Sharing Implements between tractor and SS

Hilbilly · Apr 3, 2015

I just picked up a used skidsteer and want to use my grapple on both the tractor and the SS. Before I started getting the hydraulic lines coordinated I realized there is bigger issue to deal with. The hydraulic fluid! I use Case Hy-trans ultra in my tractor, as that is what my dealer recommends. The seller of the SS said he uses AW 46 for hydraulic fluid in the SS and there is no way I want that in my tractor.

So the question is; can I use the Hy-trans ultra in the SS hydraulic system?

J_J · Apr 3, 2015

MY Case 1845c skidsteer can use HY-Trans or 10W-40 with a qt of case additives.

Hilbilly · Apr 3, 2015

Thanks JJ. Now I have to wait for the dealer to open so I can get some Hy Trans.

Xfaxman · Apr 3, 2015

What brand and model SS?

DT86 · Apr 3, 2015

I've never been too worried about swapping spit with other machines, as long as they're not contaminated with water. Maybe I've just been lucky but no problems to date.

This includes... loaning my grapple to a guy with a New Holland skid steer, sharing hay equipment with a uncle who has a Deere tractor, renting a no-till drill that God only knows who had last and using other equipment that normally runs with New Holland fluid.

J_J · Apr 3, 2015

If anyone is that concerned with mixing fluid, just put the OUT hose from the implement i a bucket and run about two gal through it.

Than reconnect and do your business.

Hilbilly · Apr 3, 2015

Xfaxman said:
What brand and model SS?

It's a 1999 Bobcat 763 with 3300 hrs on it. The hydraulic fluid was low and I called the previous owner who said he used 46 weight hydro fluid.

I've never been too worried about swapping spit with other machines, as long as they're not contaminated with water. Maybe I've just been lucky but no problems to date.

This includes... loaning my grapple to a guy with a New Holland skid steer, sharing hay equipment with a uncle who has a Deere tractor, renting a no-till drill that God only knows who had last and using other equipment that normally runs with New Holland fluid.

I like your description of "swapping spit".

I don't have any manuals for the SS and I have never owned one, so I don't know if the hydraulic fluid is just for the loader or if it is also used for the drive system and if it is used for the drive system, I'm not sure if it has the same requirements as my tractor with wet brakes and clutches. Not knowing anything about hydraulic fluids, I would rather use the recommended fluids for each machine than take a chance on some costly repairs. Given that you have not had any bad experiences, gives me a little more comfort about swapping spit but still not sure I want to take a chance with my tractor.

If anyone is that concerned with mixing fluid, just put the OUT hose from the implement i a bucket and run about two gal through it.

Than reconnect and do your business.

That's a great idea JJ and I might use that until I can get some comfort from dealers of the Bobcat and the Massey that swapping a little spit is no big deal. Judging by your comment, I'm guessing you're not concerned about getting the different fluids mixed. Is that right?

bdog · Apr 4, 2015

My JD skid steer uses 15-40 motor oil for the hydraulics. My previous case tractor used hydraulic fluid. I switched my post hole digger between the two with no problems. I wouldn't worry about it. People with bigger operations and lots of different equipment do this all the time.

SSdoxie · Apr 5, 2015

The 763 SS will work just fine with Hy-tran. The major difference in AW46 (any hydraulic/hydrostatic fluid) vs a Universal Tractor Fluid for use woth wet disc brakes is AW46 has additives to improve lubrication and seal softening agents. These additives will soften the disc brake material and extra lubrication so eventually brakes will need service/repair.
How much cross mising would occur and become a problem depends on how often you would swap grapple to each machine and what fluid capacity of the tractor is.
If you wish to chage fluid in the SS first drain reservoir with lift arms fully down and refill the Hy-tran. Run/drive SS for about 5 minutes cycling lift and bucket cylinders several times then drain reservoir again and refill again. The reservoir holds approxiamately 50% of the entire system volume so you would want to do this at least twice, maybe more.

My brother owns 2 IH tractors, 2 New Holland tractors, and Bobcat S250. For simplicty he runs Hy-tran in all of them with no problems.

Xfaxman · Apr 5, 2015

What about one machine with motor oil and the Toolcat with Bobcat hydraulic fluid?

