Spacer/rim position Q

[RG1]

Alright, here's my situation and what I am looking at doing. Just want some feed back from anyone with similar experience. Sorry to be blunt, but I don't need any "guessing" answers from anyone who hasn't had experience with this type of thing, please. I did a long search here before even posting about this to see if anyone else had posted something similar info-wise. Not that I could find.

I have a JD 4115 with 12-16.5 rear/23X8.50-12 front R4 tires on OEM stock rims. I greatly prefer R1's. (yes I have owned CUT's with both styles). Not long after I bought the tractor, I found a set of NOS take off front R1's that came off another 4115. The correct R1's for my machine were 35X12-16.5's/7X12. The rims used for the rear R1's are the exact same rims used for my R4's. My R4's are loaded with RG, so I didn't want to buy new tires and use my old rims, plus I want to be able to swap back and forth if needed. I can actually pick up one of the rear R4's and maneuver it around if needed, so no problem making a swap now and then.

I recently found a set of NOS rear R1's from a 955, sized 11.2X16. I went on Titan's site and compared specs to the OEM R1's for the rear, then called and talked to a tech rep for a while. I told him that I already had the correct front R1's, so he ran the numbers for both the tires I found and the original OEM R1's using the loaded radius, rolling circumference, overall diameter, etc to make sure they would work correctly with the R1 fronts I have. They are actually closer in percentage of lead than the ones JD originally sold for my tractor (35X12-16.5). Great. I went back and picked the R1's up.

Ok, all that said to avoid any unnecessary questions/comments about lead etc. Now here's what I am wondering about-

The rims that came with these tires are OEM stock for a 955 and have a dish to the center plate and a different offset than my R4 rear rims do. I mounted one of them in the wide position (valve stem to the inside) today and double checked it against what I had already measured to determine what the width would be before even buying them. They are exactly 1 1/4" wider outside to outside than the R4's are. Not much really. My only concern is with the added torque that may come from the extra width. I do use a ballast box now and then as needed with my FEL, but it's not on for all that long at any one time. I do use my 3 pt for implements like a subsoiler, PHD, tiller etc. I have read a ton of posts here about using wheel spacers, and it seems to be a common thing to do. I also see that using spacers when a backhoe is mounted tends to bring out some strong disagreements as to wear and tear on axle shafts and bearings etc. The 4115 has the same exact rear end as the 4110/2520/2720 albeit different gearing due to the larger rear tires on the latter two machines. The axle housing is aluminum, and they use the short stub shaft axles. I am curious if anyone thinks that I'd have any problems with the slight extra width as far as added wear or stress?

Another thing I am thinking is that since the rim still bolts up tight against the axle flange as opposed to a spacer that is bolted to the flange, it won't get as much added torque as a wheel that gets moved out by a spacer since the actual mounting point/hardware interface is still in its original location.

Sorry for a long post, but I wanted to be thorough with giving as much info as I could before hand.

Opinions from those who know?

 

[vtsnowedin]

Your R1 rims can be set to eight different width arraignments but on some tractors some of the narrower ones interfere with fender clearances etc. and cant be used. On my 13.6x28 rimes I can use the larger five of them and each setting is about four inches wider out to out then the one narrower. As spacers are available from the factory I can't see why any position used without spacers would stress the bearings beyond what they are designed to undergo properly operated. Your owners manual for the 4115 should have all the info you need under the section" Wheels tires and treads".

 

[Deerherd]

You will be fine by using any factory available setting, just don't use spacers. Mine came in at 78" and at their widest setting are now 90". I also widened the fronts to match. They do stick out wider than the fenders!

 

[RG1]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The problem is that these wheels are from a different model Deere with a different design rear axle, so the design parameters will be different regarding offset. I had previously checked my manual for tread settings, but since the OEM rims are almost perfectly centered, there's no change from narrow to wide position to speak of (.3" to be exact). The are not the adjustable type rims either. They are welded, so only wide or narrow settings are available. Plus, these are both lug centric and hub centric. My original rims are hub centric only. Since the fronts are OEM, they aren't an issue, just the rears that I am wondering about.

 

[paulfun9]

I don't see any problems with using them. The offset created isn't that much to create any extra stress that the machine isn't already designed to handle.

 

[dieselcrawler]

I think you will be fine... you said your outside measurement was only 1.5" wider... minimal change.

My 3005 was only about 60" wide at its widest setting... I live in the hills of West Virginia so wider is better. I made spacers to fit between the center dish and the outter rim. In the picture I have the spacers on the right side, but not the left, for comparison. I am willing to take any accelerated wheel bearing wear if it helps keep the rubber side on the dirt.

 

[RG1]

Well, I've run into another snag, and it is something JD does all too often. The lug bolts that are correct for these 955 rims are American std thread/size with taper for the lug centric mounting system of these rims, but my 4115 axle flange bolts are metric and flat head for hub centric mounting. No auto parts store (and there are a couple really good ones here) has them in metric of the correct size and with the tapered head, and neither does any JD dealer. One told me that he was looking at JD's actual chart for all their lug hardware, and nothing would work that was long enough.

