Taking the Welder Plunge

[Kratos]

Thanks for the warning, but I think I am fine and this is why I did it this way. Moving the stove wire that has been running on a 40A breaker over to a 30A breaker should if anything cause the circuit to trip before the wire carries as much amps as it has been carrying since I moved down in breaker (if I am thinking right).

And the wires that are on the 40A breaker now and running to the welder receptacle are huge. They are like 1/2 " thick (I wish I new guages). The guy who had this house before me owned a logging company and I imagine he added this plug specifically for a large welder. If anything, I hope I get enough juice to the welder as this wire guage is so large.

 

[Soundguy]

Bang... that 100$ tombstone looks like the ticket to me.

Soundguy

I called the guy who advertised the 140 Lincoln and the 180 Lincoln. He wants $350 for the 140 which is 110V and $400 for the 180 which is 220V. Both are new in the box and never struck an arc, he says. I have also found 15 year old Linclon 225 AC for $100. What say ye all?

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. my hobart has 100% duty cycle somewhere about 95A.. which is great for me and 1/8 electrodes...

Soundguy

That's called "duty cycle" and is a characteristic of all these machines. The higher the welding heat (amperage), the faster the guts of the machine heats up. At some fairly low amperage, the duty cycle can be 100% meaning you can weld continuously at that amperage. At higher amperages, the duty cycle will decrease. The duty cycle at max amperage can be as low as 20% on many of this class of machines.

Duty cycles are usually expressed in the percentage of a 10 minute period that you can weld continuously - e.g. at a 20% duty cycle, you can weld for 2 minutes after which you must let the welder cool for 8 minutes. 50% duty cycle - weld 5 minutes, cool 5 minutes, etc.

I believe most welders have a thermal overload device that trips when the internal temperature exceeds maximum permitted, IOW, the duty cycle is exceeded. I have read comments by some who say they can extend the duty cycle by improving the cooling air flow through the welder - i.e. setting an external fan to blow air over/through the welder. I've not tried that, as I've not yet exceeded the duty cycle on either my Thunderbolt stick welder nor my MM180 mig unit. But, I don't ususally run long continuous beads either.

For two similar machines, check the specified duty cycle at the various welding amperages. If you expect to be continuously welding over an extended time, you'll want the machine which specifies the highest duty cycles.

 

[Soundguy]

That's essentially what i did.. I made up a 25' extension cord of very HD wire, and one one end it has the fem outlet for my welder.. and on the other it has a male end for the 220v recep in my garage.. I just make sure I don't use more than 30 input amps as that is what the garage recep is set at via the breaker... Since most of my welding is at 90-120a output . I'm way good to go. If I need 50a input I break out the 12.5kw pto genset..

Soundguy

I was thinking that the best fix that would add versatilty to my welder would be to construct an extension chord with a male plug that would fit the receptacle in my garage and a femaile receptacle that would fit my welder and 25 ft. of the right cable. Since this welder has wheels, but the standard short electrode and ground cable, this would give me the ability to get to my work without extending the other two cables.

Does anyone see a problem with this? Does anyone know if both types of plugs are just three wires with two hots and a ground or neutral?

 

[heymack]

Do a little research and learn about different plugs/receptacles. The plug on your welder has a lower amperage rating than the original (50amp).

 

[MikesTractor]

Both of my stick welders are on 50 amp 220v circuits. My newest welder (about 4 months old) is a Hobart Stickmate LX 235 AC/160 DC. I bought this one because I wanted the DC capability. This welder does a real good job, but it won't burn a rod like my old welder

My old stick is an antique. I'm not sure how to say the name. It is a Eutectic (I think). That is what is on the front of it. It is a 250 amp welder. This welder probably weighs about 250 to 300 pounds. I've had this welder for about 25 years. I took it in as payment on a job. No telling how many pounds of rod this thing has burned. It looks rough, but I had rather weld with it than my new Hobart anyday. It is easier to strike and it seems to run a rod smoother.

