SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains

[kokopelli2]

guys please dont think that chains wont "fly" all over. dont forget about shrapnel thats
basically what chain parts are then they snap. i have seen chain chunks go through cars
when they snaped. just keep that in mind.

 

[MChalkley]

Gordon - Nice post. Your comments pretty much sum up my postion nicely. I use chains (never rope) to lift stuff with the loader all the time, and I'll continue to do so. FWIW, I do not consider this part of the 10% of the time it's ok to not wear my seatbelt - it's something I think is inherently "risky", as is doing anything else with the loader, so the seatbelt stays on. When I go to work on a major project, I usually end up carrying the auger, tiller, box scraper, blade, pallet forks, and, sometimes, the backhoe. This requires two trailers, and the other trailer always gets loaded by picking the implements up with chains using the loader.

As far as dragging stuff from the loader goes, it's just as safe as, if not safer than, using the drawbar as long as the bucket is kept close to the ground, the chain is run under the bucket, and the loader is not left in float position.

MarkC

 

[gordon]

Thanks Mark, just think how much more trouble or work you would have to go through just to unload and load your trailer for a job if you didn't use the loader and chains. That is unless your trailer was long enough to stack them all on and drive them off one at a time with the freedom hitch.

But still I think about all the loader and chain work I do moving logs and loading-unloading of attachments. Quite abit
Gordon

 

[glennmac]

A few points.

1. The important thing we are doing on this thread is identifying and clarifying the risk involved.

2. Another important thing is to identify the precautions to take in order to reduce the risk to the level where it becomes a reasonable risk to take under the circumstances.

3. Professional tractorpeople--like policemen, firemen, soldiers, race car drivers and others in hazardous professions--take risks as an intrinsic part of their jobs. They get paid to engage in necessarily risky activities and they voluntarily undertake them.

4. The weekend digger, particularly the novice, is in a different situation. His reasonable risk level may be much different, and he should not be misled into thinking he can safely engage in the same activities as the pros.

5. Everything a lawyer does, including all the things that some people may resent, are done only because a non-lawyer (the client) has hired and payed him to do exactly that.

Glenn

 

[Harv]

Glenn -

Your one act play was some of the best reading I've seen on this board. You sure you're not a litigator? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

It seems like the real meat of the post was between the lines, though. Makes me feel kind of silly for still wanting to use chain hooks on my bucket. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I guess it's kind of like the presidential debates -- many of us have already made up our minds about which way we're going to go, and all this chatter doesn't seem to be persuading anybody one way or the other. I read the 37 precautions in my loader manual and it is odd that I go along with only 35 of them. Besides the chain lift thing, I've already covered a warning label on the fender by bolting a toolbox on top of it. On a positive note, that label warned about tipping the tractor and I am going to mount a tiltmeter on the side of that toolbox.

It is interesting that many of us feel somehow qualified to pass judgement on the safety rules, and that we are supposedly brighter than all those who have sustained injuries doing the very thing we have been warned not to do. Claiming "human nature" sounds like a bit of a cop-out, yet deep down that's what I'm doing myself.

I think we all break rules on a daily basis, driven by some misguided sense of superiority, but I have to admit this is the first time I've discussed it openly with as large a group as this board. If nothing else, it's got me thinking (and I hate when that happens.) /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Ian]

I've changed my tractor operating habits in several ways over the past few years. Why?
Tractorbynet itself mainly, and various links I've explored at the invitation of Tractorbynet contributors.
Specifically:

I no longer take kids for rides - no exceptions, no excuses.
(too many sad, preventable stories to count)

I shut down the tractor when anyone approaches. (people can do unpredictable things, slip into danger, etc.)

I allways look behind me whenever reversing - especially when I think I'm alone. (kids and animals move)

I am going to get a folding ROPS (I'd removed mine due to interference with trees)

Point being that I did become a safer owner/operator due to this forum making me think about issues I hadn't given enough thought to.

