stump pulling

Angus99 · Mar 23, 2005

The dealer is prepping my new 3130DT and I've asked him to install some hooks on the 723 loader bucket to allow me to use a chain to pull up stumps. We're selectively clearing saplings & scrub out of a heavily wooded front yard--we want to keep the large trees and healthy immature trees. I live in the South, where stumps never seem to die unless you poison the stew out of them--which I'd like to avoid.

The stumps I'm pulling are fairly small --3-6 inches dia max near ground level. I've done this with a chain wrapped around the drawbar of my old Ford 640 and they pop right out with a running start--often tearing up the ground with the ag tires. Now that I have 4WD and a loader on the way, I'd like to minimize soil disturbance by just lifting them out, if possible. Also, using a chain allows me to reach stumps between the trees I want to keep; just using the bucket to bust them out won't be an option since the keepers are so close together. I do not have filled tires, but have a 400-lb back blade to counterbalance some of the lift force.

Any cautions about the equipment or technique? Any better ways to do it? Finally, where should I have the hooks welded to minimize damage to the bucket?

Thanks!

Ian

btolle · Mar 23, 2005

I use the draw bar for pulling small stumps. I don't know if you could bend the loader arms or not but I don't want to be the one to find out.

You could also generate a tremendous amount of hydraulic pressure in the lines with that type of pull. There are some threads about one person who has split a hydraulic line twice because of excessive hydraulic pressure generated by pushing with the loader.

I would much prefer to tie to the round bar (pipe) that goes across the loader frame in front of the radiator. The steel plates on that are tied directly into the frame. Tying to one side of the bar will give you a direct connection to the frame.

PLEASE! Do NOT take a running start with a chain, cable, or anything else. You create a tremendous "shock load" when you do that. The force generated can be huge and if you break the chain it can kill you! With a slow, steady pull you avoid shock loading and the chain is much less likely to hurt you if it breaks.

If I might make a suggestion: Don't cut the trees off short, leave the stump as tall as possible. The longer it is the more leverage you will have and the easier it will be on everything.

If you want to minimize soil damage find an old 18 wheeler wheel. Chain it firmly to the stump so that when you pull the force generated will be straight up instead of sideways. The wheel acts like a big pulley and changes the direction of force 90 degrees (more or less). I went by a tire place that services big trucks and they gave me an old slightly bent wheel for free. The things weigh 40 or 50 pounds.

Do a search on "stump pull" and you will find some threads showing some stump pulling tools others have made.

Bill Tolle

Angus99 · Mar 23, 2005

Thanks for the ideas/advice. I definitely have no plans to (ab)use this tractor like I did the Ford. I really like the idea of the truck rim, but I can't quite visualize how you suggest to use it. Are you running the chain over it, like a pully, to redirect the force? If you could clarify how you chain it to the stump to achieve a 90 degree change, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again.

Ian

beenthere · Mar 23, 2005

For all the readers, I'd suggest you head the 'running' start caution, and NEVER do it. It could give you a headache, literally as well as figuratively ($$$$) in the pocketbook.

Even 3" stumps are well anchored in the ground, and a steady pull or push, is the best way to remove them. If they don't move, figure out why and severe whatever is causing them to not move.

Hitting them or getting a 'running' start is not a good way to treat your equipment, IMO. Sorry if this offends, but there are many readers who may not know, and should know how to correctly go about stump removal. Otherwise someone could get hurt, or the equipment is broken and the dealer is faced with a 'warranty' issue because of mis-use of the equipment.

I helped out once at a Deere dealer, and watched as a nearly new 4100 was in for a majoy replacement of the rear end, transmission, axle, etc. housing that was destroyed. No one could fathom how it could come apart like that. When it was repaired (under warranty), I hauled it back to the owner, and could see then how it probably was broken. A stump cut off at about 4' and being about 16" in diam, was standing in the yard, with concrete blocks that must have been used for extra weight, and a huge logging chain was laying there. From the scratch marks, there had been quite a tussle, and only the tractor was torn apart. The stump looked as good as new.