Anyway, here are a few pics of my old welder. Has anyone ever seen one of these? Does anyone know who actually made it? It looks like the model is EutecArc 24-40 and it is 250 amp AC. The data plate is long gone, or I would give that information.

 

[Kratos]

One great thing about trying new stuff is you gain respect for others and their trades. I put a new 50A plug on my welder and decided to try my first weld on my brush hog. Others had recommended that I practise on scrap, but I am the only one who sees my implements so what the heck.

Anyway, I realized quickly why welders get paid for what they do. Pictures will tell the sad story. I started trying to tack the sheet metal to the 1/4" frame, but kept just melting the sheet metal on top. Finally, I moved to teh heavy angle iron on top and managed to get an ugly weld. I guess this is how you learn if you do not want to take the time to read a book or take a class.

John

A couple befores and a couple of afters should be a good lesson to all.

 

[JoeL4330]

I just came back from picking up my new (used) Lincoln welder. My wife also noticed a plug by the front door of my garage that looks like what a stove or dryer would plug into. I am hoping that it is a 220 outlet with enough power to run the welder. Of course, I have two questions.

(1) The plug has a round hole on the bottom and two vertical straight holes up top parrallel to each other and one longer than the other. Does this sound like what I need and how can I test it. All I have is a cheap voltage tester that I don't suppose could handle high voltage.

(2) The plug on my Lincoln 225 AC has a bottom male plug that is a 90 degree angle and two top ones at an angle from each other. If my outlet is 220 volts with enough amps, can I get an adapter to make the two plugs fit or do I have to have either the welder or the outlet redone?

Thanks for the continued help getting me started.

John

You should be able to find the plug/receptacle specs from the pix at http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html

Older stove installations were 50A two parallel blade with round, and older dryer hookups were 30A "crows foot" ...newer stoves installations, etc. use four-wire. The overcurrent protection (breaker at the box) should never exceed the wire carrying capacity (which depends on distance) and the plug/receptacle rating. It sounds like the previous welder owner wired it up for a dryer receptacle and you have an older stove receptacle. You can get by with changing either so they match but I wouldn't put a higher amperage breaker ahead of a lower amp receptacle even if the wire were sized for the higher amperage. In the reverse situation, where you use a lower amperage breaker than receptacle, I would mark the receptacle "welder only" ...that is, for lower duty cycle use.

Anyway, the chart at the URL is very useful ...hope I haven't confused you

 

[Kratos]

No confusion and very clear. By using your chart, the welder I bought had a 10-30P plug and the receptacle in my garage was a 6-50R wired with #6 wire to a 40A breaker. I bought a 6-50P plug and cut the other plug off and attached the new one. I suppose that I could have bought a length of #6 3-wire cable so the wire from the welder to the plug would match the wire guage from the receptacle to the circuit breaker box, but the wire that came with the 10-30P dryer plug seemed stout enough and it will never be anywhere but outside while using my welder. I would not feel comfortable with this slightly smaller wire inside a wall, but it does not seem a safety factor here.

Anyone want to bother commenting on my first welds or is it just a matter of lack of teaching and practice that there is not much to say about. LOL

 

[Berniep]

I know you hate grinding but a little grinding of of the paint and rust would go a long way in helping those welds, at the very least it will help in starting the arc. I am not an expert (oh don't you hate it when someone says that) but I have burned a few rods. I would say you neeed to have a shorter arc and slow down a little. What rods are you using? I would suggest 6011 to burn through the paint and rust. You need to focus the heat more on the side of cutter to keep from melting the thinner top sheetmetal You really need to at least run a couple of beads on some scrap so you can get the feel.
You will get it with a little practice. Here is a website with some welding videos.
What Is Arc Welding: Basic Welding Skills for Beginners: Free video clips on ExpertVillage.com
On the left at the bottom are stick welding videos that preetty much cover this entire thread.