Now, the loader issue.

I thought I was doing enough by bracing the loader with a 4x4 whenever pressure washing the mower. I also figured that the warning labels were lawyer inspired, cover your corporate butt (like the McDonalds coffee warnings - "contents are hot"...save us from our own stupidity!) sort of warnings.

I'm going to have to give this some more thought. Problem is, those loaders are such handy lifting devices!

 

[TomG]

Two things, a tractor tale and a legal note: One, its not just inexperienced weekend farmers who do dumb things. Yesterday I saw a tractor at a large commercial construction site parked and nobody was around. The loader bucket was 7' off the ground. So I say to the building supply yard guy, where I was loading materials; 'Gee, the safety guys would sure get on that.' He says: 'Yep, we've really strict rules here for the fork lift.' He points at the lift with the forks on the ground. Sure hope the construction crew didn't leave the bucket up all night. It would be really great for some kids playing around to drop the bucket on one of their heads. I guess even pros have lapses.

About litigation: I believe the corporations really are protecting themselves against really obscure events (maybe not meteor showers). As I understand, liability awards are made on the basis of an ability to pay. Many lawyers nowadays 'shotgun,' which means naming absolutely everybody with any possible connection to an injury. The idea is to name one party that has some money. Governments and corporations end up paying for injuries even when their connections with the injuries are ridiculously obscure.

For example, A couple of years ago in Ontario, there was a party in a private apartment building. Lots of beer drinking. One guy poured beer over another's head and both tumbled down an outside stair well. They broke through the stair well and fell 30' to the ground. One person ended up with a lot of parts paralyzed, and will require lifetime care.

The damage award was $7 million, and the city paid the entire award. The ruling was that the city contributed 1% of the negligence in the way building permits and inspections were carried out, but the city was the only party that had significant money.

Sort of a Robin Hood idea of law I guess. Right or wrong? Depends on values I guess. Still, the judge was faced with little more than a kid who I don't think could even manage a wheel chair, all for a moment of horseplay. The kid now can live only with some really expensive professional care that is not provided by insurance or social services. So what can the judge do but follow common law precedent and go for a party with money. Right or wrong that's what happens, and that's a major reason for the seemingly ridiculous level of warning labels.

 

[WVBill]

This has been a great thread!

Tom's mention of "lapses" at commercial construction sites. I see it all the time after they've shut down for the day, they lift the air compressor (or whatever else) up about 20 feet in the air and let it dangle there over night. I guess so it won't get stolen. I suppose the weight is a lot less than the breaking strength of the crane's cable - just "gives me the willies" is all...


I was thinking about welding hooks to my loader bucket but now I'm not sure.

Talking about chain being safer than rope or strap... Hmm... anybody know how to tell when a chain is about to break so you can back off?

Bill

 

[W5FL]

Use 3/8 chain and your loader should not be able to come close to breaking it. That is why working load is normally set to 10-20% of ultimate (breaking)load.

 

[Bird]

I agree, Wen. I used 3/8" chain most of the time and don't even think about breaking it; don't believe a B2710 could. At least not unless I got a good running start./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[MChalkley]

Wen - So somebody besides me goes along with the theory that overkill is a good thing! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I'm as much of a nut about chain as I am a lot of other things - therefore, my chain of choice for pretty much everything is 3/8" G100 alloy, with a working load around 9,000 lbs and a breaking strength around 35,000. If I break that, I deserve what I get. Besides, it would sure make an interesting story, provided I live to tell about it. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

By the way, with all the talk about chains breaking and flying around, I thought I throw my experience in. I've seen chain break quite a few times (mostly while being pulled by a 'dozer) and I've never seen 3/8" grade 70 or better chain snap back with any appreciable force or travel more than 6 inches or so. I have seen smaller and/or cheaper chain snap back with enough force to do considerable damage, as has been reported by several other posters. But, if you use larger chain, and the good stuff, you're not going to break it in the first place, and if the unthinkable should happen, from my experience, it won't whip around or snap back dangerously. If anyone else's experience disagrees with mine, I'd sure like to know about it. Getting hit by a flying 3/8" chain could ruin your day.