Angus99 · Mar 23, 2005

Absolutely no offense taken! I greatly value & respect the advice & experience of this group. Based on what I've heard already, the drawbar and a slow & steady pull are the way I'll do it with the 3130.

On reading my earlier post, "running start" probably does conjure up some pretty irresponsible images. Just to clarify, there was usually no more than a foot or so of slack in the chain and the stumps were VERY small and the chain is VERY heavy. I sometimes did it that way because the 2-wheel drive would occasionally spin on the gravel driveway unless I used the weight of the tractor to best advantage. But even with these caveats, I agree it's not the right or safest way to do it.

Thanks.

Ian

coveredbridge · Mar 23, 2005

I remember the first time I tried to pull a peach tree stump out with my JD 820. I hooked the chain to the drawbar wrapped the other end around the stump, and started forward very gingerly in low gear. About the time I got the slack out of the chain, I realized that if that stump's rooted too good, I would be upside down in a flash. I stopped, backed up, unhooked the chain, and turned the tractor around and wrapped the chain around the front axle, then pulled in reverse. It may work for you, but I'd never pull a stump out with the rear drawbar. Just too dangerous. I would find a forward point on the tractor to hook on and pull in reverse. If the rear wheels break free, well that's better than breaking your neck, I figure. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

beenthere · Mar 23, 2005

Just to try to clear any confusion other readers may get from this message.
You won't upset the tractor if you pull something as you describe with the tractor drawbar (I gather you are not referring to the 3pt cross bar that some call a drawbar).

The tractor drawbar is placed below the axle, thus the pull is such that the torque around the axle won't flip the tractor.

The drawbar is better for pulling things than the front axle, IMO. Everything on the tractor, including the bars on the rear tires, is designed for pulling with the tractor drawbar. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

edski · Mar 23, 2005

I've used a crossbar between the lower arms of the 3 pt with both success and damage to the crossbar. My logic was to both lift and pull. This has worked on many stumps and fence posts. I've also bent the crossbar and snapped chains trying to do this. Those stumps are still in the field (laughing at me). Based on those experiences, I'd be reluctant to yank a stump with a FEL bucket, certainly not in an aggresive manner.

coveredbridge · Mar 23, 2005

( Just to try to clear any confusion other readers may get from this message.
You won't upset the tractor if you pull something as you describe with the tractor drawbar (I gather you are not referring to the 3pt cross bar that some call a drawbar).

The tractor drawbar is placed below the axle, thus the pull is such that the torque around the axle won't flip the tractor.

The drawbar is better for pulling things than the front axle, IMO. Everything on the tractor, including the bars on the rear tires, is designed for pulling with the tractor drawbar. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

beenthere,

I'm sure you have much more experience than me in these matters, but for those who have might want to explore the subject further, please check this thread under General Forums/Safety - tractor roleover

I agree that the front axle is not the ideal pulling point, but with my equipment and circumstances, I thought, and still believe it was the best, safest choice available. I'm not planning on hooking any chains to the front axle on my new BX1500 though /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

As they say, your actual results may vary. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SCB · Mar 23, 2005

I would say that short of a backhoe, get a toothbaron your bucket and dig out one side of the roots first. then pull from the opposite direction and it should come right out. I have pulled the same size with my bx 23 that way with no problem. Any bigger and I use my backhoe. But a freind of mine has a 3130 and he loves his toothbar for uprooting that size of stump

MarkLeininger · Mar 23, 2005

I rent a large stump grinder when I need to do this. $200/day. Get the kind that traverse from side to side. They will go down deep enough to leave nothing but isolated roots, which you can pull out or leave depending on what you're trying to do. It will take you a few minutes to turn a 6" stump into mulch. I attach the stumper to the tow ball on my drawbar and pull forward over the stump until I'm in position. Don't even have to back up.

btolle · Mar 23, 2005

( Are you running the chain over it, like a pully, to redirect the force? If you could clarify how you chain it to the stump to achieve a 90 degree change, I'd appreciate it.
)

Yes, I use the wheel like a pulley. Roll the wheel up to the stump and put the grove in the wheel (the part that is normally covered by the tire). I run a small chain through the center (hub) hole of the wheel and around the stump to hold the wheel tight against the wheel. Then I hook the chain to the stump. As I pull on the chain, the stump will (theoretically) "roll" up over the wheel.

