Skidding Winches

[Rustyiron]

Gordon, how important do you think the wider flange on the bottom side of the sheave is?

 

[Gordon Gould]

Gordon, how important do you think the wider flange on the bottom side of the sheave is?

I'm not sure. I think when the hook or slider comes into the groove and jacks the cable out if there is enough downward force on the cable from the log then it should de-rail just like pulling a belt off a pulley or a chain off a sprocket. The small diameter will make it go easier.

Maybe the small diameter is all about controlling the direction of the de-rail to make sure the cable doesn't try to come up over the top of the sheave. The small diameter will roll the hook down when the cable is jacked out of the groove.

Just ideas - dont really know.

gg

 

[Rustyiron]

I fooled with this $25 HF snatch block today while it rained. This is where I'm at right now. Wondering about the de-railing mech.

 

[Jim Timber]

If the hook doesn't have a wider flange to bump it, the edge of the pully will take the hit on both sides. You want the sheave spit free before the hook applies pressure to it.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I fooled with this $25 HF snatch block today while it rained. This is where I'm at right now. Wondering about the de-railing mech.

Looks like if you take the two piece sheave you've made and flop it over so the small diameter is to the outside - away from the half shell, you should be good to go. (Probably your plan)

Just ?? need a finger to hold the cable when it is slack and that will get pushed out when the hook hits it. I see space is tight. Maybe something that folds or pivots down instead of a rotating finger. ???

Looks good to me so far.

 

[Rustyiron]

That sheave (HF) is aluminum and I'm afraid that when the cable rides over the edge when "self releasing", it will damage the sheave. I added that 3/8" plate to protect the edge (during de-railing) and had planned on leaving it in that config.?
I meant to ask, is there an up/down orientation when using your's?

 

[Gordon Gould]

Good morning

Yes - It will only work well or consistently with the open sheave down and the half shell with the connection to a tree up. That is why you need that finger - to hold the cable in place while the line is slack during set-up or if you let off during the pull. That is it's only function.

If you have the cable on top it tends to re-catch on the sheave after release as they fall.

I can see where aluminum would get chewed up pretty quick. But it still allows you to experiment and get something that works.

gg

 

[Rustyiron]

Thanks GG, so far not a big investment. Just have a hard time forking out $250 or so for something with 1 moving (small) part :laughing:

 

[Gordon Gould]

Thanks GG, so far not a big investment. Just have a hard time forking out $250 or so for something with 1 moving (small) part :laughing:

I agree with that. But the thing does weigh 12 lbs w/o the clevis and there is a lot of welding in it. Also a small volume market. It is heavier than I need for my winch but a big winch needs something pretty stout.

Edit: Remember the snatch block can see twice the winch pull force depending on the cable angle.

I was lucky and got mine for half that price. It was one of a group of prototype units that were made by someone and sold off. They probably thought they could get rich with $250 to $300 competition. That was two years ago and it seems they did not follow through with production. At least not under there own name.

gg

 

[motownbrowne]

I was lucky and got mine for half that price. It was one of a group of prototype units that were made by someone and sold off. They probably thought they could get rich with $250 to $300 competition. That was two years ago and it seems they did not follow through with production. At least not under there own name.

gg

Yeah, they're sold by someone else now. I got one of the new versions when they were offering a deep discount to forestry forum members. It's nice, but the bearing is now made in china instead of Europe, and they don't publish a working load limit. And they cost..... You guessed it: $259 (marked down from $289 for fall). Either way, I'm happy with mine for the price I got it for.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Doing my thing cutting fir today I came to a tree with a dead top. The top ran up thru some small branches of an adjacent maple. Normally it would not be a problem to get the tree to fall thru the small branches. But since the top was dead I elected to pull the tree down with my winch rather than work under the tree sawing when it started to move or worse hammering a wedge trying to make it move. I set up snatch block and took the slack from the cable.



