Set my FEL expectations

[nate0918]

Noob to tractors here. I would like something to move materials around the house as well as a 3acre lot I have. I only have access to the 3 acres with something 4ft wide max. Previously, I've used my uncles bobcat 632 that weighs 4k to move loose dirt around. I was very underwhelmed by its performance. I could barely fill a half a bucket of loose dirt before it didn't have the weight to push into the pile to make the scoop. Wheels were spinning on hard clay ground but couldn't push in to the dirt to take a bite. Lifting no problem. If I'm looking at a garden tractor with an FOL 4ft wide range, I'm envisioning only being able to scoop soft mulch or leaves. How far off base am I?

 

[bearthebruce]

Not that I am an experienced operator, but, watching the guys who are I learned a valuable lesson: loosen the pile before trying to scoop. That is, climb up toward the top and back drag down the pile to loosen. Then pick some up and move it.

Maybe you are doing that already. But I found I could get a full bucket on my 33hp Massey if I would take the time to "loosen up". Seems I have been really tightly wound lately!

 

[Eagle1]

Lot more than ramming into pile and lifting to get a full load. Lift, curl and drive have to come together just right to make it happen and then not tip the load onto your own head. In ANY machinery there is a lot of finesse to get the most out of the machine.

 

[Jchonline]

Noob to tractors here. I would like something to move materials around the house as well as a 3acre lot I have. I only have access to the 3 acres with something 4ft wide max. Previously, I've used my uncles bobcat 632 that weighs 4k to move loose dirt around. I was very underwhelmed by its performance. I could barely fill a half a bucket of loose dirt before it didn't have the weight to push into the pile to make the scoop. Wheels were spinning on hard clay ground but couldn't push in to the dirt to take a bite. Lifting no problem. If I'm looking at a garden tractor with an FOL 4ft wide range, I'm envisioning only being able to scoop soft mulch or leaves. How far off base am I?

Operator error most likely. You just dont know how to fill a bucket from a dirt pile! No worry we can help.

As you drive in, you have to lift up on the arms to help break the pile up. Keep moving forward as you lift at the same time.

If a 2 ton bobcat doesnt lift what you want...you are going to be sorely disappointed with a small tractor!

 

[ericm979]

Back dragging with the bucket curled all the way down can bend the curl cylinders. Be very careful when doing it. A number of people here have bent theirs doing it.

I find that a combination of driving forwards, lifting the bucket and curling the bucket back is what works for getting a full bucket. It takes practice. Construction guys make it look easy because they have done it a few thousand times.

 

[WranglerX]

This You Tube video pretty much addresses all the things you need to know..... One thing it does not cover may be a "bucket level indicator", which may be subject of another message thread, operator in this video just used his experience/skill to "level" bucket...

 

[airbiscuit]

A tooth bar on the bucket will do wonders for the ability to pierce the pile.

 

[kenmbz]

I have Diabase (iron chunk rock) here ans second the toothbar.
Without the dirt here would just stop the tractor while trying to scoop and not move when back blading.
With toothbar, I could drive into the dirt and scoop without issue.

 

[nate0918]

I will be the first to admit that I'm sure it's mostly operator error. I will say that the pile was very loose, I had just made the piles with a mini excavator and was moving the dirt from point A to B. I was under the naïve impression that since the dirt was loose that I could just drive the bucket right in. I did eventually try to curl the bucket while raising it at the same time I was driving into the pile. I was still surprised at the required amount of effort to get a full bucket. So, with an FEL on a small garden tractor I should reasonably be able to scoop materials like gravel and dirt? It sounds like a stupid question when I typed it out but I just want to make sure that it's a practical implement for a smaller machine. I'm a sucker for stuff that looks useful only to find out that it's not quite what I was anticipating. I guess it's a matter of scale, bucket size vs tractor weight.

