self leveling loader

[double g]

new to tractor buying we are looking at a j d 4520 with front end loader.. understand there is a front end loader that is self leveling extra ofcourse.. is it worth it? or for the hobby farmer just the 4000x? all coments welcome...

 

[kennyd]

Not only is the CX self leveling, I think the lift capacity is much great also. I think it's worth it.

 

[MJPetersen]

For one thing you are MUCH less likely to spill stuff off the back of the bucket onto the hood of your tractor. And usually the lift capacity is greater.

I know I am one to talk as I do not even have a loader for my little tractor, but I have been studying them for several months and there are a bunch of loaders available here but all are a bit large for a small Yanmar. I am considering making one for myself, and am seriously considering the self-leveling. That seems to be most of the examples that I can find here coming out of France, Sweden, and Germany. I even found one built here in Poland that copies a design from France.

Mike

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Not sure about John Deere, but I have a hydraulic self leveling loader on my 7520 Mahindra and while it is nice to have, I wouldn't get it again. It was an extra $900 for me back in Dec 04 and I have not gotten my $$$ worth out of it and don't see myself getting my $$$ worth ever. I suppose that if you were using your tractor for unloading trucks and moving pallets of material all the time then it would be a good option to have, but for the occasional unloading that I do, it was $$$ poorly spent. One other thing, by chance is the self leveling feature on the John Deere able to be turned off and on? Mine is on all the time and was a hindrance for a while until I got used to always curling the bucket to keep the dirt in. I believe that M series Kubotas have an on-off switch for theirs. I would be happier with mine if it had on-off capabilities.

Good luck with your decision, oh by the way, what does Deere charge for their self leveling feature?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Not only is the CX self leveling, I think the lift capacity is much great also. I think it's worth it.

That is interesting that it would have a higher lift rating. Why do you think that it would increase? I was told by my loader manufacture that the lift capacity actually went down 8-10% with their self leveling option. When I asked why it would be lower, he didn't know, just said that that was how it was.

 

[joes_427_vette]

I would question the greater lift capacity myself. The self leveling has nothing to do with the lift cylinders and only acts as a fluid balance in the system with the bucket cylinders. I have used it in two case 580s and thought it was a helpful feature. Wouldn't mind adding this feature on my NH 55 depending on the cost.

 

[Glowplug]

Not sure about John Deere, but I have a hydraulic self leveling loader on my 7520 Mahindra and while it is nice to have, I wouldn't get it again. It was an extra $900 for me back in Dec 04 and I have not gotten my $$$ worth out of it and don't see myself getting my $$$ worth ever. I suppose that if you were using your tractor for unloading trucks and moving pallets of material all the time then it would be a good option to have, but for the occasional unloading that I do, it was $$$ poorly spent. One other thing, by chance is the self leveling feature on the John Deere able to be turned off and on? Mine is on all the time and was a hindrance for a while until I got used to always curling the bucket to keep the dirt in. I believe that M series Kubotas have an on-off switch for theirs. I would be happier with mine if it had on-off capabilities.

Good luck with your decision, oh by the way, what does Deere charge for their self leveling feature?

The Kubota M-series self-levelling loaders are capable of being turned on and off. They are helpful if you're using your loader like a forklift, loading pallets and such. But if it weren't able to be turned off, I wouldn't have one. If you're going to be using the loader for material handling, digging and such then I don't think you'd benefit from self-levelling, and it would probably be detrimental to you. Others may have completely different opinions though. FWW, I keep my self-levelling feature off 99% of the time.

 

[kennyd]

Just to clarify what I said:

I think the lift capacity is much great also

Obviously, I may be wrong...

This self leveling on the JD loader is mechanical though, so you can't "turn it off".

 

[bjcsc]

My tractor was originally delivered with the 542 MSL (mechanical self-leveling) loader. It was a nightmare. I don't know about other models, but the 542 MSL won't dump the bucket fully until it is near full height. It won't rotate the top of an open 4in1 to the ground for backfilling. The stroke on the dump/curl cylinders is very short in order to work with the MSL mechanism. My dealer ended up swapping mine out for a regular 542 once he realized it wouldn't dump. He said he talked to Deere about it and they knew it was a problem and that they were redesigning it. Maybe they have. Whatever you do, make sure the self-level does not come at the expense of dumping the bucket...

 

[double g]

thanks for all the input.. still wondering..

 

[Rara Avis]

My tractor was originally delivered with the 542 MSL (mechanical self-leveling) loader. It was a nightmare. I don't know about other models, but the 542 MSL won't dump the bucket fully until it is near full height. It won't rotate the top of an open 4in1 to the ground for backfilling. The stroke on the dump/curl cylinders is very short in order to work with the MSL mechanism. My dealer ended up swapping mine out for a regular 542 once he realized it wouldn't dump. He said he talked to Deere about it and they knew it was a problem and that they were redesigning it. Maybe they have. Whatever you do, make sure the self-level does not come at the expense of dumping the bucket...

Thanks for the input...you definitely won't hear this from Deere...

 

[AndyMA]

I have MSL on my New Holland TN75D. Great for forks, but I'm not crazy about it for bucket work as I can't roll back the bucket the way I ususally do when it's full.

Andy

 

[Glowplug]

The original loader I was looking at when I was tractor shopping was a 3rd party loader. It was a Quicke to be exact. It had a mechanical parallel linkage. I was on the verge of getting that. Then I decided to get a Kubota loader equipped with a hydraulic self-levelling system. I like it because it's not permanent. I can flip it on when using forks and flip it off when digging and such. Now that I've got a few hours under my belt I'm glad I didn't get one with a full-time mechanical parallel linkage. If I had to choose between a loader with a full-time self-levelling mechanism and one without I'd choose the loader without. I just think it performs better for digging, scooping, etc. I haven't checked but I would imagine when I have my hydraulic self-levelling engaged that my lifting capacity is less. It comes in really handy when using the loader to move pallets. My best advice would be to take into consideration what you are going to be using your loader for. If using it for material handling and digging then I would say most seriously consider one without a self-levelling mechanism. If you are going to be mostly lifting and moving pallets then consider one with a self-levelling system. Of course if you don't know then get a Kubota M-series with a hydraulic self-levelling system that can be turned on and off!!

