starting/turing over issue

[jerfel]

I have a YM2210 that ran fine for 2 years of ownership. Last year I used it for about 3 hours to bush hog a field. I started it to move it and it ran about 50 feet and shut down. I let it sit for about 10 minutes and it started and shut down again. I found fuel was making it from the injection pump to the rebuilt injectors. I thought one was bad so I replaced both. I went to to start it again after bleeding the lines to the injectors it spun over a couple time then the starter would not turn the engine. I pulled the head and found pistons and sleeves appeared fine. I was told the tractor engine was rebuilt prior to purchase, I however have no basis for this since the water pump and radiator were shot when purchased. Both have been replaced, oil changed, rear hydrolic fluid also changed when I got it. I have reset the valve lash put on a new head gasket recently. I can turn the engine over by hand and find that it is harder to turn over when cylinder one is engaging and a lot easier when cylinder two is engaging. I have tried several batteries and none with get the starter to turn the engine. After about 3 attempts the starter is hot and the battery cables are so hot the lead ends that connect to the battery are melting. I had the starter rebuilt when this all started. That proceeded to help with nothing. Any help on starting this beast would be great. I am running out of Ideas and as this is the first deisel I have ever attempted to work on the complete workings of it I am still learning. I am going on one year now trying to get the thing to just spin over again, let alone getting it to fire off and run.

 

[winston1]

Do you have a compression release and do you use it?

 

[jerfel]

It does have a compression release which in theory works fine, used it to start tractor previously. At the moment it makes no difference whether it is engaged or not, results produced are the same.

 

[winston1]

Let me make sure I understand. Are you are saying the engine does not turn easily with the compression release engaged?

 

[Ginormous]

You might take a look at your electrical connections. I had some starting issues early this year with my YM1700, and some people commented that wires getting hot likely indicated bad electrical connections, like the ground from the battery to the frame. It's easy to check/fix... Here's the link to that thread:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/yanmar/232442-ym1700-wont-start.html

Good luck! :thumbsup:

 

[284 International]

Welcome to the forum, and sorry to hear about your troubles. I think there is a series of issues with your machine.

First, your starter is not properly attached, or was not rebuilt correctly. Pull it off and take it to Autozone or the equivalent. They test them for free.

How hard is it to turn the motor by hand, and how are you doing that? If it spins freely, except on one compression cycle, there is either a valve hanging open or it is leaking past the rings. Pull the valve cover and loosen the valves to maximum. This will ensure they are fully closing.

Try turning the motor again. If there is still a difference in compression, you have something wrong other than the valves.

Good luck. Let us know how you do.

 

[jerfel]

By hand the engine turns the same with compression release on or off and with the starter it doen't turn more than 1/4 inch if at all wth compression release on or off. I will check the grounds and make sure they are adequate I did last year, but then again it sat out since then as I didn' feel like fooling with it over the winter since it was outside stuck in the back yard. I am turning the engine with the crank bolt and a large socket and pull bar as well.

 

[jerfel]

The engine really doesn't turn freely it is just easier on cylinder number two than on cylinder number one.

 

[284 International]

How hard are you having to pull when it is easiest to rotate? When hardest? Does the engine ever "kick"and spin ahead freely?

 

[winston1]

If I am understanding correctly you are saying the engine does not turn over freely with the compression release pulled or not pulled. This includes turning it by hand? If this is the case you have something going on. Either the compression release is not adjusted properly to crack the exhaust valves or you have something grabbing somewhere. Any possibility you have taken on water through the exhaust with it sitting outside?

 

[jerfel]

The compression release worked before the whole issue started as it would start easy and correctly then and I never took that out of adjustment, so i can't verify unless I actually need to adjust further, but don't want to risk hitting the piston with the valve. I can feel the compression release pushing down on the rocker arms when engaging it though. The chance of water in the exhaust would be slim to none I kept it covered and found no water in the oil when I changed it two days ago prior to looking into the problem for the first time this year. The starter will spin quickly but only when not engaging the fly wheel so I figured that it was working just not turning the engine. Still have to check the grounds on everything though.

 

[jerfel]

when spinning cylinder two by hand I can spin it with one hand feels like little pressure, spinning cylinder one requires quite a bit of effort but never "kick" or rotates more than it should in that sense. On the decompression of Cylinder one it it can be rotated with one hand via socket like cylinder two is at all stages. Also I can hear a "whisping" sound out of the air intake on the head when cylinder one is compressing. Cylinder two does not do this at all. I figured the one cylinder has more compression than the other but don't have the means to actually compression check since he engine doesn't spin over by itself. Then again when I had the head off two days ago I did notice that it still spun over the same way(by hand) with the one cylinder being tougher to rotate through the compression stroke than the other cylinder, and that is with no pressure what so ever on either piston. both sleeves look new, neither has burning or scoring on them.

 

[winston1]

The engine should turn very freely with the head off. If not, you may need to pull the pan and check bearings.

 

[jerfel]

can those be replaced without tearing the entire engine apart, at least the ones on the connecting rod, I know the mains probably can't be?

 

[winston1]

can those be replaced without tearing the entire engine apart, at least the ones on the connecting rod, I know the mains probably can't be?

Yes, rod bearings can. Reading instead of talking face to face I sometimes end up misunderstanding. Just for clarity, are you saying the engine was difficult to turn over when the head was off?

 

[deepNdirt]

I'm going to toss one more possibility into the equation , it might sound imposable but it could happen, You mentioned having the starter rebuilt, have you removed the starter? and try turning by hand? I'm wondering if something went wrong with the starter and the bendix gear is stuck engaged to the flywheel and binding , or perhaps a clutch plate, throwout bearing, etc,etc, can the tractor be put in neutral and pushed any distance? .......... just a thought

 

[jerfel]

yes the tractor has the same difficulty being turned with the head off, I just thought it was a tight tolerance since I was told the engine was rebuilt, but I guess not. As for the starter I have had that off since the issue began and it actually worked fine before the rebuild, but went ahead and had it done. I have had if off since then and it does spin freely and a bench test showed it worked and was engaging correctly.

 

[jerfel]

It took four of us to push the tractor when in nuetral, can't really tell if the clutch is bad. Seemed to work as the tractor has no brakes and we just stopped it by pushing in the clutch. This could have caused excessive clutch/throwout/bearing wear on that end of things though. Wanted to get it running again before fooling with the frozen brakes

 

[deepNdirt]

I tend to sometimes think outside the box and try to troubleshoot the simplest of things moving toward the more difficult things you seem to have troubleshoot the fuel system and have establish all is well on that part,
I just wanted to bring up some other possibilities before you having to tear into the lower end of the engine, though it does sound like an inspection of the crank and bearings is the next thing to move toward doing
Oh! and also while turning the engine by hand did you remove any belts,? just so's eliminate the possibility of a frozen/stuck alternator,water pump etc,etc,

 

[jerfel]

I thank everyone for their help on this issue. I did have all belt related items off the tractor when turning it. It looks like i am going to have to check the bearings and then the clutch to make sure it isn't hanging, as it can't be budged in nuetral by one or two people, I never thought of that, since I did disconnect the neutral safty to make starting easier while trying to get it started lately.