MarkC

 

[W5FL]

Harv,

I remember one of the early OSHA agricultural bulletins stated that Fresh Wet Cow Manure was slippery. Wonder who needed to be told not to step in it? Wonder how much trouble they had attaching the warning decals to the cow?

 

[gerard]

Wen,
Beleive it or not I think that one came about when a man placed a ladder against the house early in the morning while the manure he placed a ladder foot on was frozen. As the morning warmed up the manure thawed, the ladder slipped and down he went. This was circulated for awhile as one of the ridiculous examples of our overly litigious society and reluctance to hold people accountable for their own actions.

 

[scruffy]

Ian, using that 4x4 for bracing your loader is like rolling dice in a crap game in Las Vegas! What type of wood is the 4x4 cut from? How is the grain? Any knots in it? Any cracks? How much does your bucket weigh (including frame)? What is the deadweight in other words.
The above questions are why a heavy grade steel pipe (not cast iron) is preferable, more so on both sides of the bucket, as well as blocking the tractor tires so there is no possibility of any roll to lose the effectiveness of the pipe bracing.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I use a 3/8 chain for everything. It is heavy and cumbersome and I think Mr. Atlas could pick up my L35 by the chain and spin it around with no chance of busting it.

Of course since Murphy still lives here, there's alway the chance of one bad link so I still assume the worst and act accordingly.

So far the 3/8 hasn't let me down.

 

[ejb]

I actually busted a section of 3/8 chain not that long ago, didn't even pull it that hard...what had happened was a few weeks earlier I had pinched one of the links of the chain in between my FEL bucket and the FEL frame and it put a slight kink/nick into the chain (just enough to weaken it I guess)...didn't think much about it until it snapped when I was pulling over a tree....nobody was hurt luckily.

 

[Harv]

Wen -

You may have opened the door for other amusing warning labels here. The slippery cow patty one is a hoot. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I'll keep my eye out for others, but offhand the best one I saw was on some prescription pills I received a few years ago which included this on the label:

"CAUTION: Chew orally before swallowing."

You don't even want to think about the alternatives...

 

[gordon]

1. I would never say that lifting with a chain isn't dangerous. anything you do with the front end loader involves risk not just chain lifting. When you use the front end loader you change the center of gravity of the tractor. So other issues also come into play when discussing this. Ballast, ground level, bumps etc and also ground speed. To name a few.

2.Alot of this comes from experience and the knowledge of using a tractor. Also what to expect from a given action when using the tractor and how to react when an action goes bad.

3.Sad but true even the pro's make mistakes or have things go bad when working. One can never be to safe it only takes a second for a simple chore to get out of hand.

4.Some Weekend tractor people are actually at more of a risk than a professional---Why? The most dangerous thing in the world---lack of knowledge. But what is the best way to overcome that---seat time.

5.I'm very relieved to hear that the lawyers never try to talk a client into a lawsuit or give the client the belief that you could or have the fair right to sue at the drop of a hat----sorry my mistake.

Gordon

 

[gordon]

The time I broke out my rear window on the tractor I was using a chain that was too light for the job and what was even worse I had no idea what the breaking strengh of the chain was.-----live and learn-----

After that no more junk-cheap-low dollar chains for me. The good thing was only two things were hurt that day, my ego and my rear window. 3/8 chain is all I use now and have had no problems since. Knock on wood.
Gordon

 

[Rowski]

Question about dragging stuff with loader. Is it possible to pull the loader assembly off the tractor by hard pulling. Example: instead of pulling out stumps (2"-4") using the draw bar, pull with the loader as you mentioned by hooking the chain under the bucket. I know there are a lot of variables to factor (traction, weight, type of tree, etc.) but generally speaking.

Derek