 

[Westendorf-RR]

GLowplug is exactly right, you must consider your material handling applications. That is the best way to determine what you need. The self-leveling option will add approximately 20% more lift capacity to a loader. It is due to the added linkage. It adds a mechanical advantage, very similar to how using a lever in other applications adds more strength. Most self-leveling features (except the hydraulic version) will add 8" to 12" to the height of the loader causing visibility issues. Make sure you see the loader model on your specific tractor before deciding. Look for a low-profile fit if you choose the self-leveling option. See attached photo.

We have had people who love the SL feature and won't buy anything else, and we have had people who dislike it. If you are doing a lot of repetitive work like unloading trucks or stacking bales, it is a great upgrade. If you are going to do general farm yard use, handle loose fine materials or dirt work, you won't miss it. It is soley an operators preference based on materials he intends to handle.

Do you have the newer compact tractor model 4520 or the early 90's 4520 tractor model?

 

[Glowplug]

If you are doing a lot of repetitive work like unloading trucks or stacking bales, it is a great upgrade. If you are going to do general farm yard use, handle loose fine materials or dirt work, you won't miss it. It is soley an operators preference based on materials he intends to handle.

What he said.
The only thing I would have to add is that if you are going to handle loose fine materials or dirt work you may not only not miss it (SL) but you may find it a cumbersome hindrance.

 

[MJPetersen]

Double G,

There are not only loaders that are SL but also that have extended reach. Frey Industries patented a loader that has a mechanical linkage for leveling and for reaching higher. They call them the High Reach (HR) loaders. They have patented several different linkage arrangements to accomplish this.

In my opinion they look very interesting. Not that I have any experience with them or have talked to anybody about them. Just part of my fascination with mechanical things.

The following has some comparison pictures of the new HR models.

Frey Loaders :: News Gallery

The following pdf is of the patent and the last 10 pages have pictures of how they accomplished the HR. It is a 2 meg document of 50 pages. I did not want you ro be surprised when you clicked on it.

http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/IPDL-IMAGES/PATENTSCOPE/67/44/c1/0044c1.pdf

Mike

 

[D7E]

This surprises me that it is still optional on small loaders ..The big loaders on farm tractors have been standard "self levelling" since the "90's" (depending on brand ) ? , But all the good ones are ?

 

[bjcsc]

What he said.
The only thing I would have to add is that if you are going to handle loose fine materials or dirt work you may not only not miss it (SL) but you may find it a cumbersome hindrance.

And the only thing I would add to that is you will find it a cumbersome hindrance vs. may if it is designed anything like the 542 MSL...

I found some pictures I took when I went through this ordeal with my loader.

This one is a comparison on the 542 (on the left) and my 542 MSL on the right. The green lines are the distance from the cross tube to the seam on the curl/dump cylinders, and the red lines are the resulting strokes:

This one shows the bucket fully curled and the star marks the weld or top of the cylinder to show the stroke:

This one shows the 4in1 open and fully dumped:

And finally this one shows how far from the dump stop the linkage is when at full dump as the MSL does not have the stroke to dump the bucket:

If all you intend to do is move hay or pallets, the MSL might be nice. But, it is no good for a bucket, grapple, 4in1, or dirt work. Once mine was replaced with the regular 542, I found that since my loader valve is infinitely variable between positions, once I find just the right spot I can make it move just like it is self-leveling (and I can dump the bucket!). Be sure to check it out...

 

[Glowplug]

MJPetersen--I did not read the 50 page document on the patent technology so I may be totally off base on this. But I would be concerned that those high reach loaders would have less lifting capacity due to the mechanics of it all. My Kubota LA1153 loader has two separate fulcrum positions you can place the boom cylinders. The upper fulcrum allows for more lifting height but you lose lifting power. The bottom fulcrum position allows for more power but you lose a few inches height. I always have mine in the more power position!! I guess I may be kinda lucky since I have a self-levelling mechanism I can turn on and off and have two fulcrum positions for the boom cylinders depending on if I want more power or more height.

 

[MJPetersen]

I did not read the 50 page document on the patent technology so I may be totally off base on this. But I would be concerned that those high reach loaders would have less lifting capacity due to the mechanics of it all.

Confession-- I did not read it either--I just looked at the pics at the end I read pictures very well!!

I did go check and the breakout force for the regular loader is 5665 lbs and the the equivalent hp (75-100) range HR was 5100 lbs. So you are right in that aspect. However, the weight rating at full height is reversed. The regular is 3200 and the HR is 3800. I think another disadvantage would be the number of pins increasing the number of wear points.

I do like that fact that lowered they tuck in very close to the tractor, but raised they can still reach up. Plus the path of bucket when lifting puts the most useful reach at a good working height. The maximum reach on a regular loader is about hood height (the pivot for the main arms), but for the HR the max reach is about 2x hood height. That to me is very interesting and I can see how that would be an advantage. I have always been fascinated by the boom of the New Holland Skidsteers which continue to reach out as they go up. Well it is interesting to me anyway!

There is no doubt about it, that you have a very "cool" loader. It is interesting that you have the ability to change the pwer by moving the cyl connecting point. I can see how that would work. That hyd SL is interesting too, but too complicated for a home build project that I am contemplating.


Mike