What that does is change the force on the stump from a lateral force to a vertical force. Instead of trying to drage the roots out of the ground sideway I am pulling them straght up. Sort of like you pull a weed straight out of the ground. If you try to pull a weed by grabbing it and pulling it to the side you are less likely to get it out and you will disturb more soil than if you had pulled straight up.

Hope that makes sense. If it doesn't tell me and I will try again or maybe someone can draw a picture.

Bill Tolle

edski · Mar 23, 2005

I'm gonna have to give that a try.
I've used a notched board on fence posts before (watched my grandpop do it when I was a kid)...acts in a similar way. But the wheel deal sounds like a winner.
Thanks, edski

Cliff_Johns · Mar 23, 2005

The problem with stump grinding, and with using the FEL to dig the stump, is that the original post asked about stump pulling from between other trees, an issue I also have. Stump grinding will result in killing the other close trees and using the FEL to dig with would probably result in the same thing even if you could get at the stump with a 60" wide implement.

Using a wheel to convert sideways to verticle force sounds pretty good. I've heard of using notched logs, but a wheel would be a nice strategy. You would need to tie it down as one poster already said, to avoid having the wheel squirt out and whack you in the head.

Cliff

SCB · Mar 23, 2005

You are so right Cliff. I was in a hurry and missed the part about him going between the trees /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Angus99 · Mar 23, 2005

Bill, thanks for clarifying about the wheel method. Can't wait to try it--I have two or three acres of scrub mixed with mature trees to clean up this way, so I think my summer is pretty well spoken for.

It's going to be a LONG two days waiting for this beauty (the 3130) to be delivered.

Thanks again to everyone else who responded. Sometimes, I wonder how we ever got along without these discussion groups. This is the third for me (previously I was on a TR6 and antique Ford tractor board) and this one's every bit as helpful.

Ian

bfarr · Mar 23, 2005

If you have stumps to start with that's one thing, but the best way to deal with a trees roots is to push the standing tree over then remove the stem from the root system.

MarkLeininger · Mar 25, 2005

( Stump grinding will result in killing the other close trees ... )

I talked to our tree service about this a couple years ago and the arborist said just the opposite. The most destructive way to remove a tree if you're concerned about the surrounding trees is by pulling it out because it stretches and breaks many of the roots of the surrounding trees with it. By using a stump grinder you affect a very small area right at the base of the removed tree and cut it out rather than pull it out. Even more effective is to use a root pruner before you grind the stump if it's a really big tree.

A few construction sites I've been on had large trees that they wanted to save. They brought in a tree company that had a machine with a huge set of hydraulic driven knife blades that penetrated the earth several feet deep in a large circle around the tree to prune the root system. They said that if heavy equipment drives on the surrounding root system it tears all the roots under the ground because they can't stretch. If you prune the roots first, the part around the tree remains intact. It will ****** the growth for a year or two, but it will grow back healthy. They also pruned the tree above ground to reduce the load on the root system.

rfogle · Mar 25, 2005

Yep, there are all kinds of ways to rid your property of stumps, etc. My only offering to this thread is to know the condition of your attaching device, chain, cable, or strap; and keep the distance to your work as short as possible. Any one of these will stretch - if they break (and in time, they will) the kinetic energy released will pull the length attached to the power source right back at it in a severe whipping action. No sense losing your head.......