Taking the Welder Plunge

[Kratos]

I am a wanabe "Green Acres" style mini-farmer and have received great advice on this forum when it came to buying my tractor and implements and clearing my new pasture. I am getting tired of trying to find a way to get everything I break into town and paying to have simple things welded. My brush hog needs serious attention and I think by the time I rent a trailor to haul it to town and pay $70 an hour for a welder, I could buy a simple unit and learn. I will just need it again soon as this seems to be mini-farm life.

I was all ready to pay $269 at Home Depot for a Lincoln 225 AC stick welder when I saw this one for only $100 more (I sound like I got sold).

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My question's are:

(1) For welding 1/4" mild steel like on my brush hog frame, will this little welder do the job or do I need the more powerful stick welder system?

(2) Since I only did a little welding 20 years ago with a stick system, is it worth the extra $100 to have a welder that advertises being easier for the novice to master than a stick welder?

If this system will weld what I need done (just repairs for now and not planning to fabricate any implements myself) and it is easier to learn so I save frustration and it runs on regular household 110V so I do not have to add a 220V plug in my garage and I can run it off my portable generator if I have a need in the field, I will probably pay the extra $100.

Somebody stop me if I am making a mistake.

John

 

[bigdad]

I can only relay what I have dealt with. I have a 220 Miller stick AC/DC welder. It's pretty versatile when you are talking the heavier stuff...or you can crank it down and use a lighter rod. I ran a parallel plug off of the Mrs. oven breaker to the garage. (I just have to make sure that she doesn't have anything planned for the oven)

I also have one of those little Lincoln 125's that is just about as handy as a vest pocket! Pick it up and run with it like a large tool box. No gas, flux core on mine. I didn't have much luck with it running off of a 5k generator. Great for the light stuff. Would be even better with $$Gas.

Conclusion: Get a high end 220 wire welder gas ready and watch the farm sales etc. for and old stick welder. They're indestructable.

Like having a pickup or a tractor.... when your "friends" find out you weld..... LOOK OUT!

 

[capt jack]

That is a wire feer welder (and a small on at that). very easy to weld with,
butttttttt... Very limited on metal thickness, needs to be CLEAN metal you're welding. They come 2 ways, gas shielded wire ( has an argon/CO2 gas coming out as you weld ) better quality welds but no outside use. (any wind disrupts the gas). or flux core wire (not very good welds). They do make very big wire welders that can do thick work, but expensive and still have the indoor only rule. Buy a good stick welder. AC is good, AC/DC is better,read a beginners welding book, get some scrap steel and practice. They are cheap to operate, not that hard to learn, and last forever. Auto darkening helmets have gotten cheap, allowing you to see your work before, during and after the arc starts, makes stick welding much easier, get one and you won't be sorry.
Jack

 

[hill]

To begin with rumor has it that Home Depot has a proprietary agreement with Lincoln Electric in which Lincoln supplies a lesser quality product for sale in HD outlets only. There are minor differences in the product naming that can give clues to which is which. Also I think Lincoln is kind of ambitious in their claims of welding capacity across the board. Such things can be done, but only in ideal conditions with highly skilled weldors and things are different in the real world for me and you.

That done, the small fluxcore welder will struggle to complete welds in 1/4" mild steel and then only if the material is clean and a bevel is cut in each piece. I have one of those, a 100 HD as I recall without running out to look at it,and it made a difficult learning tool for a while. I'd probably take $150. for it now. Anyway, in general don't look for a very satisfactory welder that only runs on 110 volts but if you must then hold for the most powerful available - some 140 amps advertised output. (real usable output is usually less). You'll be better off to just assume that you need to add that 220 circuit if you don't have one already.

If you buy the Lincoln wire feeder you'll likely be back in the market sooner than later, OK?

For a single welder user a stick welder makes the most sense for all the reasons given above by bigdad and Capt Jack. However, that Home Depot price for an AC only Lincoln tombstone is pretty high. They're available for less than $220. shipped for free (and tax free) from assorted online outlets.

 

[Kratos]

Thanks for all the input. the HD 100 is out as I hate to grind and sand and want something that will weld my equippment warts and all. How does this one compare to the Lincoln since it is free shipping now.