Then I cut my notch and back cut. While cutting I kept a close eye on the kerf to make sure the tree wasn't moving. I left an extra heavy hinge for stability. That is why I got all the stump pull. Besides the dead top these fir I am cutting also have rotted bases which is why I am cutting them.



I pulled the tree down and as you can see the dead top fell right in the area I would normally be working. A winch is a real safety benefit on trees like this and I never hesitate to use it when there are dead limbs over head.



It is all limbed and the rot cut off the butt. If you look down the log you can see that the top is missing.



The log wasn't to long so I thought that maybe I could pull it out in one piece using the self release snatch block to turn it in the road. A video of that.

https://youtu.be/UEuEqGJraA4

The swing was bigger than I anticipated so it didn't work out. No problem - I went to plan B and took it in two pieces.

https://youtu.be/dtHGpcpA8OM

gg

 

[Rustyiron]

:thumbsup: good call! What is the cause of the stump rot Gordon?

 

[Mikejeakins]

Has anybody tried the winches that Hudson sells?

 

[Agvg]

Uniforest?

 

[Gordon Gould]

:thumbsup: good call! What is the cause of the stump rot Gordon?

It is a fungus. It is not like red rot, which can be anywhere along the stem, it always starts in the stump and works it's way up. Almost any balsam fir tree over 50 or 60 years old on my place has it. It is slower moving in trees with good growing conditions so balsam can be a productive lumber tree if you can afford the labor intensiveness involved with harvest. If you don't cut them you get a mess of blow downs.

gg

 

[CobyRupert]

Nice pics Gordon!

 

[KiwiBro]

Has anybody tried the winches that Hudson sells?

yes. Still have a uniforest from them. Many hassle free years of use.

 

[Grandad4]

Has anybody tried the winches that Hudson sells?

I had one for several years. It was a good unit that worked hard and never gave any trouble. I liked that it came with plenty of cable on the drum... 250 ft., I think. Could pull logs from about anywhere without getting the tractor far off the trail. Only sold it because it was no longer needed.

Winches are pricey attachments but worth every penny if you're working with trees and logs.

 

[bitternut]

Gordon, since you have a lot of stump rot I suggest that you set up your notch on the outer edge of the tree and then bore cut to finish up the hinge. That way you are sure of what you have for hinge wood. A hinge in the middle of the stump is pretty weak when placed in the middle of a rotten stump. All the live wood is on the outer circumference. I learned that in GOL training cutting large hollow beach trees.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Gordon, since you have a lot of stump rot I suggest that you set up your notch on the outer edge of the tree and then bore cut to finish up the hinge. That way you are sure of what you have for hinge wood. A hinge in the middle of the stump is pretty weak when placed in the middle of a rotten stump. All the live wood is on the outer circumference. I learned that in GOL training cutting large hollow beach trees.

Thank you for the good suggestion. That is a very good method to use when cutting a hollow tree that you want to lay in it's natural lean. But no one way works for all trees. And many ways may work for any one tree. This was my thinking on that particular tree - it had some back lean which the winch cable was holding during my cut and I intended to eventually pull the tree over with the winch. I did not use a bore cut for the back cut but if I had the result would be the same. That is, when the trigger was cut the tree would not fall because of the back lean. In addition, all of the branches were heavily on one side of the tree which is the same as side lean. So my biggest concern was keeping the tree from going over sideways. I elected to make a thick hinge in the wide part of the tree to give me maximum side support. Even though the center was rotten I had good holding wood directly behind the side lean to hold it.

If you look at the fourth picture down, where I have rolled the rotted butt log pieces that I cut off 180 degrees you get a good view of the notch cut. It is right on top. You can see that even if I made a tiny notch with little depth it would not give me any more holding wood in the hinge than the way I cut it. And being in the narrow part of the tree and in front of the side lean there would be much less support for the side lean I was concerned about.

Like I said there is nothing wrong with your suggestion it is just hard to see the whole story in a few pictures.

gg