 

[Jstpssng]

Consider that a yard of loam, gravel or compost can weigh 2500 pounds or more, depending on moisture content. The smallest Kioti currently made,for example is a CK2510. It has 1840 LB breaking point rating yet weighs in at 3060 lbs, including the loader.

 

[airbiscuit]

I'll take another pass at the advantages of a tooth bucket. I had a skid steer with 2 buckets. I did a lot of digging in sod and roots. My 32hp skidsteer would stall or spin with the smooth bucket. When I put the tooth bucket on, it was like having 25% more horsepower and traction. No issues at all. It was also handier for backdragging, tearring up clods, etc. I never put the smooth bucket back on. If you don't have a tooth bucket, buy a tooth bar (piranha bar).

 

[MossRoad]

I edited the title of this thread from FOL to FEL.
MR

 

[MossRoad]

I am also a fan of the toothbar.

I have two buckets. One is 48" wide and has a straight blade across the front. The other is 42" wide with 7 teeth. The flat blade is good for very loose material like small gravel, sand, soil, scraping off a flat surface like concrete or a trailer deck, or acting like a power wheelbarrow. It's also good for back-dragging and leveling. But it has a lot of trouble pushing into hard materials, like a lawn, large pile of rocks, undisturbed soil. The tooth bar works a lot better for that.

Think about it. If your tractor can push with X amount of force it's spread across the entire 48" of blade. Now concentrate that same force on 7 small points, let's say an inch across each. 48/7 is about 7. You're gonna get all that pushing force concentrated on 7" total VS 48" total.

Make sense?

Here's a picture of the two buckets. Click to enlarge.

 

[MossRoad]

I will be the first to admit that I'm sure it's mostly operator error. I will say that the pile was very loose, I had just made the piles with a mini excavator and was moving the dirt from point A to B. I was under the naïve impression that since the dirt was loose that I could just drive the bucket right in. I did eventually try to curl the bucket while raising it at the same time I was driving into the pile. I was still surprised at the required amount of effort to get a full bucket. So, with an FEL on a small garden tractor I should reasonably be able to scoop materials like gravel and dirt? It sounds like a stupid question when I typed it out but I just want to make sure that it's a practical implement for a smaller machine. I'm a sucker for stuff that looks useful only to find out that it's not quite what I was anticipating. I guess it's a matter of scale, bucket size vs tractor weight.

Look at it this way, even a small machine with a bucket beats a shovel and wheelbarrow.

 

[Eagle1]

With some practice I'd say any machine designed to have a FEL can pick up full buckets. Now the BX likes 4x4 to really scoop well, and sometimes even low range.
Either way I take my self loading and dumping bucket over any wheel barrow any day ending in Y

 

[etpm]

Noob to tractors here. I would like something to move materials around the house as well as a 3acre lot I have. I only have access to the 3 acres with something 4ft wide max. Previously, I've used my uncles bobcat 632 that weighs 4k to move loose dirt around. I was very underwhelmed by its performance. I could barely fill a half a bucket of loose dirt before it didn't have the weight to push into the pile to make the scoop. Wheels were spinning on hard clay ground but couldn't push in to the dirt to take a bite. Lifting no problem. If I'm looking at a garden tractor with an FOL 4ft wide range, I'm envisioning only being able to scoop soft mulch or leaves. How far off base am I?

What are you calling a garden tractor? My tractor is a Yanmar YM2310 and is not considered to be a garden tractor. It is 2 wheel drive and weighs about 2100 lbs with the aftermarket FEL. The bucket is 4 feet wide. If I want to fill the bucket in one shot the material must be loose and I take a run at it. Not excessive speed but fast enough that the inertia helps. I still need weight on the 3 point hitch to have sufficient traction. I can't imagine a garden tractor will be able to scoop much dirt. Weight really helps with traction. A garden tractor would be pretty light. Still, even if you fill the bucket on a garden tractor with a shovel, drive somewhere, and then dump the load you will be be moving much more stuff and moving it faster than you could with a shovel and a wheelbarrow.
Eric