e.g. at a 20% duty cycle, you can weld for 2 minutes after which you must let the welder cool for 8 minutes. 50% duty cycle - weld 5 minutes, cool 5 minutes, etc.

I believe most welders have a thermal overload device that trips when the internal temperature exceeds maximum permitted, IOW, the duty cycle is exceeded. I have read comments by some who say they can extend the duty cycle by improving the cooling air flow through the welder - i.e. setting an external fan to blow air over/through the welder. I've not tried that, as I've not yet exceeded the duty cycle on either my Thunderbolt stick welder nor my MM180 mig unit. But, I don't ususally run long continuous beads either.

For two similar machines, check the specified duty cycle at the various welding amperages. If you expect to be continuously welding over an extended time, you'll want the machine which specifies the highest duty cycles.

 

[Soundguy]

That's essentially what i did.. I made up a 25' extension cord of very HD wire, and one one end it has the fem outlet for my welder.. and on the other it has a male end for the 220v recep in my garage.. I just make sure I don't use more than 30 input amps as that is what the garage recep is set at via the breaker... Since most of my welding is at 90-120a output . I'm way good to go. If I need 50a input I break out the 12.5kw pto genset..

Soundguy

I was thinking that the best fix that would add versatilty to my welder would be to construct an extension chord with a male plug that would fit the receptacle in my garage and a femaile receptacle that would fit my welder and 25 ft. of the right cable. Since this welder has wheels, but the standard short electrode and ground cable, this would give me the ability to get to my work without extending the other two cables.

Does anyone see a problem with this? Does anyone know if both types of plugs are just three wires with two hots and a ground or neutral?

 

[heymack]

Do a little research and learn about different plugs/receptacles. The plug on your welder has a lower amperage rating than the original (50amp).

 

[MikesTractor]

Both of my stick welders are on 50 amp 220v circuits. My newest welder (about 4 months old) is a Hobart Stickmate LX 235 AC/160 DC. I bought this one because I wanted the DC capability. This welder does a real good job, but it won't burn a rod like my old welder

My old stick is an antique. I'm not sure how to say the name. It is a Eutectic (I think). That is what is on the front of it. It is a 250 amp welder. This welder probably weighs about 250 to 300 pounds. I've had this welder for about 25 years. I took it in as payment on a job. No telling how many pounds of rod this thing has burned. It looks rough, but I had rather weld with it than my new Hobart anyday. It is easier to strike and it seems to run a rod smoother.

Anyway, here are a few pics of my old welder. Has anyone ever seen one of these? Does anyone know who actually made it? It looks like the model is EutecArc 24-40 and it is 250 amp AC. The data plate is long gone, or I would give that information.

 

[Kratos]

One great thing about trying new stuff is you gain respect for others and their trades. I put a new 50A plug on my welder and decided to try my first weld on my brush hog. Others had recommended that I practise on scrap, but I am the only one who sees my implements so what the heck.

Anyway, I realized quickly why welders get paid for what they do. Pictures will tell the sad story. I started trying to tack the sheet metal to the 1/4" frame, but kept just melting the sheet metal on top. Finally, I moved to teh heavy angle iron on top and managed to get an ugly weld. I guess this is how you learn if you do not want to take the time to read a book or take a class.

John

A couple befores and a couple of afters should be a good lesson to all.

 

[JoeL4330]

I just came back from picking up my new (used) Lincoln welder. My wife also noticed a plug by the front door of my garage that looks like what a stove or dryer would plug into. I am hoping that it is a 220 outlet with enough power to run the welder. Of course, I have two questions.

(1) The plug has a round hole on the bottom and two vertical straight holes up top parrallel to each other and one longer than the other. Does this sound like what I need and how can I test it. All I have is a cheap voltage tester that I don't suppose could handle high voltage.

(2) The plug on my Lincoln 225 AC has a bottom male plug that is a 90 degree angle and two top ones at an angle from each other. If my outlet is 220 volts with enough amps, can I get an adapter to make the two plugs fit or do I have to have either the welder or the outlet redone?

Thanks for the continued help getting me started.

John

You should be able to find the plug/receptacle specs from the pix at http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html

Older stove installations were 50A two parallel blade with round, and older dryer hookups were 30A "crows foot" ...newer stoves installations, etc. use four-wire. The overcurrent protection (breaker at the box) should never exceed the wire carrying capacity (which depends on distance) and the plug/receptacle rating. It sounds like the previous welder owner wired it up for a dryer receptacle and you have an older stove receptacle. You can get by with changing either so they match but I wouldn't put a higher amperage breaker ahead of a lower amp receptacle even if the wire were sized for the higher amperage. In the reverse situation, where you use a lower amperage breaker than receptacle, I would mark the receptacle "welder only" ...that is, for lower duty cycle use.

Anyway, the chart at the URL is very useful ...hope I haven't confused you

 

[Kratos]

No confusion and very clear. By using your chart, the welder I bought had a 10-30P plug and the receptacle in my garage was a 6-50R wired with #6 wire to a 40A breaker. I bought a 6-50P plug and cut the other plug off and attached the new one. I suppose that I could have bought a length of #6 3-wire cable so the wire from the welder to the plug would match the wire guage from the receptacle to the circuit breaker box, but the wire that came with the 10-30P dryer plug seemed stout enough and it will never be anywhere but outside while using my welder. I would not feel comfortable with this slightly smaller wire inside a wall, but it does not seem a safety factor here.

Anyone want to bother commenting on my first welds or is it just a matter of lack of teaching and practice that there is not much to say about. LOL

 

[Berniep]

I know you hate grinding but a little grinding of of the paint and rust would go a long way in helping those welds, at the very least it will help in starting the arc. I am not an expert (oh don't you hate it when someone says that) but I have burned a few rods. I would say you neeed to have a shorter arc and slow down a little. What rods are you using? I would suggest 6011 to burn through the paint and rust. You need to focus the heat more on the side of cutter to keep from melting the thinner top sheetmetal You really need to at least run a couple of beads on some scrap so you can get the feel.
You will get it with a little practice. Here is a website with some welding videos.
What Is Arc Welding: Basic Welding Skills for Beginners: Free video clips on ExpertVillage.com
On the left at the bottom are stick welding videos that preetty much cover this entire thread.