FREE SHIPPING — Hobart Stickmate AC Welder — 230 Volt, 205 Amp, Model# 500502 | Arc Welders | Northern Tool + Equipment

John

 

[BobReeves]

Sounds like we have allot of the same needs, I have a Lincoln 175 that runs off 220 and it's a great little welder for stuff up to 1/4. I use flux core wire simply because I run it off my 5 KW generator quite often and don't want the hassle of dragging a gas bottle along.

Bought the Lincoln at a good price on eBay after trying to weld some 16 gauge sheet with my 225 amp stick welder. Speaking for an average self taught welder. Stick welders are great if you don't need to weld anything under 1/8, when you get to the thin stuff a wire feed is much easier to use and get good welds. However the stick welder really shines at what it can do for the money if you are working with anything 1/8 and above..

Think if I was starting from scratch I would still buy the stick welded first but would try to get an AC/DC instead of the AC only one I have.. You will keep it even if you later buy a wire feed so it won't be a bad investment no matter what you decide to do. Some can even weld the thin stuff with a stick but I have never been able to master it.

 

[cp1969]

You might want to think about getting a used one.

Lincoln AC-225 Stick Welder For Sale

Welder



Lincoln Arc Welder

This one is probably the best bargain but way more than the average guy needs:Miller 300 Syncrowave TIG welder

Btw, those are all from Seattle Craig's list

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Thanks ... I hate to grind and sand and want something that will weld my equippment warts and all. ...

First, I make no claim to being an expert welder. That said, you need to seriously think about the quoted statement. A very big part, some say THE biggest part, of a successful welded joint is the joint preparation. That includes cleaning, fitting, and beveling. You are just not going to get the proper penetration and fusion on thicker metal without a properly beveled edge - and that means grinding - even on 1/4 stock. And that goes double with a little wire feed unit.

I have a Miller Thunderbolt 235 AC/DC which is about the same size machine as the Hobart you mentioned. I'm very happy with the capability/size of that machine for the type of welding I do and that you are likely to be doing. I would suggest that if you are going with a stick welder, consider getting one with DC capability even though it'll be more expensive. I much prefer DC to AC even though the max amperage on the DC setting is only about half that on AC.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Thanks for all the input. the HD 100 is out as I hate to grind and sand and want something that will weld my equippment warts and all. How does this one compare to the Lincoln since it is free shipping now.

FREE SHIPPING — Hobart Stickmate AC Welder — 230 Volt, 205 Amp, Model# 500502 | Arc Welders | Northern Tool + Equipment

John

You did pretty good, personally I would have gone with a licoln 225AC if I was going to get an AC only machine (which is what I have) but the Hobart's are good quality machines and that will do alot of work for you. Remember you are a maintenace/farmer welder not a professional welder repairing industrial equipment daily. A 6013 rod will be the best to start out with as it is an easy to use rod that will be best for getting the basics as for proper travel speed, penetration and amperage settings etc. A 6011 is a deep penetrating rod good for all positions and if you really need strength do a first pass with a 6011 (deep penetrating and hard) followed over by a 7018. If doing a vertical weld only go up, it is the onlly way worthwhile but more difficult. I am trying anew rod a buddy of mine gave me but has yet to tell me what it is, it welds with the ease of a 6013 but penetrates like a 6011 . I have been begging to find out what it is but he has yet to tell me.

6011's and 6013's are good general purpose all position rods for dirty and greasy steel. Most of the welding you will probably ever do (except for cast iron or aluminum and stainless) can be done with these rods.

 

[Soundguy]

That lincoln 225ac is a whole lot more machine for less money than the little mig you are looking at.

Migs are nice.. when they are big an expensive.. Unfortunately.. the sad fact is.. when dealing with metal thickness issues.. a 250$ AC stick welder will weld as good or deeper on a single pass than a mig untill you get near a grand$$.. Add a few variables to that.. like bad metal prep due to location.. and .. say.. wind.. and.. uh.. it's starting to rain and i need to get this front axle welded up to get the tractor out of the mud hole.. and well... the mig just ain't the ticket for that environment or repair..... however the big ole' stick will do the job.. etc.

If you make alot of toy metal projects and weld sheet metal and 3/16 or 1/4 mainly.. then get a mig.. hard to beat those pretty welds that even an amature can pull off.