Hilbilly · Apr 5, 2015

SSdoxie said:
The 763 SS will work just fine with Hy-tran. The major difference in AW46 (any hydraulic/hydrostatic fluid) vs a Universal Tractor Fluid for use woth wet disc brakes is AW46 has additives to improve lubrication and seal softening agents. These additives will soften the disc brake material and extra lubrication so eventually brakes will need service/repair.
How much cross mising would occur and become a problem depends on how often you would swap grapple to each machine and what fluid capacity of the tractor is.
If you wish to chage fluid in the SS first drain reservoir with lift arms fully down and refill the Hy-tran. Run/drive SS for about 5 minutes cycling lift and bucket cylinders several times then drain reservoir again and refill again. The reservoir holds approxiamately 50% of the entire system volume so you would want to do this at least twice, maybe more.

My brother owns 2 IH tractors, 2 New Holland tractors, and Bobcat S250. For simplicty he runs Hy-tran in all of them with no problems.

Wow!! At $90 for 5gal of the Hytran it would cost a lot to change the fluids in the skidsteer. Especially if I drain it a few times. I think I will just decide which machine I want to use the grapple on and leave it there until I can come up with something I'm comfortable with, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

When I mounted the grapple on the SS yesterday I noticed the hydraulic fluid that was coming from the QC appeared to be motor oil not AW 46. Now I have a mixed bag of fluids in the SS.

The reason I'm concerned about using the wrong fluid, stems from an incident I had years ago with my motorcycle. I wanted to save a few $ on my oil change so instead of using Suzuki 10w 40 I got some 10w 40 from the auto place that had the classification rating and used it. I got less than a mile from our house before I noticed the clutches were slipping. Turned around and went home to change the oil. Put the Suzuki oil in and had to run a couple of back to back oil changes to get it working right. I learned a valuable lesson that day, which is why I am concerned now. I don't want to take any chances with my tractor because any repair bill on that will be very expensive!!!!!

farmer2009 · Apr 5, 2015

Talk to your dealer about switching from hi-tran to a 424 fluid. My case dealer says they are interchangeable. The 424 is about half the cost of hy-tran. We switched the dozer over about 5 years ago.

George2615 · Apr 5, 2015

I think the fluid issue has been answered. My question pertains to using your grapple on both the tractor and SS. Is the GPM flow the same / compatible for the SS and tractor. Most SS are hi flow and tractors have a lower flow. Will that damage the grapple running it on the SS. Will you have to install in line restrictors to safely use it on the SS. Maybe JJ can answer or offer his opinion on this.

J_J · Apr 5, 2015

Some skid steer's have a low flow and a high flow.

If so, just reduce the engine rpm for slow GPM to the grapple or use a needle valve in the circuit. A specific needle valve can make the grapply close slow, and open fast.

High flow will make the grapple much faster.

Xfaxman · Apr 5, 2015

I think the pressure difference would be more of a concern.

When I put the old 3 point cedar tree cutter on the V417, I put a pressure limiter on the shear.

truckdiagnostics · Apr 5, 2015

To answer your question on how the hydraulics works, you have a single reservoir, two drive and an auxiliary pump. Basically all three of those pumps piggy back off each other, in a line. They are tucked in behind the engine when you are looking at it from the back. So, with the back door open on the left there is a drive belt that goes from the engine to the first drive pump in the line. So what that means if you blow a line to your grapple it is draining the reservoir for your drive pumps which would be bad. I make it a policy to always have 5 gals of hydraulic oil on hand. That way if I blow a line I can top it off enough to get it out of the hole I dug.

Hilbilly · Apr 5, 2015

Wow, lots of new valuable info here. I tried hooking up a pressure reducing cross over valve since my supplier didn't have a pressure reducing valve. I couldn't get the pressure to drop so must have had something wrong. The pressures were reading 2500 to 2700 psi and the cylinder is rated for 2500 max continuous so I said to heck with it and just hooked it up directly. If the cylinder gets wrecked I'll get a new one rated for 3000 psi. From the info I can find on the Net this has a low flow auxiliary rated at 15 gpm and I didn't think that would be an issue. I was more concerned about the pressure but now that I've used it on the SS I think the flow may be an issue too. The lid snaps open and shut, so I just give it a short tap on the control lever to move the lid. Maybe a needle valve would be the answer or a pressure reducing valve and a needle valve. This is getting a little more complex.

J_J · Apr 6, 2015

Needle valve or flow restrictor.

Maybe 1/4 in cyl hose.

truckdiagnostics · Apr 6, 2015

Agree with J.J. 1/4" orfice should do it. Consider the below on the return side.

Should help catch dirt from grapple and from one machine to the other. It is a precaution I do believe your aux fluid on the SS goes through filter before going to tank.
J.J. posted here a while back
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/137429-inline-hydraulic-filter.html