Now I'm at a stand still. anyone know of a place that might have them for a reasonable cost? Size needed is 12mm, 1.25mm pitch, at least 30 mm long with the tapered head like the original JD lug bolts for the 955 (JD part # JD22)

 

[vtsnowedin]

Well you have to understand that a 4115 is just a Yanmar painted JD green. Can't expect the Yanmar people to do everything the same as JD on the big boys.

 

[RG1]

Well you have to understand that a 4115 is just a Yanmar painted JD green. Can't expect the Yanmar people to do everything the same as JD on the big boys.

Yes, but it is a Yanmar built to JD's specs, not Yanmars. It would be nice for once if JD used the same basic components on similar sized equipment. I am by no means new to JD.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Yes, but it is a Yanmar built to JD's specs, not Yanmars. It would be nice for once if JD used the same basic components on similar sized equipment. I am by no means new to JD.

Oh I hear you. I've often thought there was no reason that say a fifteen inch Ford rim should not fit on a fifteen inch Chevy or Dodge car hub. No good reason to have that many variations for holding the same loads at the same speeds. Not going to happen though so we might as well deal with it and find something more important to get really wound up about.

 

[Looking4new]

You might try these people.

https://www.fastenal.com/web/home

 

[RG1]

Oh I hear you. I've often thought there was no reason that say a fifteen inch Ford rim should not fit on a fifteen inch Chevy or Dodge car hub. No good reason to have that many variations for holding the same loads at the same speeds. Not going to happen though so we might as well deal with it and find something more important to get really wound up about.

Wel, I feel I have a pretty good reason to get wound up. I'm into these for a fair amount of money between driving to pick them up and fuel, then finding I need some hard to find lug bolts. I'll get it worked out sonner or later though. I'm don't give up easy.

 

[RG1]

You might try these people.

https://www.fastenal.com/web/home

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately they don't have the odd size I need.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Could you possibly use a stud and tapered (standard type) lug nuts? Then the studs could be long enough for either wheel no matter the thickness. Could use flat side of lug nut if one wheel doesn't need tapered side, simply flip it over. Be sure to lock-tite the studs in.

 

[RG1]

Could you possibly use a stud and tapered (standard type) lug nuts? Then the studs could be long enough for either wheel no matter the thickness. Could use flat side of lug nut if one wheel doesn't need tapered side, simply flip it over. Be sure to lock-tite the studs in.

Yea, that's what I was thinking earlier today, and I think I am going to have to do it. Thread them in from the back and use a tapered lug nut on the face. Not ideal, but then, it's better than not being able to use them at all, and I really want to.

 

[PILOON]

There exists a thick tapered washer that adapts a std bolt to a taper rim. It also gets used to mount rims with the taper onto studs.
If I am correct small dozers use that system to drive the sprockets. Tapered and split as well to grab as it is tightened.
I have one left from when I owned a dozer.

 

[RG1]

There exists a thick tapered washer that adapts a std bolt to a taper rim. It also gets used to mount rims with the taper onto studs.
If I am correct small dozers use that system to drive the sprockets. Tapered and split as well to grab as it is tightened.
I have one left from when I owned a dozer.

Good info. I was wondering about that and have been googling all day trying to find something like that to no avail. Would you know the name or where to look or a link?

 

[RG1]

I found this pic earlier, but have no idea where to get something like this around here.

A-Series Racing Swiftune C.V Tapered Washer

 

[paulfun9]

Well, I've run into another snag, and it is something JD does all too often. The lug bolts that are correct for these 955 rims are American std thread/size with taper for the lug centric mounting system of these rims, but my 4115 axle flange bolts are metric and flat head for hub centric mounting. No auto parts store (and there are a couple really good ones here) has them in metric of the correct size and with the tapered head, and neither does any JD dealer. One told me that he was looking at JD's actual chart for all their lug hardware, and nothing would work that was long enough.

Now I'm at a stand still. anyone know of a place that might have them for a reasonable cost? Size needed is 12mm, 1.25mm pitch, at least 30 mm long with the tapered head like the original JD lug bolts for the 955 (JD part # JD22)

A good place that deals with industrial fasnters will be able to set you up in short order. I was going to point that out but figured you had already understood that you would need to find different lugs or drill/tap the hubs for a second det of lugs so that you can go back and forth from standard to the replacements you got.
Me personally if the holes line up I would install a lug kit and then be able to change back and forth with the simple use of different lug nuts. Most of the auto parts stores around here couldn't help with a project like this but the Fastenal place in Pottsville would have something in stock that would work. I also would look at MSC industrial supply as they have an online big book and are close to my daily travel route so picking stuff up isn't a big deal.

 

[RG1]

A good place that deals with industrial fasnters will be able to set you up in short order. I was going to point that out but figured you had already understood that you would need to find different lugs or drill/tap the hubs for a second det of lugs so that you can go back and forth from standard to the replacements you got.
Me personally if the holes line up I would install a lug kit and then be able to change back and forth with the simple use of different lug nuts. Most of the auto parts stores around here couldn't help with a project like this but the Fastenal place in Pottsville would have something in stock that would work. I also would look at MSC industrial supply as they have an online big book and are close to my daily travel route so picking stuff up isn't a big deal.

I did run through Fastenal's site today, but couldn't find what I need. Being Saturday, not much was open for me to call by the time I actually had a chance to do so. Monday should be a lot better.