If you need to buzz up 1/2" metal on a budget... an AC stick welder is the ticket... if you got a hair more to spend.. get a stick welder that does AC/DC.. soemthing like 200+AC.. and 160-180 dc.. etc.

I have a hobart stickmateLX 235A AC .. I paid? 239$ at tractor supply.. it was a tad cheaper than the lincoln 225A AC at HD... for another 130$ I could have got the AC/DC unit.. however.. I do 'farm' welding.. and a big ole' AC stick welder does just fine for the limited welding I do..

Soundguy

I am a wanabe "Green Acres" style mini-farmer and have received great advice on this forum when it came to buying my tractor and implements and clearing my new pasture. I am getting tired of trying to find a way to get everything I break into town and paying to have simple things welded. My brush hog needs serious attention and I think by the time I rent a trailor to haul it to town and pay $70 an hour for a welder, I could buy a simple unit and learn. I will just need it again soon as this seems to be mini-farm life.

I was all ready to pay $269 at Home Depot for a Lincoln 225 AC stick welder when I saw this one for only $100 more (I sound like I got sold).

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My question's are:

(1) For welding 1/4" mild steel like on my brush hog frame, will this little welder do the job or do I need the more powerful stick welder system?

(2) Since I only did a little welding 20 years ago with a stick system, is it worth the extra $100 to have a welder that advertises being easier for the novice to master than a stick welder?

If this system will weld what I need done (just repairs for now and not planning to fabricate any implements myself) and it is easier to learn so I save frustration and it runs on regular household 110V so I do not have to add a 220V plug in my garage and I can run it off my portable generator if I have a need in the field, I will probably pay the extra $100.

Somebody stop me if I am making a mistake.

John

 

[Kratos]

I haven't bought anything yet. Why would you choose the Lincoln over the Hobart? I do like the fact that the local Home Depot sells parts and accessories. I live in an area without many choices when it comes to stores.

 

[Soundguy]

I chose my hobart over lincol due to capacity mostly.. and not much on price as the hobart was only 30$ cheaper..e tc.. Also.. the hobart has a spin-wheel amp setting dial as opposed to manual click in amp settings.. etc..

soundguy

 

[Kratos]

I like the fact that the Hobart seems to adjust how long you can weld based on amperage used. At least, I think that is what it means. I just found this on Craig's list in Seattle which is a two hour drive, but could buy both and sell one maybe. Anyone know about these machines?

LINCOLN 140 and 180 amp electric welders

John

 

[fiddler kelly]

Krato I have the Lincoln sp 125 mig tha can be turned up to 125 amps and weld up to 5/16 steel with multiple runs. I like the machine for light welding or spot welding. I have made canoe racks for trucks and quads mostly anything with 1/4 inch or less thickness I have used it on but I also have a miller ac/dc thunderbolt which I use for anything greater thatn a quarter. The convenience I find with the mig is no cleanup after.

I had cut a line through an old oil tank I am using for a dump trailor which was a bad mistake but to weld it back together was very easy with the mig.

But like I said I think you should get yourself a stick first you can always turn dom the amperage and get the appropitate rod for that amperage.

 

[ChuckinNH]

To begin with rumor has it that Home Depot has a proprietary agreement with Lincoln Electric in which Lincoln supplies a lesser quality product for sale in HD outlets only.


The way I understand it, if there is a "HD" at the beginning of the product number then the product is made to Home Depot specs, and is not the same product that you would buy at another place.

 

[SkunkWerX]

To begin with rumor has it that Home Depot has a proprietary agreement with Lincoln Electric in which Lincoln supplies a lesser quality product for sale in HD outlets only. There are minor differences in the product naming that can give clues to which is which. Also I think Lincoln is kind of ambitious in their claims of welding capacity across the board. Such things can be done, but only in ideal conditions with highly skilled weldors and things are different in the real world for me and you.

That done, the small fluxcore welder will struggle to complete welds in 1/4" mild steel and then only if the material is clean and a bevel is cut in each piece.

If you buy the Lincoln wire feeder you'll likely be back in the market sooner than later, OK?

For a single welder user a stick welder makes the most sense for all the reasons given above by bigdad and Capt Jack. However, that Home Depot price for an AC only Lincoln tombstone is pretty high. They're available for less than $220. shipped for free (and tax free) from assorted online outlets.

I agree with hill. I have the Lincoln 155, which is the 220v unit, gas reeady/equipped. Right now mine is set-up for aluminum, but I;'m switching it back as I finished the aluminum work a while ago. The 155 can weld 1/4" and slightly higher with a couple passes, which makes me suspicious of the 100 doing 1/4". They may be getting away with it using multiple passes and perfect conditions/prep.

I've had the trusty Lincoln225 "Buzz box" for 20 years, and it will surely run another 20 or so. I've been welding all my tractor implements with it for a long long time, does just fine. I even built a landscape trailer, ground-up, with it. AC is more "jumpy" than a good DC unit, but it can still get your job done with good results.

I'm thinking the Lincoln100 might be just a hair undersized for your needs.
In the implement building/fixing game there will be time you need to go to 3/8" steel, maybe even 1/2". and when you consider odd angles, and less than perfect joints, the AC225 with the right electrodes will git-r-done.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Kratos i thought you had already bought that hobart welder. I like the lincoln better because I have seen a ton of them that are old and rusted looking like they are about to fall apart but still weld great, alos I learned on Lincoln's and about every arc welder i have used is a Lincoln. a buddy of mine has a Hobart AC/DC machine and it is nice, makes great looking welds and has the dial amperage adjustment instead of the pre-set adjustable switches like the Lincoln 225's.
I have used a Lincoln 110V mig welder, I don't remember the model #, but I would rather throw it in a ditch than to use it again, but that is just me. A guy I used to work for has a Miller 110V mig welder that was one of the finest mig's I have used but I don't remember the model # on it either. I welded 1/2" and 3/8" stuff with it often but it was ground, beveled and cleaned thouroughly.

 

[Kratos]

I called the guy who advertised the 140 Lincoln and the 180 Lincoln. He wants $350 for the 140 which is 110V and $400 for the 180 which is 220V. Both are new in the box and never struck an arc, he says. I have also found 15 year old Linclon 225 AC for $100. What say ye all?

 

[Tom_Veatch]

I like the fact that the Hobart seems to adjust how long you can weld based on amperage used. At least, I think that is what it means. ...

That's called "duty cycle" and is a characteristic of all these machines. The higher the welding heat (amperage), the faster the guts of the machine heats up. At some fairly low amperage, the duty cycle can be 100% meaning you can weld continuously at that amperage. At higher amperages, the duty cycle will decrease. The duty cycle at max amperage can be as low as 20% on many of this class of machines.

Duty cycles are usually expressed in the percentage of a 10 minute period that you can weld continuously - e.g. at a 20% duty cycle, you can weld for 2 minutes after which you must let the welder cool for 8 minutes. 50% duty cycle - weld 5 minutes, cool 5 minutes, etc.

I believe most welders have a thermal overload device that trips when the internal temperature exceeds maximum permitted, IOW, the duty cycle is exceeded. I have read comments by some who say they can extend the duty cycle by improving the cooling air flow through the welder - i.e. setting an external fan to blow air over/through the welder. I've not tried that, as I've not yet exceeded the duty cycle on either my Thunderbolt stick welder nor my MM180 mig unit. But, I don't ususally run long continuous beads either.

For two similar machines, check the specified duty cycle at the various welding amperages. If you expect to be continuously welding over an extended time, you'll want the machine which specifies the highest duty cycles.

 

[California]

... found 15 year old Lincoln 225 AC for $100. What say ye all?

I think you just found the answer. That unit will complete any project you are likely to need as you evolve as a "wanabe "Green Acres" style mini-farmer" (your words). The alternatives you found are lighter-duty and more specialized to make them efficient for stuff you aren't likely to do.

I'm a couple of years ahead of you on the same path. I found an old 1960's Montgomery Wards AC welder with the same specifications as that Lincoln. Both these models are dead simple, inside there is nothing but a huge indestructible transformer and a cooling fan that you might have to replace ($10) every 50 years, in the kind of service you and I use it for. The cabinet will rust away long before that transformer would have a problem.

For your use I think the additional dollars beyond that $100 are buying 'shiny and pretty' rather than improving the strength of welds you will make.

Jump on it before someone else does.